Argus Van Het said:

Forgive me for saying so, but it seems to me your motto is more like "punish them for succeeding"

I understand you want the capture of Eldar to be a significant event, but murdering the players whatever they do is merely going to make for players who don't take chances and feel they can't succeed. That kind of thinking may have some place in the Grimdark future, for some characters, but you don't want players feeling that way and Rogue Traders are hardly your run of the mill "never get ahead" types.

(that said, yeah look out for diseases - cross race breeding is full of dangers)

As for showing them mercy, I'd call that an awful idea ... you might spare yourself a smidge of Eldar wrath, but you still destroyed four of their ships and - what, hundreds? - of their people ... they aren't likely to look at the gesture and think "how marvelous, let's be friends!".

This one is a simple one.

Hand them over to the nearest eldar fleet/craftworld and make sure they are well treated, well fed and understand the fact that 3 other ships were destroyed is just the way things go sometimes.

Today you are the pigeon but tomorrow you may be the freshly polished car.

VarniusEisen said:

And what, precisely, does this net you? "Oh, sorry about your other ships and family, but you know, them's the breaks." Somehow I doubt that will suffice. If you're going to put yourself in a situation from whence you're likely to be killed, it is a much more profitable idea to sell the slaves, either to collectors or to the Inquisition (though in that case you don't call it selling) and prepare for a potential retaliation. Flying in to off your prisoners is the same as turning yourself over to the Eldar for punishment ... it seems ludicrous to assume they'll just forgive you for 300 deaths because you returned 20 survivors.

The diseases idea wasn't thought with the PC's in mind. A GM can make troubles without outright killing the PC's (hint: make some rolls behind a book, then say to the happy players enjoying point-ears intimate company "ok, you and you pass, you have a strange itch in... well, you don't wanna talk about it. And you, my friend, need to go to the doctor inmediately before that nasty looking... thing... spreads more! Ah, the crew... You lost 1d10+2 population and double that in morale due to a disease"). You know, if you want to make your character to enjoy some company, there are female crewman more than willing to get status and beneficts by being friendly to the officers of the ship (or male crewman). And if they want more refined company, there are pleasure worlds, and you won't even need to make an Acquisition test ^^.

And about turning the prisioners to the other eldars, that is not as complicated as it seems. Just go to nearly any planet, ask the prisioners where should you leave them so they can reach a webgate, give them some instrument to be sure you leave the system (and therefore won't know where the webgate is) and that's it. And about those three frigates (which by the way I don't know how much crew they use, but an imperial one carries 26.000 people just in crew...), if they attacked first, it was legitiamate defense. And if they don't like it, well, the ones who can't take the heat shouldn't go to the kitchen

I didn't read all of this forum. Only wanted to say that some GMs need to learn when to say "No."

Here's another option, should the Eldar somehow find out the Rogue Trader's identity they go about attacking human outposts throughout the region, looking to kill a total of 1000 humans for ever Eldar life lost in the conflict. They only kill about 10,000 per planet (or thereabouts) but leave a banner at each location identifying the Trader who murdered their number and blaming him for their retribution. They MAY offer to cease the mass retaliation if the Trader is turned over to them for punishment.

Even if they don't know his identity they can demand the Rogue Trader who murdered their people be turned over; the responsibility of discovering who that person is can just fall on the humans.

Jack, that is even more a "killing the PC's for being sucessfull" than my ideas XDDD. Also I don't think it goes with the Eldar way of working... but there are craftworlds and craftworlds, of course.

I still try to understand how a single ship could blew out three frigates and capture another two. I mean, even considering the best case scenario, that had to be a "the player's dice only rolled 01 and the GM's only 95" case... Or a pre-planned scenario by the eldar, who are using the Rogue Trader for their ends (and the destroyed frigates where just illusions).

Giving the OP the benefit of the doubt I'm assuming there are many elements of the scenario which he did not elucidate upon in order to keep things brief.

