Ah, so priest is more shrine keeper. Which is nice, as titles seem to be social standings and stuff, rather than inherently profession based like the schools.

3 hours ago, Isawa Miyu said:

Right  now the only disappointing thing priest/shuggie wise from the game, was no Emma-O shuge  nja school

Do you mean Emma-O as in the fortune of Death? Or are you referring to Ishikendo, the Void magic (which would match the description of being caught early and trained separately)?

Because this is another big gap in the Core Rulebook. No Void invocations nor Ishiken... but this will probably be for a Phoenix themed book?

3 hours ago, Isawa Miyu said:

... because the book claims that shugenja touched by Emma-O are identified early, and trained separately from the typical elemental/general training.

"The book" is Emerald Empire (5th ed)?

7 hours ago, Franwax said:

Do you mean Emma-O as in the fortune of Death? Or are you referring to Ishikendo, the Void magic (which would match the description of being caught early and trained separately)?

Because this is another big gap in the Core Rulebook. No Void invocations nor Ishiken... but this will probably be for a Phoenix themed book?

Emma-O. Yes. Supposedly marked by identification that they're 'touched' by death, iirc a jagged birthmark is the example from the book. Definitely not Ishiken, they're not in Emerald Empire.

Yeah, Ishiken aren't exactly something that can get away with a tiny school blurb, and nothing else. I'd also guess they'll be in whatever book the Phoenix are in, as well as possibly the Yobanjin, maybe the Cat minor clan, etc... I suspect there won't be a lot of Void invocations, since Ishiken can use the other elements through their connection to the Void, and that the school ability will try to capture a lot of their unique flavour. It just doesn't make sense to have as many Void invocations as the other elements, considering Ishiken are rare, few characters will play them, AND they can use all the elements.

6 hours ago, nameless ronin said:

"The book" is Emerald Empire (5th ed)?

Yes.

3 minutes ago, Isawa Miyu said:

Yes.

Just asking since this appears to be new. This might not necessitate a separate school, to be honest - maybe it's more of a special program in the regular, existing schools. If they're that rare, it wouldn't be very effective to set up separate schools. Particularly since the clans don't easily give up their precious shugenja, so there'd have to be separate schools for most of the Great Clans at least.

25 minutes ago, nameless ronin said:

Just asking since this appears to be new. This might not necessitate a separate school, to be honest - maybe it's more of a special program in the regular, existing schools. If they're that rare, it wouldn't be very effective to set up separate schools. Particularly since the clans don't easily give up their precious shugenja, so there'd have to be separate schools for most of the Great Clans at least.

The book says they're taught very differently, and are treated basically how the priests of Emma-O are: largely shunned/feared and ignored during funeral rites until they are left alone to ritualistically judge the spirit of the deceased. Since they specify their education is different, I'd expect a separate school. Not one big enough to publish by FFG, but one important enough to be hosted by one or two specific locations, and where all marked by Emma-O are educated (basically just like how Ishikendo are all picked up by the Phoenix, learn to harness their powers on their own, or die). A clan could host the school(s) (maybe as a branch, of say the Kitsu school), or a minor Clan could specialize in it, or it could be run as a branch of an Imperial sponsored school. The only thing I would avoid is saying 'the clans manage somehow, despite our saying it was specific and different training', and 'the Phoenix do it', because it's a good opportunity to highlight another spiritual tradition.

Just now, Isawa Miyu said:

The book says they're taught very differently, and are treated basically how the priests of Emma-O are: largely shunned/feared and ignored during funeral rites until they are left alone to ritualistically judge the spirit of the deceased. Since they specify their education is different, I'd expect a separate school. Not one big enough to publish by FFG, but one important enough to be hosted by one or two specific locations, and where all marked by Emma-O are educated (basically just like how Ishikendo are all picked up by the Phoenix, learn to harness their powers on their own, or die). A clan could host the school(s) (maybe as a branch, of say the Kitsu school), or a minor Clan could specialize in it, or it could be run as a branch of an Imperial sponsored school. The only thing I would avoid is saying 'the clans manage somehow, despite our saying it was specific and different training', and 'the Phoenix do it', because it's a good opportunity to highlight another spiritual tradition.

