18 minutes ago, Suimaru said:

That'll probably end up being the Shugenja, that goes the way of heroic sacrifice, if they fall. Their answer to the question of how they would like their character to die was: protecting others.

Quite possibly. A Fire-driven shujenga is also mechanically a good choice (provided the player is okay with it) because if they ever decide "bugger this for a game of tin soldiers" and take their own survival off the table as a requirement of victory, they can pull of some devastating stuff.

Read the rules for Spiritual Backlash on page 190 and compare to the rules for the invocation Breath Of The Fire Dragon on page 202:

• Available Day 1, Session 1 via Importune Invocations - so it's not a case of 'not knowing the ability' - but admittedly will be TN6 for a rank 1 character and TN5 for a rank 2 character, and will stop you channelling more than once.
  • On the other hand, if it's 'flaming magical kamikaze time' then presumably every void point, advantage, and TN-reducing trick you can muster will be being thrown at this....
• Triggering spiritual backlash voluntarily means keeping 3 strife results, and will also take 3 fatigue
• The effect is ridiculous when it goes out of control, striking every single character within range 0-3 (yes, that includes you and probably the rest of the party too so some co-ordination is desirable!), causing your fire ring plus double your bonus successes in armour-penetrating supernatural damage plus the burning condition (which is 3 strife and 3 deadliness 5 damage after they take an action) plus another chunk of supernatural damage equal to your fire ring if they're within range 1 of anyone else hit by the same invocation.

The character is going end up medium rare at best, but as "I will hold off a small army whilst you [finish the story]" its up there with a Shosuro Master using The Final Silence.

Well, back again. My Shugenja player took an Asako as a sworn enemy, with the backstory of it being one of his ancestors had stolen the secrets of an invocation from them (The Fires from Within). I'm not really sure what to do with this Asako. Not sure if I should make them a Shugenja so that, if it comes down to it, they can do a Taryu-Jiai (to incapacitation) to settle the grudge they have, since Shugenja are rare and valuable, one or the other dying would be a big no no, there'd probably be other stipulations, some for of reparations should the player lose, I dunno what to do if the player wins, other than having the Asako NPC just move on and give up their grudge or go with the other options within the clan.

As for the whole conflict between the player and this NPC, I was thinking of maybe surprising my player with a revelation that it wasn't stolen but rather shared but some misunderstanding happened that blew the whole thing out of proportion (which resulted in the player's ancestor being accused of stealing) not sure if that'd be a good idea (since the player took stolen knowledge started with reduced honor for it) if I were to do that and there was proof that his ancestor did not steal the knowledge of the invocation, would it be appropriate to have the player gain back the honor lost from Stolen Knowledge?

I'll be back later with the other players ideas, the others are playing Unicorn and Crab and said they are coming up with interesting ideas, as well.

Also, sorry for coming in here asking things I should be working on myself, it's been many years since I was a GM, so I'm feeling a bit rusty.

I run games almost every week and still want advice on L5R. The world is nothing like anything I normally run, and I find myself overwhelmed trying to think about everything that's supposed to be going on at any given moment. The willingness of people to help on this stuff is fantastic. I do the same for stuff I'm comfortable with, and I think it's just a desire to see other people enjoy the hobby as much as I do. So don't feel bad!

57 minutes ago, Suimaru said:

if I were to do that and there was proof that his ancestor did not steal the knowledge of the invocation, would it be appropriate to have the player gain back the honor lost from Stolen Knowledge?

Yes it would. He might even gain extra honor thanks to his effort in overcoming a generational grudge between families.

As for the bigger question of what to do with the NPC, there's no easy answer. Some ideas to point you forward:

• How interesting is this rivalry? If both sides make for interesting characters and story and your player is continually invested in this rivalry, consider making this NPC recurring, more potent and putting in obstacles so that this NPC cannot just be taken out right. Only resolve the rivalry when a satisfactory climax has been reached (one side tips over the point of no return by killing someone close to the other, etc.)
• On the other hand, if it turns out not to be as interesting as you or the player had hoped, that's totally fine. Consider resolving it faster and make room for more interesting follow-up adventures based around the player's character

Notice how you actually need to play to find out most of the answers. So don't over-plan. Plan enough to sustain 3-5 sessions and gauge the result.

