7 minutes ago, Zrob314 said:

Or, you know, the line is less than a year old.

It could just be a very odd coincidence, but it looks much more like a conscious design decision. There are some 24 units in the game and 100% of them are in line with only coming directly from the movies, and 0% them violate this rule. But if you really wanted to know for sure I guess the people to ask would be the designers at Fantasy Flight.

31 minutes ago, frankelee said:

It could just be a very odd coincidence, but it looks much more like a conscious design decision. There are some 24 units in the game and 100% of them are in line with only coming directly from the movies, and 0% them violate this rule. But if you really wanted to know for sure I guess the people to ask would be the designers at Fantasy Flight.

So even though every other single star wars license game FFG has created uses stuff from books, comics and tv shows and video games....you've decided (really in the face of overwhelming contrary evidence) that this particular game won't do that. Really after 41 years of this I shouldn't be surprised at Star Wars fans engaging in wishful thinking, but okay, whatever. I'm just gonna say, don't be too disappointed when you are inevitably proven wrong. You could literally see this coming from 12 parsecs away.

Here....the generic rebel officer coming out in January...his sculpt is Gideon Argus from Imperial Assault.

On 12/3/2018 at 12:38 PM, frankelee said:

They have conspicuously chosen to not include units or characters that aren't directly out of the major movie releases so far.

Only sort of. The rebel troopers and commandos are vaguely inspired by the movies but aren't the actual Endor or Scariff troops. They have models in them which never appear onscreen, in combinations with weapons that aren't in the movies, etc. The AT-RT driven by a rebel isn't in a movie. I don't think we ever see a stormtrooper with a missile launcher, definitely not snowtroopers with ion guns and flamethrowers. Etc. etc. The movies are a strong inspiration but not a hard rule like in the early phase of GW's 2003ish LOTR game.

And that's without touching on upcoming releases.

26 minutes ago, Zrob314 said:

So even though every other single star wars license game FFG has created uses stuff from books, comics and tv shows and video games....you've decided (really in the face of overwhelming contrary evidence) that this particular game won't do that. Really after 41 years of this I shouldn't be surprised at Star Wars fans engaging in wishful thinking, but okay, whatever. I'm just gonna say, don't be too disappointed when you are inevitably proven wrong. You could literally see this coming from 12 parsecs away.

Here....the generic rebel officer coming out in January...his sculpt is Gideon Argus from Imperial Assault.

There's a new sheriff in town: Disney.

18 minutes ago, Zrob314 said:

So even though every other single star wars license game FFG has created uses stuff from books, comics and tv shows and video games....you've decided (really in the face of overwhelming contrary evidence) that this particular game won't do that. Really after 41 years of this I shouldn't be surprised at Star Wars fans engaging in wishful thinking, but okay, whatever. I'm just gonna say, don't be too disappointed when you are inevitably proven wrong. You could literally see this coming from 12 parsecs away.

Here....the generic rebel officer coming out in January...his sculpt is Gideon Argus from Imperial Assault.

I'm not trying to argue about it, I just happened to notice it the same way I notice the sky is blue. You don't have to believe it, and I'm not in charge of Fantasy Flight, it's not my decision to continue or change. And they can change it, it's just obvious that the creative direction FFG management has chosen for this game is to only feature major movie content. And actually it's 26 units, I forgot the heavy guns. Out of 26 units available, 100% come from the movies, 0% come from the Extended Universe or Imperial Assault.

The Personnel Expansions are really the final nail in the coffin that takes it from a one in a million shot that it's just a coincidence to completely beyond even unreasonable doubt. Gideon Argus won't be in Legion, Rebel Officer will. If the creatives were allowed to use things outside the movies then we would just get Gideon Argus. But they slipped the miniature design in as a generic, which makes sense as every character from the movies could be used as a named hero potentially. If you want to include the Personnel Expansions in the overall line, that makes 28 units that feature no content from the Extended Universe.