Could be. I hope to be able to pick up the book this month.

2 minutes ago, nameless ronin said:

Could be. I hope to be able to pick up the book this month.

I was actually surprised how detailed they got on the Emma-O priests and shugenja, yet left out even a hint of where they are educated, or by whom. Also, how they detailed those priests and rites, but didn't give any other minor Fortunes similar treatment. The book is thinner than the core, so they definitely could have done it from that perspective.

Sounds like they might have plans to introduce something based on the events that Gyushi Kageto and Daigotsu Kurogane experienced with Emma-O from WC4. The birthmark sounds like the brand both received that would be then inherited by their descendants.

Ok so who here has it, whats it got in it ? Timeline ? Maps ? More schools groups for each clan ? {Do we have our Scorpion Bushi ?}

EDIT: I dont have time right now to read the whole thread as I am heading out to try and get some more holiday shopping done

2 hours ago, Ni Fang said:

Ok so who here has it, whats it got in it ? Timeline ? Maps ? More schools groups for each clan ? {Do we have our Scorpion Bushi ?}

EDIT: I dont have time right now to read the whole thread as I am heading out to try and get some more holiday shopping done

The only new crunch are: Imperial Families as a clan, the three individual Imperial families as families within that clan, schools for the Imperials, as well as one for Kolat, one for Kitsune (either pure blood or descendant) "impersonator"; as well as a few new advantages/disadvantages, and a single shuji for Kolat, and a single shuji for Imperials. No clan schools, no new equipment or items, no new techniques except those two shuji (though Kolat have an ability to take ninjutsu level 1-5, so we've got a hint at new ninjutsu coming at some point).

Lore-wise, we have a ton going on. No crunch in terms of rules (no complex economy simulator for example), but a number of new NPCs, and location information, and the vast majority of the book is useful lore information. For every type of settlement, there are multiple examples (from kyuden, to tiny shrine), and there's at least one map layout of one of those example locations (so there's a new castle map layout, city map, town map, village map, temple map, and maybe one or two more). Lore-wise we get a look at gempukku, marriage, funerals (with varying specificity). There's clarification, if vague, on what a daimyo is (basically any land-holding character with vassals can claim the title, but city governors explicitly go by 'governor', and past the provincial daimyo level the book doesn't use the term, even though it says it applies to lower land-holders, which suggests to me to not bother using it for them).

There's so much information on lore, that I'll have to re-read the thing at least once to make sure I've got it settled in my head. The timeline/history at the start of the book is pretty lightweight, definitely missing a lot (no destruction of the Snake clan, no founding of the Fox, etc...) but we're basically told that's because it is based on emphasizing the 'thousand years of peace' idea, and that it is explicitly propaganda. For example, the Battle of White stag is very vague, and doesn't sound serious at all. My favourite personal touch though, was the lore-keeper saying that the Isawa calendar (IC) used for the dates is based on when the Kami fell to Rokugan, and rumours that some other important event happened during that time are just rumours, because what else could be as important (hilariously glossing over the fact that, to Isawa, pretty much anything could be more important)?

So I guess that answers your questions, and provides a little tease at the extent of the book.

Also two Monk schools. I feel like people keep forgetting that lately.

On 11/28/2018 at 5:49 PM, Daeglan said:

4 minutes ago, Isawa Miyu said:

The only new crunch are: Imperial Families as a clan, the three individual Imperial families as families within that clan, schools for the Imperials, as well as one for Kolat, one for Kitsune (either pure blood or descendant) "impersonator"; as well as a few new advantages/disadvantages, and a single shuji for Kolat, and a single shuji for Imperials. No clan schools, no new equipment or items, no new techniques except those two shuji (though Kolat have an ability to take ninjutsu level 1-5, so we've got a hint at new ninjutsu coming at some point).

