5 hours ago, Punning Pundit said:

There is, quite simply, an enormous difference between saying "when you do X-Wing 2.0, you need to include the Force, as that's a key component of Star Wars" and saying "make sure the stuff from the new movies is significantly better than the stuff from the original movies."

I think you're underestimating several things. Firstly: Disney _loves_ that they have decades worth of Star Wars nostalgia to draw from. _Loves_ it. That's why the Rogue One and Solo movies got greenlit in the first place.

Secondly: the current faces of Star Wars, from Disney's POV, are Ahsoka Tano and Ezra Bridger. Those shows are _minting_ money for Disney.

Thirdly: Disney very, _very_ rarely gets involved with their subsidiary companies outside of marketing. Anytime these decisions are being made, they're coming from Lucasfilm, not Disney. (Disney marketing is shocked at how popular Rey is, and not not popular Kylo Ren is).

To go along with point 3: when does Disney get involved with a decision? It has to be the sort of monumental mess-up on the scale of Battlefront 2's disastrous microtransactions.

Which gets us to the final point: you've conflated "support the IP it's licensing; keeping it relevant and in the public eye" with the sequels, rather than the property as a whole.

Disney is literally making as much money from selling any book under the Legends umbrella as they are from selling a book in the new canon. There's a _reason_ you can still buy literally every book under the Legends branding. Heck! They're even as available on Marvel Unlimited as the canon comics are. They make as much money from selling a toy of Darth Vader from Empire Strikes Back as they do from selling a toy of Kylo Ren in The Last Jedi. Their whole purpose of licencing toys and games and such is to remind you that Star Wars as a whole _exists_.

That's what your quote means. Disney views toys and games as marketing for the brand. Which is why they don't want any more of the crud that Lucas licensed out. They want _good_ games and _quality_ toys. They want people to be happy playing with Star Wars toys.

And they trust their licensor partners to deal with the actual mechanics of game making, given the broad themes Disney would like to see touched on. They're simply not going to meddle with point values. That's so far beyond what they know or care about that they don't even know it exists.

(Side note: Pablo Hildago knows all about the point values. He has strong opinions. And he's pissed that the E-Wing isn't in better shape. Because he's a player)

I'm just happy to see points and will of course be happy when its all updated too. Just waiting forthe conversion kits with 2nd wave.

Of course my gaming group is small. myself and one buddy (another if we can drag him out or want to treck to him and my nephew(s). Not all that worried about fancy combos or being super competitive. Just looking to play and have fun.

3 hours ago, Marinealver said:

So the Scum is now the TIE swarm faction.

My have times changed.

I mean, I don't know if I would have made the Mining TIE for Scum, but that's where FFG went.

Still, the basic role of a filler/swarm type ship which a Z-95 could provide is also filled by the Mining TIE. Mostly. I mean, there are differences, but in a limited format like Hyperspace, mostly I care about all the roles being filled.

3 hours ago, Hiemfire said:

Not liking it 100%, but every thing that Scum has other than the Escape Pod and TIE have access to missiles or torps, so the limited capacity ordinance carrier role is filled. Not cheaply, but filled none the less.

I mean, folks can carry Torps/Missiles, but generally by "ordnance ship" I mean a ship which is more cost efficient for carrying them. You can put Missiles on a YT-1300, but it's nothing like the role a TIE Bomber or Gunboat could fulfill.

Scum kind of have the worst options for this (Kimogila has 3-red dice pricing, Scyk is unique in that it's a 3-green version of a similar sort of ship, Scurrg kinda does it's own thing, but the Y-Wing is solid), but point remains: Scum is clearly the most well-rounded faction in Hyperspace. Not necessarily the best, but with the best variety.

2 minutes ago, theBitterFig said:

Scurrg kinda does it's own thing

Scurrg doesn't have Missiles or Torpedoes anymore. Turret and devices only now...

Just now, Hiemfire said:

Scurrg doesn't have Missiles or Torpedoes anymore. Turret and devices only now...

Whadaya think I meant by "it's own thing..."

Just now, theBitterFig said:

Whadaya think I meant by "it's own thing..."

Heck if I know, you outlined a list of ships that can sling missiles and or torpedoes and then tossed it in the same list...

You know, I heard somebody say the Punisher and such were more cost effective ways of getting bombs on the field than the new Resistance Bomber, and all I gotta' say to that is...