Again, really the people to talk to on this would be FFG. They could change their minds and start including Extended Universe stuff, and perhaps it was always their plan to use only movie stuff until the movies were exhausted, then branch out into the EU. But they quite purposefully have avoided using ANY EU stuff up until this point.

The game has been out for less than a year, do people actually think FFG are going to release an entire bunch of obscure EU material when they are concentrating on making the foundations for a new game using a combination of easily recognisable models and models which bring a balanced variety.

People are making assumptions and carrying on like this game has been out for 5 years and FFG still haven't made their favourite drop kick EU scum dude and it's all Disney's fault.

Less than a year.

No.

Well if the prequel era is released then let's not forget the faction that was prominently featured in the phantom menace, the naboo. 😀

Making a small homebrew faction and units currently to go with the game in anticipation for that, for example the seraph speeder 😁

https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:3251096

16 hours ago, DarkTrooperZero said:

Less than a year.

I think one issue is subconsciously comparing to other SW "little toy people" games. But the SW: Legion situation is very different from them: When D6 came out, it had 3-4 years worth of RPG/collector minis already released so it had a lot to pick from right away. When D20 came out, the armies were so tiny (around 10 models) that it was no big deal to make 3 factions that were all pretty well fleshed out and gave a variety of options for specific themes and stuff. Imperial Assault likewise used so few figures (and employed such economy of sculpting, ie, using 1 pose per squad) that 3 relatively well developed factions were out within the first year.

This is of course not counting the odd little sidebars such as metal WOTC minis, assorted toy lines that made good gaming minis, mainstream Star Wars boardgames that used detailed figures as tokens, unauthorized lines from the 70's that people used for Traveler, 25mm scale diorama model kits, etc.

On 12/4/2018 at 2:00 PM, frankelee said:

I'm not trying to argue about it, I just happened to notice it the same way I notice the sky is blue.

I'm not saying they';re going to release non-movie material in the near future. You however are speculating that they will NEVER release it. So, much like you notice the sky is blue I'm offering you evidence that every other game sooner or later steps out of the movie material and you shouldn't expect this to be any different, so don't be disappointed when it is.

I say this because time and time again I've seen Star Wars fans decide that thing X is true even when there's no evidence for it and nothing official. Then I see them get really angry when thing X doesn't happen. Case in point. All the people in 1999-2002 who absolutely refused to believe that Palpatine and Darth Sidious were the same person.

36 minutes ago, Zrob314 said:

Case in point. All the people in 1999-2002 who absolutely refused to believe that Palpatine and Darth Sidious were the same person.

Wait, that was a thing that happened?

Or the asinine snoke=darth plagueious garbage...

3 hours ago, Zrob314 said:

I'm not saying they';re going to release non-movie material in the near future. You however are speculating that they will NEVER release it. So, much like you notice the sky is blue I'm offering you evidence that every other game sooner or later steps out of the movie material and you shouldn't expect this to be any different, so don't be disappointed when it is.

I say this because time and time again I've seen Star Wars fans decide that thing X is true even when there's no evidence for it and nothing official. Then I see them get really angry when thing X doesn't happen. Case in point. All the people in 1999-2002 who absolutely refused to believe that Palpatine and Darth Sidious were the same person.

It's not what I want them to do, it's what they're doing. I noticed it when the game was first announced because I thought cross-over with Imperial Assault would be a great idea, where heroes and unique characters could serve as lesser heroes, much like "Champions" and "Heroes" worked in Warhammer. But instead they went with this very stark design where you have the big movie heroes and then totally generic soldiers, and nothing in between.

I wasn't expecting this approach at all given their other releases: Armada's core set has ships from outside the movies, Imperial Assault's core set features six new heroes, and every supplement features even more, X-Wing immediately had pilots from outside the movies, and even though those are just cards, probably in the first 28 ships in the game, around half of them are from outside the movies. You just have to appreciate how much planning and executive control goes into these games, this decision to only take content directly from major movie releases has just got to be a conscious one. I'm surprised this fact isn't immediately obvious to people, but beyond that, it's just something I noted because it's worth keeping in mind when discussing future possible content. It is a conscious design decision by management, not just an anomaly caused by the game only being out a short amount of time or some crazy coincidence.