Lore-wise, we have a ton going on. No crunch in terms of rules (no complex economy simulator for example), but a number of new NPCs, and location information, and the vast majority of the book is useful lore information. For every type of settlement, there are multiple examples (from kyuden, to tiny shrine), and there's at least one map layout of one of those example locations (so there's a new castle map layout, city map, town map, village map, temple map, and maybe one or two more). Lore-wise we get a look at gempukku, marriage, funerals (with varying specificity). There's clarification, if vague, on what a daimyo is (basically any land-holding character with vassals can claim the title, but city governors explicitly go by 'governor', and past the provincial daimyo level the book doesn't use the term, even though it says it applies to lower land-holders, which suggests to me to not bother using it for them).

There's so much information on lore, that I'll have to re-read the thing at least once to make sure I've got it settled in my head. The timeline/history at the start of the book is pretty lightweight, definitely missing a lot (no destruction of the Snake clan, no founding of the Fox, etc...) but we're basically told that's because it is based on emphasizing the 'thousand years of peace' idea, and that it is explicitly propaganda. For example, the Battle of White stag is very vague, and doesn't sound serious at all. My favourite personal touch though, was the lore-keeper saying that the Isawa calendar (IC) used for the dates is based on when the Kami fell to Rokugan, and rumours that some other important event happened during that time are just rumours, because what else could be as important (hilariously glossing over the fact that, to Isawa, pretty much anything could be more important)?

So I guess that answers your questions, and provides a little tease at the extent of the book.

I do hope they keep the rule crunch light and clean. Too many techniques added could imbalance the way that things are kind of tied together in this edition. It is a fragile entity.

But we will see.. shadowland seems to have much more "crunch"... And that is a scary prospect considering the latest Yokiri ability they gave us in EE.

Oki dokie thanks guys

*marks book for buying in the new year*

So, nothing on dueling etiquette? Any further information on matters of law and justice? Etiquette in general?

On 12/18/2018 at 7:05 PM, nameless ronin said:

So, nothing on dueling etiquette? Any further information on matters of law and justice? Etiquette in general?

The initial codification of the law by the Crane and Scorpion is mentioned. Clan magistrates get a little attention. There's no comprehensive law and justice section, though there are sections that mention it. There's no concrete etiquette section either (so no thorough description of courtly manners or similar), but a number of sections cover etiquette that is relevant, such as: members of the Imperial families should always be addressed with the -sama honorific regardless of status, except by extremely high ranking officials (it lists some, but doesn't mention clan champions, who I would assume also don't do this); how one acts at a shrine; how peasants typically approach samurai.

Edit: While the section on law and justice is sparse, there IS a specific section for it, I just seem to have forgotten (it's about six pages, if you include details on magistrates, an estate map, and how courts function: the actual crime and punishment section is about 1.5 pages). Though mostly broad, it does include a guideline on crimes, and punishments for said crimes.

Is there a list of honorifcs ? *is working on ner groups story version of their party's adventure and wants to get the honorfics correct*

Not tyat i saw. They do have a bunch of titles with mechanice

2 hours ago, Isawa Miyu said:

The initial codification of the law by the Crane and Scorpion is mentioned. Clan magistrates get a little attention. There's no comprehensive law and justice section, though there are sections that mention it. There's no concrete etiquette section either (so no thorough description of courtly manners or similar), but a number of sections cover etiquette that is relevant, such as: members of the Imperial families should always be addressed with the -sama honorific regardless of status, except by extremely high ranking officials (it lists some, but doesn't mention clan champions, who I would assume also don't do this); how one acts at a shrine; how peasants typically approach samurai.

A bit better than I was hoping for in some regards, not quite as good in others. I'll take it, I guess. Thanks for the summary!

2 hours ago, nameless ronin said:

A bit better than I was hoping for in some regards, not quite as good in others. I'll take it, I guess. Thanks for the summary!

It is solid enough for most players and especially new players. There is a lot to digest in that book already and it gives a general cover of most cases without delving in any overly precise details. It is also written in a clean and enjoyable format.

Rule and crunch is only a tiny part of the book, a tiny part that they obviously didn't really nail, but at least it is just a small part! And to be honest, until they do a proper errata for the corebook (one including much more fixes and clarifications and that does not contain errors itself) I'd rather they stay rule lite!