That's some narrow-**** thinkin' my dude.

Because you know what, bombs are not the primary attraction to me, using the resistance bomber. While they are indeed significant, the real sexy one to me is TWO GUNNER SLOTS. I can equip Agile and Veteran gunner on the same ship! 18 points sure, but free rotation + multi-arc shooting, that's big. Or god forbid, I can use Veteran Gunner and Skilled Bombardier to pair up with the bomber abilities! That's not even taking into account any Resistance Gunners or crew. Perceptive co-pilot would pair really well with Veteran Gunner, and I can still put on another Gunner.

This thing is "Options: The Ship!" and it's not even that expensive. I'm not even going to rule out x3 Resistance Bomber lists ad viable. Because I bet you, somebody's gonna' make that work.

I haven't even talked about Trajectory Simulator, other systems, or any of the techs you can throw on!

This thing is a BEAST.

5 minutes ago, Captain Lackwit said:

I'm not even going to rule out x3 Resistance Bomber lists ad viable. Because I bet you, somebody's gonna' make that work.

If you're nuts enough, Vennie, Teene and a Cobalt (all bare) (198) or 3 Cobalts with FCS or seismics (199) fit...

8 hours ago, Frimmel said:

Disney has to approve everything. None of this stuff gets printed without approval from the licensor. If the approvals department wants Poe and Rey to be "better" than OT Luke and Han then Poe and Rey are going to be better than OT Luke and Han. Why would Disney NOT want the new faces of their franchise to be prominent in the licensed merchandise? I think it was in one of the just after announcement of 2nd that a designer was playing and saying the Disney wanted The Force in the game. When you are working on a licensed product with a Star Wars label on it you don't get the last word.

Now, I will concede I don't know what happened here. We don't really know if we've got "power-creep" with this stuff or will get an adjustment on Rebel points. I might be full of it but I'm probably not out on a rotted limb with my idea. The only new model in the release of 2nd Ed. was from the most recent movie wasn't it? Because the licensor wanted it was likely not the sole reason but it very well may have been an influence.

Here is an article about videogames which are much bigger but much of that applies with any thing tied to Star Wars. From the article:

It's a misconception that Disney has to approve on every single decision made on any given SW project. That's LFL's job. Disney's job is just to make sure they make them money,

7 hours ago, Punning Pundit said:

There is, quite simply, an enormous difference between saying "when you do X-Wing 2.0, you need to include the Force, as that's a key component of Star Wars" and saying "make sure the stuff from the new movies is significantly better than the stuff from the original movies."

I think you're underestimating several things. Firstly: Disney _loves_ that they have decades worth of Star Wars nostalgia to draw from. _Loves_ it. That's why the Rogue One and Solo movies got greenlit in the first place.

Secondly: the current faces of Star Wars, from Disney's POV, are Ahsoka Tano and Ezra Bridger. Those shows are _minting_ money for Disney.

Thirdly: Disney very, _very_ rarely gets involved with their subsidiary companies outside of marketing. Anytime these decisions are being made, they're coming from Lucasfilm, not Disney. (Disney marketing is shocked at how popular Rey is, and not not popular Kylo Ren is).

To go along with point 3: when does Disney get involved with a decision? It has to be the sort of monumental mess-up on the scale of Battlefront 2's disastrous microtransactions.

Which gets us to the final point: you've conflated "support the IP it's licensing; keeping it relevant and in the public eye" with the sequels, rather than the property as a whole.

Disney is literally making as much money from selling any book under the Legends umbrella as they are from selling a book in the new canon. There's a _reason_ you can still buy literally every book under the Legends branding. Heck! They're even as available on Marvel Unlimited as the canon comics are. They make as much money from selling a toy of Darth Vader from Empire Strikes Back as they do from selling a toy of Kylo Ren in The Last Jedi. Their whole purpose of licencing toys and games and such is to remind you that Star Wars as a whole _exists_.

That's what your quote means. Disney views toys and games as marketing for the brand. Which is why they don't want any more of the crud that Lucas licensed out. They want _good_ games and _quality_ toys. They want people to be happy playing with Star Wars toys.

And they trust their licensor partners to deal with the actual mechanics of game making, given the broad themes Disney would like to see touched on. They're simply not going to meddle with point values. That's so far beyond what they know or care about that they don't even know it exists.

