12 hours ago, ficklegreendice said:

Vader is $$$

I think Palp is underrated, but I also think the current meta's stifling of lower I pilots is suppressing his true potential

palp is really great on a generic reaper, as the ship is surprisingly mobile and also prone to not getting actions when its fat *** keeps bumping into ****

I'm the broken-record Palp-Defenders guy. Omicron (white coordinate!) with Palp, two Deltas. There's a lot of risk-taking you can do with a Defender when you've got a force charge you can spend to back them up. Taking Locks and Boost/Barrel Roll for position goes a long way. But Defenders are well-suited to Palp, both because they've got a massive stack of 4 shields, and their Full Throttle Evades. I feel like trying to use Palp to back up The Grand Inquisitor or Darth Vader isn't going to get as far. Palp backing up Whisper kind of makes sense, though, since she'll often have two Evade tokens.

That said, I keep hoping for a local Quickbuild event, so I have an excuse to bring Admiral Sloane (she rides the Omicron) instead of Palpatine. I haven't flown the list without Palp, so I don't know how much he really matters, as opposed to just the Engines of Inevitability in the two Deltas, plus the decently-buffed Lambda. I'd totally try flying Vader instead, if the points worked out, but they don't.

45 minutes ago, dotswarlock said:

Maul's point cost will be justified when we see what dark side powers he can use. For now, he does feel overcosted. The nice thing about Whisper with Vader crew is that with more and more people using him, it helps define the meta... which helps me use the right squad to beat him

I think Maul mostly needs a better ship. If the Lancer (I think Ketsu probably is better than Asajj in 2e) had a 3-dice mobile arc and a Boost action, he'd be really good there. The Lancer has a good way to deal with the stress from Maul, and having two force points for his 13 point cost isn't too bad. If Han gunner didn't exist, having a Maul Boba isn't too bad. Two force tokens per turn, plus his normal action, if you're on Blue moves. But Han Gunner is going to be a much better use of the stress than Maul, and Maul is 13 points compared to the measly 7 of Han/Marauder. There's no contest, because Scum have such cheap alternatives.

As to Dark Side Powers, my guess is that it'll be the equivalent of having Ruthless or Fearless as a Rebel player. There might be a few good combos, but mostly nothing too extreme.

Sabine is the best Lancer. Bring Maul's cost down a few points and a Sabine/Maul Lancer becomes a pretty good option.

32 minutes ago, SOTL said:

Agree. If you could make a Striker in 1.0 that didn't have a bomb/gunner you can make a Phantom in 2.0 that doesn't have a crew

Or just convert it to a Gunner slot.

That would not solve much... The issue is the phantom platfirm just does not need the help.

Giving the phantom access to fifth brother instead of Vader would not change much for those builds.

If people find phantom + Vader powerful they would find phantom + fifth brother powerful.

Now I am not against giving fifth brother a decent ride, so maybe it's not such a bad idea. Vader allready has other rides available, not so much for fifth brother.

5 minutes ago, Icelom said:

That would not solve much... The issue is the phantom platfirm just does not need the help.

Giving the phantom access to fifth brother instead of Vader would not change much for those builds.

If people find phantom + Vader powerful they would find phantom + fifth brother powerful.

Now I am not against giving fifth brother a decent ride, so maybe it's not such a bad idea. Vader allready has other rides available, not so much for fifth brother.

Vader token strip plays into Juke in a way that 5th Brother doesn't If you're playing Whisper and using the Force token for a focus mod then most of the time you're doing it wrong.

3 hours ago, JJ48 said:

Maybe because they've already had years of flying large transports, and just want to enjoy finally being able to fly small ships again.

Everyone takes the same 5-6 ships anyways. Don’t think they quite care whether it’s small, medium, or large. If it’s proven, they’ll take it. If someone goes to a large event with a large base and does well people will start running it, just no one has taken any.

Phantom Crew slot is something that should never have carrier over to 2.0.

Or Vader should have been a double slot.

7 minutes ago, Quack Shot said:

Everyone takes the same 5-6 ships anyways. Don’t think they quite care whether it’s small, medium, or large. If it’s proven, they’ll take it. If someone goes to a large event with a large base and does well people will start running it, just no one has taken any.

Ah, I don't attend or follow organized events. So I can't speak to that. At my local game night, people are playing different things every week. (Unfortunately, it's 90% Scum, but still...)

6 minutes ago, impspy said:

Phantom Crew slot is something that should never have carrier over to 2.0.

Or Vader should have been a double slot.

It does seem like it would get a little cramped in there for him.

8 minutes ago, JJ48 said:

It does seem like it would get a little cramped in there for him.

Darth Vader is over 2 meters tall (6'6")

This is the size of the Phantom cockpit:

Unless Whisper is sitting in Vader's lap I don't see how this works.