As for my last idea - yes it is cruel but here I was simply throwing out ideas in how the Eldar might deal with the situation. (considering they tend to have very low opinions of humans and are typically portrayed as not gladly killing them when it suits their purposes) The big issue here is the Eldar wouldn't know who to blame if the pcs hadn't released their slaves to go home and spread the word - for all they'd know their people were killed in an ork raid, or a local pirate action. But if the pcs were silly enough to let their prisoners go with all they knew, I'd be less forgiving of their behavior. (I like people to be successful, so long as they aren't going around making stupid mistakes - so for the record [and to stave off anyone who might try to argue the point] I never said getting rid of the Eldar slaves should be easy, merely doable.)

There is a lot of negative opinion on how bad an idea it is to grab some profit out of these prisoners. The Eldar are super-awesome and will pwn anyone who messes with them and what not.

Remember this is a fallen race of space-losers whose inability to keep it in their pants spawned a whole chaos god. What has the great Imperium to fear from such creatures?

Plus if I read the original poster correctly he wants to annoy the Eldar due to in-character stuff. Maybe he will get into trouble but what is a Rogue Trader without HUBRIS?

The question remains - are these elves worth a few shillings or not. I reckon they are but am interested in seeing other ideas on how to turn a profit.

How about a traveling rogue trader carnival with some Eldar fortune trellers to swindle the great and the good of the Imperium out of their trust-funds and inheritances. 'The Star-Gypsy told me to invest all my money in House <INSERT ROGUE TRADER DYNASTY HERE>'

Wait, you have Eldar Slaves? Volitor Implant them (or even use Obliviate Volitor if you play particular sadists) and use them as bid in Eye of the Needle. Exotic, rare and creepy offering no Witch could resist to take:-) Or sell them to Tutors of Red Schola in Footfall, they would be pleased as well (and still, Ordo Xenos would crap itself with glee for getting such a valuable "gift".)

But don´t be suprised when webway portals start to open all along your ship...

Uhm... Eldar civilization is MORE advanced than human one. It has also an incredible better amount of information about everything. They are less, of course, and the fact that they have been a too hard to play that it usually loses army in the table game (and in the computer game too, but there they are incredibly annoying once they begin to infiltrate ALL their buildings) tend to make people see them as "useless junk".

But they live 1000 years or so naturally. They are patient, and they can divinate the future so effortessly they can plan with centuries of advance. I think there is more profitable just to sell the wreckage of the three ships and less risky, if you ask me.

And the value would be assigned by the GM. It would be a Trade Mission, after all.

Well, as with any trade of rare items, their worth is measured in how much someone is willing to pay. In one location they may be next to worthless, in another worth everyone someone has. Finding the right customer for this sort of thing can be difficult unless you have contacts in the field of slave/xenos trading.

A fun wrench to throw into this sort of thing might come not from the Eldar themselves, but people who are obsessed with the desire to own an Eldar but do not have the means to pay for one - so they start trying other means of getting their hands on your supply, which need not always be violent. Someone with a lot of connections, say a city mayor or underboss in a criminal organization, might be able to make your life very easy or very difficult through their efforts to get what you have - depending if they try to bargain first, or if you even give them the chance.

Then you have the issue that, if Eldar are so well known for being precognizant, who is to say they didn't foresee this coming ... who is to say it isn't part of a larger plan so far reaching in its design that it is virtually unfathomable to a mere human? By taking these slaves and selling them the Trader might ultimately be putting into play a series of events which will result in the fall of an entire subsector some 300 years in the future. In this case the Eldar might only make a token effort to find and punish the RT, as he served their purposes. Might, in fact, be interesting to find out in a couple months of gameplay that this was the penultimate piece in a massive Eldar puzzle whose eventual repercussions the Rogue Trader gets to see come to fruitition ... now wouldn't that piss him off?

Hmmm...there's three things going on here that I see.

First, I too want to know how the OP "easily" outmaneuvered and destroyed that many Eldar vessels. If the stats being used were from Lure of the Expanse, that should have been one nasty, hard-fought fight.

Second, don't get too down on this "punishing the players for winning." Keep in mind that any opportunity for further interesting adventures should be taken and that actions will have consequences. It is in the nature of the Rogue Trader's life that actions that seem trivial at the time can build bitter lifelong rivalries and outright enemies. It could be that the capture of these Eldar isn't victory at all, but merely the first and most important step in deciding the course of the entire campaign to come. Wars have been started for by less, and by races less desperate to keep ahold of their dwindling population.