Still a very recommended book, for new players it is a must, for older players i guess there could be redundant stuff but it is a pleasure to read, so all good!

33 minutes ago, Avatar111 said:

Rule and crunch is only a tiny part of the book, a tiny part that they obviously didn't really nail, but at least it is just a small part! And to be honest, until they do a proper errata for the corebook (one including much more fixes and clarifications and that does not contain errors itself) I'd rather they stay rule lite!

I wasn't hoping for anything crunchy, to be honest. L5R's biggest hurdle for new players is getting to know and understanding the setting. The mechanics are a breeze to learn in comparison. I was hoping for a bit more information regarding the circumstances of duels, about justice and the law (extremely important for magistrate PCs, which is a common role for them), and about general etiquette. It seems we're getting some of that, and in some cases more than I expected, but definitely not all of it.

39 minutes ago, nameless ronin said:

I wasn't hoping for anything crunchy, to be honest. L5R's biggest hurdle for new players is getting to know and understanding the setting. The mechanics are a breeze to learn in comparison. I was hoping for a bit more information regarding the circumstances of duels, about justice and the law (extremely important for magistrate PCs, which is a common role for them), and about general etiquette. It seems we're getting some of that, and in some cases more than I expected, but definitely not all of it.

Dunno, every podcasts I listened to so far that were using the corebook rules were totally screwing up the mechanics. Stuff like moving to pick up a weapon on the floor, readying it, moving toward the enemy two range bands away, and smashing it. All in one turn in fire stance was common stuff.

Or katana +2 dmg when 2 handed.

Or plenty of other examples.

Literally almost every turn there is a mistake lol.

So, either the rules are complicated, or the few people who did the podcasts are just not really good at it.

Edit; and yeah, youre not getting all of the info in EE, its really a surface look at a LOT of subjects. Which is perfect for me. If you really want more precise details, you will still probably to look at older editions, but I feel thry don't want 5th ed to be that precise.

Eh it's an RPG. In my experience the rules are just there to give you a framework and set expectations. Let the person who has run a campaign with no mistakes or hand waving throw the first stone I do think an RPG company should strive to get a good clean set of rules out, but I'm not gonna get down on a podcast (or any RPG group) for playing something wrong or hand waving stuff. Especially a podcast where sometimes you gotta consider whether getting too technical will actually make for good radio (spoilers most of the time it doesn't).

1 hour ago, Avatar111 said:

Dunno, every podcasts I listened to so far that were using the corebook rules were totally screwing up the mechanics. Stuff like moving to pick up a weapon on the floor, readying it, moving toward the enemy two range bands away, and smashing it. All in one turn in fire stance was common stuff.

Or katana +2 dmg when 2 handed.

Or plenty of other examples.

Literally almost every turn there is a mistake lol.

So, either the rules are complicated, or the few people who did the podcasts are just not really good at it.

based on personal experince...

90% of people who do podcast are simply looking fo attention and not really interested or have deep understanding of what they talk about/show...

the 10% left is actualy people who truly have interest in the argument and want to actualy share that interest and make it known to other people...

that's why I'm not surprised at all by people that make **** podcast where they either say nonsense or even disparge something without actualy having ever read/seen/tested it ^^'

15 minutes ago, phillos said:

Eh it's an RPG. In my experience the rules are just there to give you a framework and set expectations. Let the person who has run a campaign with no mistakes or hand waving throw the first stone I do think an RPG company should strive to get a good clean set of rules out, but I'm not gonna get down on a podcast (or any RPG group) for playing something wrong or hand waving stuff. Especially a podcast where sometimes you gotta consider whether getting too technical will actually make for good radio (spoilers most of the time it doesn't).

definitely, it is a GAME after all not a brain operation.

but when people get the system that off, and they were probably not RPG noobs, it means the system is either not clear in the way it is written, or that these particular players just didn't read it (or didn't care enough to get it right).

either way, I wouldn't call this game "simple" to understand. simple to play once understood ? yes, absolutely! But it is a very hard game to break into.