7 hours ago, Marinealver said:

...but you don't have to worry about shield penetrating direct hits like a Z-95 (granted still rare in extended)....

Z-95s don't need to worry about under-shields Direct Hits either. With the 2e Direct Hit, the second damage will go onto the shield, much like a 1e Major Explosion.

7 hours ago, Marinealver said:

Good point on the first order. The TIE/FO will likely not fit the <25 category since in 1st edition you could only field a max of 6 of them. That being said I think they could come up to a 26-28 point start (making a 7 ship maximum). That is enough for a swarm list. If the V-19 is supposed to be a swarm ship that might be the target. So maybe the V-19 is closer to the TIE/FO in pricing then the Z-95.

If they price the TIE/FO at 26 points,* I can't possibly imagine a Torrent being more than 25 (which is still a little bit more than a Z-95). This is all presuming a 2/2/5 statline like the picture, and that the dial is the B-Wing dial, but with a White 4-forward, and an extra speed on the turn-arounds (speed 2 T-Rolls, speed 3 K-Turn).

The extra hull matters, but so does the fact that the torrent only has one white hard turn (the 2), and has a red 3-bank. While B-Wings--particularly the named pilots--can make good use of their dials, that seems a lot less likely with a swarm ship. Only having the 2-hard and 2-bank to play with most of the time means these will be very slow if they aren't going straight. With B-Wings, the unique slowness of their K-Turns and T-Rolls is often an advantage, while Torrents folks being on faster moves is probably not quite as good.

Just comparing them to a TIE Bomber--weaker statline and dial, no doubt without quite the same access to munitions (almost surely just a single missile slot)--seems like they've got be a good deal under 28 points. 25 seems like the right price, to me. Half-way between the Z-95 or TIE/LN and the Quadjumper or TIE Bomber, rounded down.

*I really can't see a TIE/FO being lower than 28, though. That'd still be a point cheaper than a Scyk, and better without upgrades, due to a stronger dial. Maybe 27, but 26 seems too low, IMHO. Scyks feel overpriced, but still.

5 hours ago, Bucknife said:

if you think you can get really fast at your dials and that you can still make the mostly-correct posistioning choices - and if you feel like you are winning more games than you lose, then DO IT.

This is really important. I love playing swarms, I think part of the reason it works for me is because I set my dials lightning fast. Some people take a little longer, which of course is fine, they are still always just as good if not better players than me, it's just simply a factor to consider. When I play swarms the game isn't slowed down because of it, since usually I'm still done setting my dials before or just after my opponent. On the other hand, if you take your time with your dials, I can see how swarms could be frustrating and make the game tedious. Xwing is all about finding lists that suit you. Are you a slower player? Maybe two Aces that you can take the time to really analyze their potential next moves is what will work for you. Personally, I love flying Swarms because of the tactical options it gives you, and the fact that if you are unlucky and lose one ship quickly, it's no big deal.

@Sir Orrin If you were to pick up swarms again in 2.0 what where would you start? Bombers, tugs, Zs, ties, combined arms, other?

12 minutes ago, Carnor Rex said:

@Sir Orrin If you were to pick up swarms again in 2.0 what where would you start? Bombers, tugs, Zs, ties, combined arms, other?

I'm going to start with the typical 7 TIE swarm, with Howl and Iden, for my swarm. But I've already tried swarms with Sloane and she is really powerful. Just throw her in the Lamba and fly her with a bunch of TIEs and Howl and it's very strong. Any ship that kills a TIE is slaughtered by the others. I also want to try a combined arms swarm with Howl and a mix of Academies and Alpha squadron Interceptors, they are extremely good for their price with their built in action efficiency and three attack dice. You can fit Howlrunner, two Interceptors, and four academies for 200 points, I think that would be very powerful. Once I am able to play against opponents who are not new players I will start to experiment more with swarms as they are my favorite type of list to fly.

1 hour ago, Carnor Rex said:

@Sir Orrin If you were to pick up swarms again in 2.0 what where would you start? Bombers, tugs, Zs, ties, combined arms, other?

Vultures 🤷‍♂️

For support ships I've tried the lamba and even a deci plus mini swarm so far. Sloane is insanely good. It's the ties I feel just die too easily. I plan on trying most or all of the inferno components soon though. Maybe that will increase their durability sufficiently.

So ive ran a few 6+ ship list. The rebel list you deploy the z95 in one corner with 2 a wings and tie on the other side. Sabine draws fire and runs away feeding the opponent to either the awings or the 3 z95s. First list i flew in 2.0.

Aazzzt

(34) Green Squadron Pilot
Points 34

(34) Green Squadron Pilot
(3) Homing Missiles
Points 37

(28) Sabine Wren
(2) Predator
Points 30

(30) Lieutenant Blount
(4) Ion Missiles
(1) Marksmanship
Points 35

(25) Tala Squadron Pilot
(5) Cluster Missiles
(1) Crack Shot
Points 31

(25) Tala Squadron Pilot
(4) Ion Missiles
Points 29

Total points: 196

The next swarm was 3 bombers and 4 tues. Its a complete mess and i went 2-1 with it. I need practice and some upgrade tweaks to be leathal.

Tied up

(30) Del Meeko
Points 30

(24) Obsidian Squadron Pilot
Points 24

(24) Obsidian Squadron Pilot
Points 24

(24) Obsidian Squadron Pilot
Points 24

(28) Scimitar Squadron Pilot
(3) Seismic Charges
(2) Skilled Bombardier
Points 33

(28) Scimitar Squadron Pilot
(6) Barrage Rockets
Points 34

(28) Scimitar Squadron Pilot
(3) Homing Missiles
Points 31

Total points: 200

Both was fun and had luck against a range of list.