Like I noted before, it's a human being's decision, so it's not like violating Thermodynamics if they throw in Admiral Thrawn. BUT, it is there, it is a decision that they have been enforcing on their designs. Again there's no way to know the details unless FFG shares them, it could be Christian T. Peterson tried out Imperial Assault with Rebels cartoon heroes and went, "This is stupid, I hate cartoon characters, Legion can never have anything not from the live action movies!" and because of the 18 month production pipeline it won't be until Q1 of 2020 before we see any EU content. Or it could be an MBA who works for FFG went, "If we sell the same characters for two different games then we're just competing with ourselves! Since Legion must include movie content we have to double on those characters, but that's it! Anyone who wants to play with EU content will have to buy Imperial Assault, and if they want our newest game they'll still buy Legion." And the plan for when they run out of OT relevant movie content is to start making Clone Wars content instead. Or maybe Disney just went, "Sell our movies or you won't get the license when it's time to renew! Live action movie content is all you should care about!!!"

So as far as a Scum faction goes, my original point was simply that their unyielding attitude toward what creative directions the game may take suggests FFG would not be very open to the allowing the designers the sort of creative license one would hope to have when stitching together another faction that really didn't exist in the movies. They could always change their minds, but there's simply no reason to pretend as if FFG management has not made a conscious design decision concerning what content can be included in the game, or to delude ourselves with the idea that it's just some wacky coincidence for whatever weak reason we can think of. Far from there being no evidence for this, it's overwhelming to the point of comedy. But, whatever people want to believe, again, my original point was if one wants to be grounded in reality, then it's hard to get your hopes up for a Scum faction since that would seem to be outside FFG's approach.

17 minutes ago, frankelee said:

It's not what I want them to do, it's what they're doing. I noticed it when the game was first announced because I thought cross-over with Imperial Assault would be a great idea, where heroes and unique characters could serve as lesser heroes, much like "Champions" and "Heroes" worked in Warhammer. But instead they went with this very stark design where you have the big movie heroes and then totally generic soldiers, and nothing in between.

I wasn't expecting this approach at all given their other releases: Armada's core set has ships from outside the movies, Imperial Assault's core set features six new heroes, and every supplement features even more, X-Wing immediately had pilots from outside the movies, and even though those are just cards, probably in the first 28 ships in the game, around half of them are from outside the movies. You just have to appreciate how much planning and executive control goes into these games, this decision to only take content directly from major movie releases has just got to be a conscious one. I'm surprised this fact isn't immediately obvious to people, but beyond that, it's just something I noted because it's worth keeping in mind when discussing future possible content. It is a conscious design decision by management, not just an anomaly caused by the game only being out a short amount of time or some crazy coincidence.

Definitely this. ^

Because if being a Star Wars fan for 40 years has taught me anything, it’s that all those scenes with General Weiss kicked so much ***!!

42 minutes ago, FSD said:

Definitely this. ^

Because if being a Star Wars fan for 40 years has taught me anything, it’s that all those scenes with General Weiss kicked so much ***!!

General Weiss is definitely my favorite commander, operative, model, vehicle upgrade card in the game! BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

16 hours ago, thepopemobile100 said:

Wait, that was a thing that happened?

Yes....yes it was. They were everywhere and they would not shut up.

Some of them even persisted until RotS.

13 hours ago, frankelee said:

Armada's core set has ships from outside the movies, Imperial Assault's core set features six new heroes, and every supplement features even more, X-Wing immediately had pilots from outside the movies, and even though those are just cards, probably in the first 28 ships in the game, around half of them are from outside the movies.

Armada had to have a ship from outside the movies in the Core because otherwise they would have had to release an ISD in the starter box. On screen Imperial capital ships are: ISD, SSD, Death Star. So they had to recognize the Victory and other EU ships immediately or there's not a game for them to make.