1 hour ago, Suimaru said:

there'd probably be other stipulations, some for of reparations should the player lose

Consider what makes the most interesting story. A character should never be without conflict between giri and ninjo. So if the duel is resolved, you'll need to find something else to replace it. Is the character selfish and a bit of a lone-wolf? Make the Asako a subordinate to the character and forces them to be responsible for their once-rival. Has the character always embraced peaceful negotiations over violence in resolving this rivalry? Introduce something drastic that forces the character to do things differently (a vengeful murder from the Asoka side, etc.)

This is not an easy question. Again it will come down to the actual in-game journey undertaken by the character thus far and from there, you have to decide (perhaps together with the player) what's the best route to continue

Thanks, that's very helpful. Gives me a good bit to work with, looks like I'll have a lot to talk to this player about, well, all 3 of them actually, as the other two have given me a taste of what they want to do.

Well, the Unicorn clan player got back to me with his character's Ninjo. Quite frankly... I don't see how that can be done.

He wants to turn the Unicorn clan into Lost, he took Dark Secret, because if anyone found out, oh boy....

Now, this kinda works out, as I was planning to involve the shadowlands in this but I don't really think he'd be able to succeed at this. Pretty well certain at least one, if not both, players characters would be more than unwilling to let this happen (especially the Crab player's character)

34 minutes ago, Suimaru said:

He wants to turn the Unicorn clan into Lost, he took Dark Secret, because if anyone found out, oh boy....

Okay....so. Not thinking small, here. Is there a particular reason he wants to destroy the clan? Does he just want the unicorn to embrace the taint, or the whole empire, or what?

Might I suggest taking at least one Shadowlands Taint as a disadvantage, as well?

36 minutes ago, Suimaru said:

Now, this kinda works out, as I was planning to involve the shadowlands in this but I don't really think he'd be able to succeed at this. Pretty well certain at least one, if not both, players characters would be more than unwilling to let this happen (especially the Crab player's character)

Well, the Unicorn Clan as a whole would kind of object, too. Quietly spreading the taint amongst the clan's members or trying to ensure the ascension of tainted members is a 'realistic' think to do that fits under that ninjo (which is probably unattainable by one person in one lifetime, but don't let that stop them.....)

Becoming Elemental Master Of Fire is pretty ridiculous too, on the face of it, for a starting character's goal, but it's a goal you can work towards, even if you never make it.

If the player isn't/hasn't come across it, might I suggest digging out a Dark Moto character to act as a campaign 'big bad' when you involve the shadowlands - I just posted in another thread; they were in the Beta rules but aren't in the core rulebook for some reason and they're a suitably terrifying foe - which he can either face and be confronted by the genuine horror of what a Lost Unicorn family would be reduced to (which might be dramatic enough to change his Ninjo) or else provide some serious rivalry with an impressive opponent that he'd like to secretly ally with.

Dark Moto (Adversary)

In the years since their return, the Unicorn Clan has suffered no folly greater than that of the Moto family, whose warriors rode into the Shadowlands to crush its evil under their hooves. This catastrophic venture crippled the Moto family and created the so-called "Dark Moto"—a legion of lost samurai atop unholy steeds, who now hunger only for the annihilation of Rokugan.

Earth 3 Water 3 Air 4 Fire 2 Void 2

Endurance 10 Composure 9 Focus 5 Vigilance 2

Conflict Rank: Combat 4, Intrigue 2

Skills: Martial 3, Trade 2, Survival 4

Advantages: Unholy Vigor (Earth) [Martial; Physical, Spiritual], Precise Aim (Air) [Martial; Physical]

Disadvantages: Shadowlands Taint (Air) [Social; Interpersonal, Spiritual]

Demeanor: Assertive (Earth +2, Water –2)

Honor: 29 Glory: 50 Status: 10

Abilities:

[Should probably be namechecked as a Tainted being]

Hellish Rider (After the Dark Moto performs an Attack action while mounted, each character at range 0–2 of the target must resist with a TN 3 Meditation (Earth 1, Water 5) check or suffer the Disoriented condition.)

Onikage Mount

The Dark Moto is mounted on an unholy steed. If a profile is needed for this creature, it is a Unicorn Warhorse with the Shadowlands Creature ability and the Withering Breath ability, which allows the Dark Moto to spend * as follows when performing an Attack action:

** : Each character at range 0–2 of the target suffers 3 supernatural damage. If Disoriented, that character suffers 6 supernatural damage instead. Characters with the Shadowlands Creature ability ignore this effect.