20 hours ago, DakkaDakka12 said:

Ties are really underrated filler ships, in most cases you could drop 1 kitted out ship for 2 academy pilots who you can use for blocking, distracting, or if the enemy ignores them a tie in range 1 is still a threat.

@EVIL INC try running a few ties with a pair or trio of some other ship you use often, like a list with 3 interceptors or advanced and fill the rest of the list with ties. Mixed ship types are harder to fly large groups of, but the versatility you gain is sometimes worth it.

Im still waiting for the mining guild tie to release first thing I will try when they release is a list with

-escape shuttle w/ tactics officer

-2 mining ties

-2 quadjumpers

-2 HLC scyks

Effective? No idea, but it will be fun with the quads trying to get in arc, while the ties knife fight, while the scyks poke from range, and the shuttle tries to stay in range of whoever needs a 2nd action.

I don't think TIEs are filler ships as much as they are swarm ships. The Z-95 was a better filler ship as they were cheap and didn't pose that much of a risk to a bad die roll. If anything the TIE/FO was closer to a filler ship but those were priced rather high and they had a very good control option in Omega Leader. TAPs (aka v1s) are a better filler ship for the Imperials.

14 hours ago, theBitterFig said:

Z-95s don't need to worry about under-shields Direct Hits either. With the 2e Direct Hit, the second damage will go onto the shield, much like a 1e Major Explosion.

If they price the TIE/FO at 26 points,* I can't possibly imagine a Torrent being more than 25 (which is still a little bit more than a Z-95). This is all presuming a 2/2/5 statline like the picture, and that the dial is the B-Wing dial, but with a White 4-forward, and an extra speed on the turn-arounds (speed 2 T-Rolls, speed 3 K-Turn).

The extra hull matters, but so does the fact that the torrent only has one white hard turn (the 2), and has a red 3-bank. While B-Wings--particularly the named pilots--can make good use of their dials, that seems a lot less likely with a swarm ship. Only having the 2-hard and 2-bank to play with most of the time means these will be very slow if they aren't going straight. With B-Wings, the unique slowness of their K-Turns and T-Rolls is often an advantage, while Torrents folks being on faster moves is probably not quite as good.

Just comparing them to a TIE Bomber--weaker statline and dial, no doubt without quite the same access to munitions (almost surely just a single missile slot)--seems like they've got be a good deal under 28 points. 25 seems like the right price, to me. Half-way between the Z-95 or TIE/LN and the Quadjumper or TIE Bomber, rounded down.

*I really can't see a TIE/FO being lower than 28, though. That'd still be a point cheaper than a Scyk, and better without upgrades, due to a stronger dial. Maybe 27, but 26 seems too low, IMHO. Scyks feel overpriced, but still.

Anyways we have some interesting costing zones here assuming that 23 is the lowest a ship can start. But we have the swarm type cannon fodder at 23-25 points. The step right above it being 26-28 points which I think some of the factions if they get a cheap basic unit type ship may fall here (Resistance, 1stOrder, Republic). Then after 29 points well the number of ships you can take starts to drop and Scyks, and A-wing are not really priced to be a swarmy ship (even though Scyks could easily be dropped into the 26-28 starting point but considering Scum has both Z-95 and TIE-ln they don't need anymore swarm ships).

Last one I did : The reborn of Soontir Obsidian Swarm !

TIE/ln Fighter - Obsidian Squadron Pilot - 24
Obsidian Squadron Pilot - (24)

TIE/ln Fighter - Obsidian Squadron Pilot - 24
Obsidian Squadron Pilot - (24)

TIE/ln Fighter - Obsidian Squadron Pilot - 24
Obsidian Squadron Pilot - (24)

TIE/ln Fighter - Obsidian Squadron Pilot - 24
Obsidian Squadron Pilot - (24)

TIE/ln Fighter - Obsidian Squadron Pilot - 24
Obsidian Squadron Pilot - (24)

TIE/ln Fighter - •“Night Beast” - 26
•“Night Beast” - Obsidian Two (26)

TIE/in Interceptor - •Soontir Fel - 54
•Soontir Fel - Ace of Legend (52)
Predator (2)

Total: 200/200

16 minutes ago, Marinealver said:

considering Scum has both Z-95 and TIE-ln they don't need anymore swarm ships

With our luck the Mining Guild Tie is going to be between 28-30 pts if it has a mod and illicit, that is including the ship's ability in my guestimate.

I've been rocking the striker/reaper squad, and it's been very rewarding. I like @Magnus Grendel 's moniker "heavy swarm," because although the ship count is definitely too low to be called a swarm in my opinion, the number of red dice is basically the same.

Initiative 1 pilots still suffer, but Sloane is tremendous at making up for that weakness.

Most rounds I'm pretty fast at dials, despite the Adaptive Ailerons, but there are some rounds where my planning phase grinds to a halt. And there are unfortunate games where I have multiple such rounds. Guess I still need more practice.

When the TIE striker expansion is released, I plan to pick up my 5th TIE striker, just to have a full set.

Well TIE/FO are starting at 28 points so You can have a True 1stOrder FO Swarms but it will only be 7 TIEs. I think we can see a few factions which has their default line unit at that cost.

Just flew Sloane in the Reaper, with three Alpha squad Interceptors, and the Intitive 1 striker with a seismic charge. Managed to beat a Jake/Miranda/Ten Numb squad. Sadly I lost both alphas in the initial engagement, but the stress caused by their deaths made Ten Numb Jake Ferral easy to block and kill, and I barely finshed off Miranda with just the Reaper left. What was nice about the list is the Squints flew on their own within range 3 of sloane, and the striker just stuck with the Reaper to protect it and get shots from the back. Sloane is super good with any swarm, and I think for my next sloane swarm i'm just gonna drop howlrunner to fly Sloane with 6 TIEs.