Imperial Assault had to have non-movie heroes because that was the entire point of its design.

X-wing. I'm going to completely throw out what you're saying about the pilots. Most of the on screen ships that made it in to X-wing have a single named Pilot from the OT. Pretty much everything but the X and Y wings. So basically they could makeup pilots, pull them from the EU or release ships with one named and three generic. I would, however, like to point out that X-wing was released in August 2012 at Gen Con and it didn't have an EU model until a year later when they released the Hawk (9.13.13)

Correlation is not causation. You're inferring that just because they haven't released things that weren't seen on screen in a move then they will never do this. You're also creating motivations from the designers out of thin air while ignoring the reality that if they hold to this blinkered idea you have they will run out of sellable content really quickly. I agree, this is a conscious decision so far to release what they have released. It does not, however, give any indication of what will come. For instance one could not infer a thing about TLJ after seeing all the star wars movies up to that time. Similarly You could not have inferred what would happen in ESB from ANH.

Seriously, this is like talking to someone who is trying to convince me that the effects of climate change will reverse themselves in my lifetime and we don't have to do anything about ti at all. Every single piece of available evidence is against you but you just make stuff up to reinforce your personal narrative. So, when the EU releases come, and they will, I'll just remind you that you were incredibly wrong. Or you can produce some evidence to back up your claim that this is a conscious design decision to keep some "on screen only purity" in this game.

2 minutes ago, Zrob314 said:

Armada had to have a ship from outside the movies in the Core because otherwise they would have had to release an ISD in the starter box. On screen Imperial capital ships are: ISD, SSD, Death Star. So they had to recognize the Victory and other EU ships immediately or there's not a game for them to make.

Imperial Assault had to have non-movie heroes because that was the entire point of its design.

X-wing. I'm going to completely throw out what you're saying about the pilots. Most of the on screen ships that made it in to X-wing have a single named Pilot from the OT. Pretty much everything but the X and Y wings. So basically they could makeup pilots, pull them from the EU or release ships with one named and three generic. I would, however, like to point out that X-wing was released in August 2012 at Gen Con and it didn't have an EU model until a year later when they released the Hawk (9.13.13)

Correlation is not causation. You're inferring that just because they haven't released things that weren't seen on screen in a move then they will never do this. You're also creating motivations from the designers out of thin air while ignoring the reality that if they hold to this blinkered idea you have they will run out of sellable content really quickly.

Seriously, this is like talking to someone who is trying to convince me that the effects of climate change will reverse themselves in my lifetime and we don't have to do anything about ti at all. Every single piece of available evidence is against you but you just make stuff up to reinforce your personal narrative. So, when the EU releases come, and they will, I'll just remind you that you were incredibly wrong. Or you can produce some evidence to back up your claim that this is a conscious design decision to keep some "on screen only purity" in this game.

You're not really able to read and comprehend what I'm writing... And there's nothing I can do to fix that. Also, I have an education in science and your grasp of correlation and causation, how inference works, and generally how empiricism works is pretty lacking. You just don't seem to be able to comprehend how evidence functions and how it's actually used by real life scientists, researchers, police, government officials, military officials, news reporters, etc. And of course you have yet to figure out what I'm actually saying, instead repeating some straw man you've made up, all in spite of the fact that I've tried to break it down for you in simple terms several times. I don't know if you're just trying to save face after being really wrong and just don't know when to stop flailing, or what. So... I'm out. \_(ツ)_/

19 minutes ago, frankelee said:

You're not really able to read and comprehend what I'm writing... And there's nothing I can do to fix that. Also, I have an education in science and your grasp of correlation and causation, how inference works, and generally how empiricism works is pretty lacking. You just don't seem to be able to comprehend how evidence functions and how it's actually used by real life scientists, researchers, police, government officials, military officials, news reporters, etc. And of course you have yet to figure out what I'm actually saying, instead repeating some straw man you've made up, all in spite of the fact that I've tried to break it down for you in simple terms several times. I don't know if you're just trying to save face after being really wrong and just don't know when to stop flailing, or what. So... I'm out. \_(ツ)_/

You're saying that because they have not released an off screen unit they will never release an off screen unit. Have I misread you?