Gear: Daishō (katana [Range 1, Damage 4, Deadliness 5/7, Ceremonial, Razor-edged] and wakizashi [Range 0–1, Damage 4, Deadliness 5/7, Ceremonial, Razor-edged]), yari (Range 2, Damage 5, Deadliness 3, Wargear) or naginata (Range 2, Damage 6, Deadliness 6, Cumbersome, Wargear), yumi (Range 2–5, Damage 5, Deadliness 3), knife (Range 0, Damage 2, Deadliness 4, Concealable, Mundane, Razor-Edged), centuries-old lacquered armor (Physical 4, Damaged).

Well, that is quite the adversary. I got more insight on why the character is seeking this out. Turns out the character has the Incurable Illness disadvantage so the character is attempting to overcome the illness by becoming an undead on the level of Tsume Moto, a very bad idea and one the character will learn is a bad idea, even if it's too late (player is aware this may backfire and result is a less than ideal ending for him.)

1 hour ago, Suimaru said:

I don't see how that can be done.

DISCLAIMER: My opinion only.

It can be done IF you run that kind of game. But I fail to see how it can be a side thing. Turning an entire Great Clan into mindless servants of an unexplicable evil is not something a starting character can use his down time to achieve. Even a clan champion might face extreme adversity if he/she wants to achieve this. Not only the Unicorn but anyone who gets a whiff of this will probably want to intervene. Your whole campaign will need to focus on this if you want to do it justice.

Another big IF is that the other players (if not PCs) need to know about this. Having a surprise in-game betray that kill all other players' characters is usually not a pleasant thing. Unless you get the other players on-board, I would advise against this (again, read disclaimer)

There needs to be a good reason for doing so, as @Magnus Grendel has mentioned. No one in their right mind will just decide to turn his whole clan into Lost. If the in-character reason is not strong and interesting enough, then it will just turn into a game of grieffing. I usually think playing L5R within the setting is exciting enough and trying to "break" the setting usually results in suboptimal results. There are better games for that.

EDIT: since you posted more about the player's actual motivation, my follow-up is that I fail to see how he needs to turn the entire clan. Should it be just a desperate solution for himself? Also the time it would take to turn the entire clan doesn't gel with the emergency of the illness.

9 minutes ago, Suimaru said:

Well, that is quite the adversary. I got more insight on why the character is seeking this out. Turns out the character has the Incurable Illness disadvantage so the character is attempting to overcome the illness by becoming an undead on the level of Tsume Moto, a very bad idea and one the character will learn is a bad idea, even if it's too late (player is aware this may backfire and result is a less than ideal ending for him.)

If they're aware as a player, then fine. That to me sounds more like "join the Dark Moto" than "corrupt the Unicorn clan", though - their primary motivation is their own survival.

@broselovestar Ninja-ed (well...shinobi-ed, anyway)

9 minutes ago, Suimaru said:

Well, that is quite the adversary.

From experience with A Ronin's Path, they really are. During the battle in that adventure Moto Morikazu came within a hair of killing two PCs, even in a two-on-one fight.

Air 4, Martial Arts (melee) 3, skilled assistance and a Naginata is a seriously terminal thing to be hit with, especially since Disoriented makes the Guard action TN3.

His primary goal with this is to get rid of his incurable illness, secondary part is to make the unicorn clan see "reason" and realize they can survive better that way (even he thinks that part is unlikely to go well for him, we still have a few days before I need everything ready so he has time to decide)

The crab player's ninjo is easy. They are playing a Kaiu Engineer who plans to make highly improved mobile siege weaponry to help defend the wall and make it easier to fight (said character also wants to join in the fighting rather than fire siege weapons from atop the wall, which is the reason for the mobile siege weaponry)

Just now, Suimaru said:

They are playing a Kaiu Engineer who plans to make highly improved mobile siege weaponry to help defend the wall and make it easier to fight

Can I say I love players like this who just wants to do good things for everyone

1 minute ago, Suimaru said:

His primary goal with this is to get rid of his incurable illness, secondary part is to make the unicorn clan see "reason" and realize they can survive better that way

This might make sense. I think logically he will just want to be turned Lost first - he has no idea how that will work out before turning. Also there's living evidence (Dark Moto) of how badly that has actually turned out for the clan. So I still don't quite see the second part making sense.