(Side note: Pablo Hildago knows all about the point values. He has strong opinions. And he's pissed that the E-Wing isn't in better shape. Because he's a player)

You pretty much took the words out of my mouth.

5 hours ago, theBitterFig said:

Rebels are missing the Ghost, if they wanted a full Scarif representation.

Yes and Empire is missing the Lambda and, if we really stretch it, the TIE Bomber (as they appeared to be the TIE/br variant rather than TIE/sa).

16 hours ago, AllWingsStandyingBy said:

Don't forget, the RZ2's dial is also better and it has a Tech slot, which is vastly superior to a Modification slot!

At this point, I have to believe either FFG has a huge Anti-Rebel sentiment in 2.0, or they are grossly incompetent, or they are just trying to sell lots of the "New Hotness" with powercreep. I'm not sure which is worse...

Yeah, FFG doesn't want to sell this game long-term, they're a bunch of super-nerds that try to make their preferred factions the best because...reasons. Guys, really...

12 hours ago, eMeM said:

I don't think it's Disney, what FFG showed us time and time again in the first edition was utter incompetence when it comes to balancing and playtesting, leaving many wondering if it's not by design to sell new minis.

"Utter incompetence", which is why this game is running most popular tabletop for several years now and making a ton of money with a vibrant tournament scene.

Hummm.... the resistance ships look incredible for their point costs. I am a little bit worried with just how powerful they all seem.

The T70s just look absolutely killer with the aces looking significantly undercosted.. looking at you poe!

The new A-wings seem to be better in every single way than the original A-wings. Double EPT with cheap heroic? Yes please.. Shooting backwards! whoahh .. Phoenix Squadron Pilot is 30 points. The lowest A-wing is 31 points. What !?!?

The FO ships I am not too sure on... They are priced pretty much the same as per second edition but without LWF I am unsure as to how good they will be considering they are now significantly more squishy and they have to manage their front/rear turret facing, which will hurt the low I pilots.

The Tie FO ships seem very expensive, especially midnight who is almost the same cost as a naked quickdraw.

51 minutes ago, Stefan said:

Yeah, FFG doesn't want to sell this game long-term, they're a bunch of super-nerds that try to make their preferred factions the best because...reasons. Guys, really...

"Utter incompetence", which is why this game is running most popular tabletop for several years now and making a ton of money with a vibrant tournament scene.

Did you just wake up after two years of hibernation?

6 hours ago, Captain Lackwit said:

Because you know what, bombs are not the primary attraction to me, using the resistance bomber. While they are indeed significant, the real sexy one to me is TWO GUNNER SLOTS. I can equip Agile and Veteran gunner on the same ship! 18 points sure, but free rotation + multi-arc shooting, that's big. Or god forbid, I can use Veteran Gunner and Skilled Bombardier to pair up with the bomber abilities! That's not even taking into account any Resistance Gunners or crew. Perceptive co-pilot would pair really well with Veteran Gunner, and I can still put on another Gunner.

Did we forget Rey Gunner?

Finn Gunner?

Do ya need MORE options?

Paige gunner + Rose Crew?

Huh?

HUH?!

Lol.

1 hour ago, william1134 said:

The FO ships I am not too sure on... They are priced pretty much the same as per second edition but without LWF I am unsure as to how good they will be considering they are now significantly more squishy and they have to manage their front/rear turret facing, which will hurt the low I pilots.

The Tie FO ships seem very expensive, especially midnight who is almost the same cost as a naked quickdraw.

The longer I play 2E, the more I am convinced that these costs for everything all make sense somehow.

Its been a mini puzzle for me to figure out "why does this A-wing HAVE to be 30pts".

You start plugging in power stuff like proton rockets and weighing those shots against their built-in reposition advantage, even at low Initiative, and you start to get a sense of the intentional balance of things.

Not at all to negate your point... I totally see the gap between RZ1 and RZ2.

Maybe we will see a slight reduction for RZ1 when they re-release.

Hmmm, sorry Bucknife but can you explain why you see the gap between Rz1 and Rz2? The Rz2 just seems flatout better for almost the same price.

17 hours ago, kogtim said:

Petty Officer Thanison taking up 2 crew slots seems odd. Must be necessary for balance, but it doesn't make much thematic sense that a single person that isn't a faction leader who presumably has a big entourage would take up 2 slots.