8 minutes ago, impspy said:

Darth Vader is over 2 meters tall (6'6")

This is the size of the Phantom cockpit:

Unless Whisper is sitting in Vader's lap I don't see how this works.

From what I remember of the mission from Rebel Assault where you and your partner steal a TIE Phantom the seats are side by side and there is a fair bit of room in the cockpit.

4 minutes ago, Hiemfire said:

From what I remember of the mission from Rebel Assault where you and your partner steal a TIE Phantom the seats are side by side and there is a fair bit of room in the cockpit.

I think the issue isn't so much the height as the width of Vader's armor.

1 hour ago, SOTL said:

Vader token strip plays into Juke in a way that 5th Brother doesn't If you're playing Whisper and using the Force token for a focus mod then most of the time you're doing it wrong.

If you are letting Vader strip your focus token against a juking phantom then you are doing it wrong. Just eat the 1 damage. (As you are going to eat it, and possibly more against a juking phantom if you don't have the token anyways, there are some outside chances the phantom ***** the bed on its attack roll but let's be real most of the time juke makes a damage be pushed through.)

Against a smart player it's a 1 damage conversion (same as fifth brother).

I am not saying fifth brother is as good as Vader (Vader guaranties a damage pretty much, so he is better but not by a massive amount), I am saying swapping the phantoms slot to gunner won't change the power level much at all.

5 minutes ago, impspy said:

I think the issue isn't so much the height as the width of Vader's armor.

Nice find. The positions look to be staggered slightly, Vader's would be the back position (in RA the male was your character, and you flew it... Sort of, friggin railed mouse shooters. Grr. ). Vader would slightly cramped but has a fair bit of room, more than he would have had in a regular TIE or Actis cockpit actually. I think the bigger problem for Whisper would be Vader out of eye sight getting pissed at her and taking the controls, over her dead body.

As much as I love my Choke and Cloak the truth is Vader probably should have been 2 crew slots like Palp. That would limit him to actual crew carriers and not small ships with a crew slot.

Vader is fine, its the rest of the force users (sans Kanan) that are overpriced.

1 hour ago, Hiemfire said:

Nice find. The positions look to be staggered slightly, Vader's would be the back position (in RA the male was your character, and you flew it... Sort of, friggin railed mouse shooters. Grr. ). Vader would slightly cramped but has a fair bit of room, more than he would have had in a regular TIE or Actis cockpit actually. I think the bigger problem for Whisper would be Vader out of eye sight getting pissed at her and taking the controls, over her dead body.

He was content being a wingman in TIE Fighter .

27 minutes ago, JJ48 said:

He was content being a wingman in TIE Fighter .

A wingman that didn't take instruction, he was more of an armed observer that fought from what I recall.

24 minutes ago, Hiemfire said:

A wingman that didn't take instruction, he was more of an armed observer that fought from what I recall.

Still, he hardly choked me even once. Lovely man. Can't imagine why most of the galaxy thinks he's a monster.

i think they need to bring vader up a lil or the rest down a little. either that or have vader med base or large base only.

Vader reaper only, yes!

Put him with Vermeil where he belongs 😎

Anyway, idk if Vader is undercosted or not. I feel far more that I 5+ is undercosted moreso than any individual upgrade

6 hours ago, Icelom said:

If people find phantom + Vader powerful they would find phantom + fifth brother powerful.

I doubt that.

• Vader can be used at Range 0, or if you're on a rock, or if you don't decloak. (I have seen this matter in most of the games the W/V combo gets used.)
• Vader can be used on a different target than your attack.

Fifth Brother is little better than "here, have +1 Force point".

1 hour ago, ficklegreendice said:

Anyway, idk if Vader is undercosted or not. I feel far more that I 5+ is undercosted moreso than any individual upgrade

I agree, in general. Some I5-6 pilots are exactly where they should be (Vader, Fel, Teroch, Rau, Guri, Luke, Thane, maybe Wedge), but a couple (Boba, Whisper, Redline) are such a bargain that it's basically pointless to bring any of the other pilots unless you want another one of that ship. I suppose something similar could be said for Vader, but it's not that he is undercosted, it's that the rest of the x1 pilots are terrible .

The only small ship I5 pilot I can think of that is actually overcosted is probably the Grand Inquisitor. Fun guy, but not ten points more fun than Seventh Sister.

3 hours ago, Quarrel said:

I doubt that.

• Vader can be used at Range 0, or if you're on a rock, or if you don't decloak. (I have seen this matter in most of the games the W/V combo gets used.)
• Vader can be used on a different target than your attack.

Fifth Brother is little better than "here, have +1 Force point".

Vader crew is powerful and a little undercosted. Having him on a phantom is even more powerful than having him in a lambda shuttle because he will likely be there until the end game and as we all know a well flown Whisper is one of the hardest ships to get shots on.