That said, once he's Lost, he'll likely be an NPC unless the other players are Lost too (or are somehow debase samurai with 0 honor. Otherwise they just literally can't travel together.) Then that NPC can go on to do its plan while the group of (new and old) PCs tries to stop it. That would make an interesting story: confronting your old comrade

6 minutes ago, Suimaru said:

The crab player's ninjo is easy. They are playing a Kaiu Engineer who plans to make highly improved mobile siege weaponry to help defend the wall and make it easier to fight (said character also wants to join in the fighting rather than fire siege weapons from atop the wall, which is the reason for the mobile siege weaponry)

Also from the Beta adventure, if it's useful, are the stats for a medium ballista, which could be 'invented':

Watchtower Ballista

The ballistae are much too large for a single person to heft easily, but they can be adjusted once in place. As an action, a character at range 0–1 of a ballista may make a TN 1 Labor (Water) check to adjust its mountings or a TN 2 Fitness (Water) check to simply force it into place. Then, any character at range 0 of the ballista may fire it, using the following profile. Each weapon has five bolts loaded, and it must be reloaded (as an action) after these are fired.

Skill - Martial Arts (Ranged)

Range - 2-5

Damage - 12

Deadliness - 10

And no, you can't pick that as a weapon to manifest using Bo of Water.

Kinda hoping the Dark Moto will aid in changing the characters mind about the whole thing.

That Ballista is quite interesting.

3 hours ago, Suimaru said:

That Ballista is quite interesting.

It didn't hurt that the bushi manning it during the scene in A Ronin's Path was a Kakita Duellist.

"There's a shaman rallying the cohort..."

KA-THWACK!

"...Or not."

Landing a Severity 10+School Rank critical at a target at range 5 is....yeah. 'Old Prickly' was basically nailed to a nearby cliff.

10 minutes ago, Magnus Grendel said:

It didn't hurt that the bushi manning it during the scene in A Ronin's Path was a Kakita Duellist.

Why isn't there a fun adventure like this in the actual core book? For me that's the most lacking thing about the book

2 minutes ago, broselovestar said:

Why isn't there a fun adventure like this in the actual core book? For me that's the most lacking thing about the book

It surprised me too; I think it's the first Fantasy Flight RPG core rulebook not to have an adventure in it. I was rather surprised.

There's supposed to be one coming in the GM's kit - set in Slow Tide Harbour - which follows on from The Topaz Championship and In The Palace Of The Emerald Champion, but I was rather surprised we never got one in the core book.

I'm also slightly bugged that FFG never made Wedding at Kyotei Castle available.

As a long time fan of the Star Wars book, yes it weirded me out to no end. I usually find myself inundated with Star Wars adventure before. It's extra painful when coming up with a good story in Rokugan is harder than in Star Wars (terms and conditions applied) and that coming from someone who has played L5R before.

7 minutes ago, Magnus Grendel said:

Wedding at Kyotei Castle

this too ...

22 minutes ago, broselovestar said:

As a long time fan of the Star Wars book, yes it weirded me out to no end. I usually find myself inundated with Star Wars adventure before. It's extra painful when coming up with a good story in Rokugan is harder than in Star Wars (terms and conditions applied) and that coming from someone who has played L5R before.

It's not just the star wars ones.

The 40k RPGs (Like Only War or Rogue Trader) had a FreeRPG Day/Download 'Taster' (simplified with prebuilt characters, equivalent to the beginner box versions), a second DLC 'follow-on', an adventure in the Core Book and an adventure in the GM's Guide.

16 hours ago, broselovestar said:

DISCLAIMER: My opinion only.

It can be done IF you run that kind of game. But I fail to see how it can be a side thing. Turning an entire Great Clan into mindless servants of an unexplicable evil is not something a starting character can use his down time to achieve.
@Magnus Grendel

Perhaps a 'middle path' is to have the Unicorn PC think the clan is lost because his immediate family, the lord they serve, and that lord's other samurai are lost. But maybe they've been lied to by their lord.

Didn't at one point in the previous timeline, Shinjo came back and kicked Unicorn butt because most of them were corrupted by the Kolat? A big chunk of the Unicorn being corrupted is not, IIRC, beyond the pale in terms of storyline.

YMMV but...I doubt I'd give a player free reign to dictate to me (the GM) that an entire clan be lost, if I had other plans for it. But I'd probably give them the freedom to have their backstory include the fact that a bunch of the clan had been corrupted by one evil or another.