Third, the Eldar need to be the proactive ones in this case. Some nutjob barbarian just managed to brute-force their way into possession of oh-so-valuable Eldar females. Who knows what heroes those women are fated to birth in a dark and distant future? The Eldar do, at least. If this is not (as mentioned above) some bizzare, incomprehensible xenos plot to get the slave on board the Rogue Trader's vessel in the first place, the Eldar should be divining up incredible offers of trade for ransom. Just pray that the ransom the runes tell them is best doesn't turn out to be the safety of your ship.

This whole thing isn't a few profit points at the end of an Endeavor. It's basically an entire campaign arc being handed to the GM on a silver platter. Said GM needs to be jumping all over the opportunity here to come up with a dozen new interesting and challenging directions to take the campaign in from such a crossroads. (Also, the GM should be mentally revising their estimate of the PC's abilities and upgrading future challenges to match.)

Psychopomp said:

I think this is pretty much on point here.

From the Rogue Trader's perspective, something that I can't believe has not come up yet is the words "Ultra-exclusive Auction". It takes time, effort and a subtle use of resources, but you set up several months down the line an "invitation only" auction for movers and shakers. Then you allow just a few leaks of information that it is in the works so that other wealthy individuals and groups can sell their souls and betray each-other for a chance at an invitation, all for your future gain in wealth and information. Then may the bidding begin! Just keep your eyes wide open, because if the Inquisition hears so much as a whispered thought about this scheme then they are sure to infiltrate the event and can make things much more complicated. Welcome to politics and trade with the "big boys and girls" in the 41st millenium.

From a GM's perspective this is a goldmine of potential story development both in the immediate and long term. Maybe after they auction off the bulk of their prisoners things go back to the "mundane and routine" (evil laughter here) of a Rogue Trader's adventures for ten or twenty years. Then suddenly something very strange begins to happen as the families of the missing Eldar begin to make their displeasure known in creative and inconvienient ways. Think of Beowulf, where the "glorious deeds" of your past come back to revisit themselves as your own personal hell later in life, once you have had the chance to bask in the success of those past deeds. It is not an accident that the most common Eldar aspect warriors' shrine name translates roughly as "Dire Avengers", and these are the relative "good guys" of Eldar society... Now if it were instead their more Dark cousins then perhaps they might kidnap the Rogue Trader's wife and slowly flay the flesh from her body, all the while keeping her very much alive and lucid, but oh so very insane... Then they begin the real torture, to linger over the span of years... And they are thoughtful enough to make regular deliveries to the Rogue Trader of a psyk-charged orb or crystal that contains the painstakingly recorded feelings of his lost wife as she is tortured over those long years.

Zylla, that last part about torture and all is not Eldar, but Dark Eldar, so they would simply hand her to Commoragh and use the Arlequins to deliver the crystals...

But we all agree this has not ended

Hmm, interesting topic. As tempting as it might be to ask your GM what they were thinking about the Eldar flotilla I'll actually try answering the original post.

1: as above, the auction is a very good, very lucrative idea. The amount of favours and other, more currency based, kinds of rewards you could get out of this would be great. Look out for the inquisition or, even worse, a Farseer trying to infiltrate the venue though (they probably know when it’s going to happen, after all).

2: Trading them back to their fellows isn't as bad an idea as it seems. Even the most common items of their wraithbone and technology are extremely valuable, and the Eldar value their lives more then shuriken cannons. It also solves the inquisition problem to a degree ("These shuriken catapults? We looted them from dead Xenos scum, milord. Would you like a sample? The price? consider it a favour...")

Any other option is really a waste. I'm not sure what the fluff says about eldar/human crossbreeds, but you can bet every throne your explorers have that using them as whores for the crew will not pay nearly as well as two options above.
One point that I'm curious about, how you know that they're civilians? Eldar ships require much less crew then imperial ones and don't, as a rule, carry civilians. Watch them carefully, given that the eldar militia (guardians) are usually better then trained and professional guardsmen. Best of luck.

Haven't read through all the comments yet but I have to agree with the general sentiment; Wayward, you clearly don't have a clue how much of an opprotunity you've been given or how much trouble you've gotten yourself into. I don't think there's a way to represent the bump in straight Profit Factor you're sitting on that isn't gamebreaking.