If I have please give me a concise thesis. Here's your quote from earlier "It seems like it's their creative MO to give it the pure flavor of what's on film and not mix in anything else." Has something changed?

So, here's my competing thesis. "Non-movie units will eventually, inevitably, come into this game. The only reason they are not in the game is they hare drawing from on screen resources first. Soon, probably by end of 2019, they will have exhausted those resources."

Please god yes! Hutt's! 😍

yes hutts!

On 12/6/2018 at 11:48 AM, Zrob314 said:

So, here's my competing thesis. "Non-movie units will eventually, inevitably, come into this game. The only reason they are not in the game is they hare drawing from on screen resources first. Soon, probably by end of 2019, they will have exhausted those resources."

Considering the rebel AT-RT and the assorted early heavies, and the rebel Duros, non-movie units have been in the game since day 1. See also: a bunch of upcoming releases.

1 hour ago, TauntaunScout said:

Considering the rebel AT-RT and the assorted early heavies, and the rebel Duros, non-movie units have been in the game since day 1. See also: a bunch of upcoming releases.

AT-RT were in Revenge of the Sith (with a Z-6 I believe)

Duros were in A New Hope.

Ion Guns were in A New Hope

I just want a hutt cartel factions. The commanders could just be the various hutts we see throughout Rebels(?), Clone Wars, and The Movies. There's alot to go off of for commander hutts that could be varying.

- Jabba
- Ziro (annoying hutt from The Clone Wars, but still a hutt)
- Grakkus (From the comics, who i'd personally find hilarious to use.)
- Could also give them a nameless Hutt that you could customize, if they wanted.

One thing in particular is that I'd have it be where they can only bring 1 commander, and 0 - 3 Operatives.

That said, i really don't want a general scum faction, i think that'd be silly.

15 hours ago, Zrob314 said:

AT-RT were in Revenge of the Sith (with a Z-6 I believe)

Not with a rebel Endor/Scariff pilot.

Quote

Duros were in A New Hope.

Not in fatigues toting a rifle among a bunch of rebels.

Quote

Ion Guns were in A New Hope

Not carried by an Endor/Scariff rebel.

There were no stormtroopers with shoulder fired rocket launchers, no Endor/Scariff rebels (that I recall) with gatling guns. And that's just in the core box, without touching stuff from expansions.

Models in this game are screen strongly inspired but hardly limited to stuff that actually appeared onscreen. Compare this to games with much stricter licensing deals. For awhile you could only get some really weird stuff (from a gaming perspective) for LOTR because they could only make little figures of exact copies of stuff as it appeared on film. They wouldn't sculpt anyone in a pose they didn't strike on camera. Everyone had the exact weapons they were shown with onscreen, you couldn't get certain sensible weapon combos for squads. They would only release very odd choices for mounted models for awhile. Compared to that, FFG is pretty free and loose with screen vs. tabletop. Some of the models were based on movie photos GW was sent that ended up in cut scenes, but still.

10 hours ago, Alino said:

I just want a hutt cartel factions. The commanders could just be the various hutts we see throughout Rebels(?), Clone Wars, and The Movies. There's alot to go off of for commander hutts that could be varying.

Hutts would be as good as it gets for a generic mercenary list. A bunch of Cantina/Palace random Star Wars gunhavers, a Hutt commander for theme and collecting, and, because Hutts wouldn't risk their own neck if they could avoid it, a cheap humanoid field commander. Most of what most people want in a "scum" list would be covered by a "hutt" faction. But if the history of all SW minis games is any guide, we'll eventually get an immersion and mechanic breaking neutral faction or none at all

Ewoks, frankly, I think should just be rolled into rebels like in WEG, not part of the neutral forces like in WOTC.