She has a big butt. Just that.

😁

2 hours ago, eMeM said:

Did you just wake up after two years of hibernation?

I resent the hyperbole is all.

3 hours ago, william1134 said:

Hmmm, sorry Bucknife but can you explain why you see the gap between Rz1 and Rz2? The Rz2 just seems flatout better for almost the same price.

I believe he is acknowledging that, and that referencing the gap between them was not meant to refer to justifying the current pricing.

11 hours ago, Captain Lackwit said:

You know, I heard somebody say the Punisher and such were more cost effective ways of getting bombs on the field than the new Resistance Bomber, and all I gotta' say to that is...

That's some narrow-**** thinkin' my dude.

Because you know what, bombs are not the primary attraction to me, using the resistance bomber. While they are indeed significant, the real sexy one to me is TWO GUNNER SLOTS. I can equip Agile and Veteran gunner on the same ship! 18 points sure, but free rotation + multi-arc shooting, that's big. Or god forbid, I can use Veteran Gunner and Skilled Bombardier to pair up with the bomber abilities! That's not even taking into account any Resistance Gunners or crew. Perceptive co-pilot would pair really well with Veteran Gunner, and I can still put on another Gunner.

This thing is "Options: The Ship!" and it's not even that expensive. I'm not even going to rule out x3 Resistance Bomber lists ad viable. Because I bet you, somebody's gonna' make that work.

I haven't even talked about Trajectory Simulator, other systems, or any of the techs you can throw on!

This thing is a BEAST.

Why is paying more for empty upgrade slots good? I understand that options are good, but the resistance bomber is supremely overcosted for what you get, when compared to redline.

Finch (the best bomber pilot from 1.0) is literally 3/8 of an entire list with only proton bombs equipped. The other bombers with gunners and other upgrades will probably end up around a similar cost. If you think you're going to be able to trade that for more than 75 points, then be my guest. From my experience with 2.0 though, that just doesn't seem like it is at a price where it can consistently see a decent win ratio. I would always take two RZ-2s over a Star Fortress, just due to the pricing.

11 hours ago, Bucknife said:

Did we forget Rey Gunner?

Finn Gunner?

Do ya need MORE options?

Paige gunner + Rose Crew?

Huh?

HUH?!

Lol.

Those were the obvious ones! Paige + Finn + Rose! WHOO. BOY.

6 hours ago, ThinkingB said:

Why is paying more for empty upgrade slots good? I understand that options are good, but the resistance bomber is supremely overcosted for what you get, when compared to redline.

Finch (the best bomber pilot from 1.0) is literally 3/8 of an entire list with only proton bombs equipped. The other bombers with gunners and other upgrades will probably end up around a similar cost. If you think you're going to be able to trade that for more than 75 points, then be my guest. From my experience with 2.0 though, that just doesn't seem like it is at a price where it can consistently see a decent win ratio. I would always take two RZ-2s over a Star Fortress, just due to the pricing.

You're kidding right? This is a ship with a 3 forward and 2 bowtie, which has several tandem triggers when it comes to bombs, an en entire condition card that has to do with that. The amount of hurt this thing can put out is absolutely worth ~80 points. This is the kind of ship you build a list around.

Yes, you absolutely do expect it to get hit and be a target, but you expect to survive that first hit too. You expect to really, really hurt stuff. It's not like this thing performs in a vacuum either. Throw other bombers with it and almost nowhere on the board can actually be safe. Throw flankers with it, actually nowhere is safe. You should pair it up with escorts, but nobody could actually fault you for running two of these things so long as your game plan is solid.

And also expect to see these bad boys in Epic once that comes back.

This thing is a battlefield controller through and through.

So confirmed by FFG that the US release (and update of the App) will be on the 13th.

Odd to have such a long delay.

11 hours ago, Arma Quattro said:

She has a big butt. Just that.

Isn't Thanison a dude? Not that that means his booty still doesn't need two seats......

5 minutes ago, PanchoX1 said:

Isn't Thanison a dude? Not that that means his booty still doesn't need two seats......

Well. It doesn’t.

They fixed that one, he only takes one crew slot.

3 minutes ago, SpiderMana said:

Well. It doesn’t.

They fixed that one, he only takes one crew slot.

Thanks for the heads up, I didn't catch that they had updated the FO and Resistance pdfs.