I have to agree with Zilla and Psychopomp. There are two ways you can go, neither without risk and both represent a shot at incredible rewards. You could hold the auction. Nobles would literally be at each others throats for the chance to bid their entire estates just for one night with a xeno woman. The endeavor would bring you and your party wealth beyond measure, the dynasty would be right there next to one of the major houses of Calixus. On the flipside, odds are pretty good this would attract the attention of both an Eldar warband AND an Inquistor and his retinue. And odds are that you'd be right there in the crossfire.

On the other hand, you could take your astropath, archmilitant, and the other biggest, meanest, and scariest member of the party down with you to the Eldar's chamber; ask them how to dial their craftworld. Now time to think, is there anything that would be really cool to have or go see; like the location of several treasure planets? This is your chance to write up a wishlist to your GM and essentially haggle with both of them at once. Whatever they are willing to give up is whatever he's willing to give you.

And like several others had said, I'd watch my back if I were you. If you've been a real pain to the GM, those captives might just be a Harlequin Storyteller and her troupe. If that is the case, then you might end up conducting negotiations of a completely different variety.

An exclusive auction at Footfall would, to my mind, be the best way to dispose of Eldar slaves. Having read "Lure of the Expanse", there's a very good example of such an auction taking place there. The Red Schola is a slaver station dealing in exotic slaves and well versed in diverse methods of breaking and training them- either sell them to the Red Schola direct, or have them break the slaves for you and allow them to keep a percentage as the fee (exact percentage dependent on Commerce roll).

Footfall is, according to LotE, visited by Eldar Corsairs on occasion with there even being a section entirely devoted to housing Xenos visitors. This means that the Eldar will doubtless hear of the auction, which isn't necessarily a bad thing- if they want to bid in the auction, or just make an offer before it starts, let them.

The many schools of thought on how the Eldar could, would and should wreck unstoppable vengeance on the RT responsible all fail to take into account one simple fact.

The Eldar are a dying race.

They're every bit as powerful and capable as people have made them out to be- but they just don't have the numbers. Since the RT has shown he can eliminate several Eldar ships in space combat, they won't try a direct confrontation again. Nor will they go into a fury of revenge all across the Koronus Expanse. The Eldar are the masters of hit and run warfare, not just by inclination but by necessity. They won't try to take a thousand human lives for every slain Eldar as someone suggested, because they're well aware that in that sort of contest the human race STILL comes out ahead. The Eldar usually win battles, but rarely win wars- any victory is a Phyrric one for them, unless they somehow pull it off without a single Eldar life being lost.

So if they do seek revenge, it'll never be in a straight fight. They might raid his holdings and trade routes, then vanish when he tries to find them. They might have a single ship tail him for decades then have it pounce just as it's nearly crippled after some other epic battle with a different foe. They might sneak assassins onto a planet they know he visits and have a sniper kill him before vanishing back into the Webway. Always look at a confrontation with the Eldar- unless something very important to them is at stake, the Eldar should NEVER stand and fight without an overwhelming advantage.

Most likely of all, to me, is that once the Eldar slaves are out of the RTs hands, the Eldar wouldn't bother pursuing him. He's shown he's too dangerous, and not worth the price killing him would exact even if they succeed. If chance happens to give them a shot at him later on- and being the Eldar, they WILL know if such a chance is coming- they'll take it. If not, such is Fate.

Personally, I'd advertise the slaves for sale at Footfall then take the best offer the Eldar can be talked into. No amount of Profit can balance against an Eldar Runecaster fitted to your Flagship, or a couple of Wraith Cannons mounted on you favourite Guncutter.

Tantavalist said:

And the runecaster said "KABOOM". And the cannon will fail in the less convienient moment.

Sorry, betray fit me so much to Eldars.

From the ideas, this whole action event seems to be the best, good profit, new connections, nice 'evil' factor, and great plot options.

The RT could be killed, but its worth. The Glory will last forever.