17 minutes ago, easl said:

his immediate family, the lord they serve, and that lord's other samurai are lost.

Yes this works. The immediate background of the character is usually more malleble and contained. It will change your player's intention about the disease a little but it's certainly more believable and possible to be influenced by your player's character

Your phoenix character is relatively simple in my opinion. He wants to become the elemental master of fire, but his lord is assigning him to do some task that involves doing things other than studying and growing more powerful. Honestly, I don't see Giri as being entirely, or even mostly, up to the players. If you're running a game for emerald magistrates for example, the PC's Giri is probably "emerald magistrate". I don't mean to sound as if that's the only possible Giri for such a campaign, but it seems like it would make a perfectly good Giri for most characters.. sometimes while serving the emerald champion, you will have to put your own desires aside and help the empire.. or maybe you won't and you'll become a corrupt magistrate instead. My point being, the GM role-play's the Lord, and so has significant say in what each character's Giri is and how it comes into play. In other words, if your player is having trouble coming up with a Giri, you can give him one until someone finds one that you both think is better.

Onto the Unicorn, I think there's problems. First of all, although they don't seem to mention them for some reason, the Moto white-guard should exist in this time-period and are capable of weeding out those with shadowlands taint. Furthermore, he's in the one clan for which the Kami has promised to "always return".. so he needs to figure out what he's going to tell Shinjo when she comes back (she does so every so often). Also, there are other "known" methods of gaining supernatural health.. such as being blessed by the Kami, being blessed by the fortune of health, and becoming enlightened. Could I also point out that Maho would be a perfectly (un)acceptable alternative to becoming an undead. Why someone would see a bunch of zombies and Skeletons and say "Yeah! I want to be like that guy!" I have no idea. However, far be it from me to "yuck someone's yum". If you wanted to take the campaign in this direction, there's nothing really stopping you from turning it that way.. while the Unicorn have lost almost an entire family to the shadowlands, the Crab still by far are the most numerous of the lost. Meanwhile, certain power hungry and arrogant Pheonix shugenja have turned to the dark-side as well.

Well, I have quite the odd thing going on. Doing the beta test's pre-made, they got to the point where they got challenged to a duel by Keinosuke, the Unicorn player accepted and he won the duel but all he did was complain about how his opponent was obviously better than his character and must have had extra points, even after he won. Which has me worried when they get to the fight with the demon cause that thing is way stronger than he is. The other players have been pretty cool with it, other than the Crab player making some complaints about how they can be challenged to a duel, something about disliking the fact that it can even be done. Kinda makes me not want to put more duels in but doing that just doesn't sit well with me, since it's part of the setting of the game as a whole.

Also but worried about the Unicorn and Crab player for other reasons, they seem way overly cautious about strife. The Crab player actually went over their composure but refused to even unmask, I dunno if they have some negative view of it or not but I should probably let it come back to bite them, when they have more strife than composure and can't keep strife dice when compromised.

I'm aware that the second part is more a thing I'll have to try and get them over, just not exactly sure how I should go about it.

The last thing I'm not sure about is Famously Honest.

I feel like it's going to be a problem because of this part

Other people have heard of you for your honesty, and they believe you by default unless
given evidence to the contrary

this just makes it possible for them to undermine a lot of stuff and I see no real way around it, it almost completely ruined something I had planned. I don't have any idea how I'm supposed to have that player not just convince every NPC he's right, am I supposed to have other NPCs just be more convincing (not sure anything short of physical evidence they are lying would even work, which makes it harder for naturally convincing NPCs to do their job)

In this game. The GM do what he wants and the players should accept that without frustrations. because the rules are awfully loose, If you take everything "as written" you will have a terrible experience and will lose control. As a GM Just do what you want while trying to make sure the players have fun and forget about the rules.

Well, so firstly, Famously Honest still means they have to have heard of you. Middling glory baby samurai probably aren't that well known in a pre-social media landscape. You climb a mountain in Dragon lands to talk to the head of a monastery and you're a Crab known for being honest down at the Wall, he has no way to get news of you - so obviously it's not universal.

Second is just give them evidence to the contrary. Which in Rokugan means somebody with higher Status said it, because only the Kitsuki care about physical evidence. You still can't go around contradicting people more important than you, or your glory will start taking hits. Also if they're lying selfishly a lot start siphoning off that Honor. Pretty sure that's not acting with Honor, Sincerity or Righteousness.