I think it would be amusing if he did end up selling off the Eldar to some debauched noble, and then the Eldar murder said noble and escape. Turns out this xeno-obsessed noble was seen to one day purchase a xeno artifact and accidentely awaken a bunch of Necron when he fiddled with it. The RT weeks after the trade finds a note somewhere on his shape simply thanking the Monkeigh for his assistance in being so predictable and they may use him in the future

Plenty of ways for this to play out, some good, some bad, some middle of the road, just like you'd expect a good plot hook to be or a derailing of the plot wagon

Ok, let's assume that the Eldar are falible because... well, they are. They got caught with their pants down, the RT got a few lucky crits (which is really all it takes) and that is' not some elaborate plot (it could be, by all means, but for sake of arguement, let's go with what the OP/RT knows to be true, not what his GM may have up his sleeve).

You want to sell them as slaves, excellent, should they be worth profit factor? Absolutely, a small fortune worth of PF, afterall it's like fencing a living xeno artifact. Selling them off becomes a Major Endeavor with different parts to it. The auction idea is probably the juiciest and best one out of the grand lot for making money. First, you'll need to secure your cargo. yes yes, you have them captive, but this is a long process selling something so valuable. You'll need a secure prison, or some other form (volitor implants I've heard mentioned several times) to make sure your cash cow doesn't escape. You'll need to find buyers, find a way to secretly contact them (or, you could go the not secret route and invite the Ordo Xenos & Others down on your head as they attempt to steal what you've rightfully stolen.). You'll need to set up the auction itself, the trappings, the whole 9 yards. I recommend being sure to do this OUTSIDE Imperial Space, preferably on some world you have ownership of in the Koronus Expanse. This could be another step and smaller endeavor all to itself. Why go out of my way, why not hawk'em on Footfall? Because that is where your word is law, that is where the bounds of the Imperium no longer apply to you. The Inquisition can be pissed at you for doing it, some of them may well be, but out there, Your voice is that of the God-Emperor himself. The real hardline puritans won't touch you out there because it's against the rules, and they play by the rules. The more radical ones wont' care, heck, they might want a spot at the auction (and it's smart if one of them contacts you and asks, you say, yes, because a radical will most likely NOT play by the rules, and may decide to try to covertly ****** them instead). You could, in the most Rogue Tradery fashion, procure the information of where these Eldar pirates originate from and send an invitation to their home (craftworld, maidenworld, corm, whichever). It would be that, over the top flaunt the RT is looking for, while still giving them the option of pulling their kinsmen out of the fire. Some Craftworlds might not care, remember that Corsairs are on the Outcast path, they're two steps shy of being Dark Eldar, and who knows, maybe a Farseer who didn't like them SENT them out there to die, they play dirty politics just like humans do, only the stakes are far... higher, when your race is dying. Now, it seems real simple and straightforward, but of course, a good GM will find ways to make it complex with problems, that's what they're there for

All of this keeps in mind that the RT actually won, and is non-punishing to the player for being inventive. Now, what happens AFTER he's had his cake... that is a different story altogether. The Eldar are old, they live long, they don't forget. Unless you put them all the captives to the sword, it's silly not to think that such a deed, the kind that stories are made about, would not eventually get back to them and other Imperial Purists who might take exception. In the short run, the Big I will be keeping a closer lookout, those Ordo Xenos radicals with Eldar allies may look to turn you in to curry favor for some larger picture, the Ultra-Puritan will look for reasons to put you on the pyre for simply coming in contact with the unclean, or some up and coming Inquisitor might look to make a name for himself by bringing down an "infamous" rogue trader house. The Eldar are likely to wait, patience and longevity is their virtue. THEY might not take a stab at the RT, but that doesn't mean they can't rig it so an Ork Freeboota flotilla doesn't stumble upon some of your cash worlds (if they can do it to Armageddon... well, you can see where I'd go with that), they could simply give aid to one of the RT's rivals, lots of behind the scenes dealings that doesnt' put them in harm's way at all and may take years or decades to set up, they have the time afterall. These outcomes aren't punishment for the PC's winning, they're deepening plotlines.

In the end, goodluck to you heh. As a scandalous RT my own self, I hope you get a glorious adventure and story out of it, because, that's what it's all about. Keep us posted on the outcome, I'm dying to know how it all pans out

Oh, one more then, when those eldar get sold, expect them to come back to haunt you if even one survives heh. There's a saying, never leave a man, woman or child behind you that can ever carry a sword, you'll be leaving several ageless ones behind you plotting vengeance even if their home doesn't give a **** about them, I'd expect some form of pointy eared payback down the line from any that may survive.