Z-6 Rotary Blaster Cannon -> Ranged (Heavy)

VX Sidewinder Repeating Blaster -> Gunnery

Shouldn't they both be Gunnery?

21 minutes ago, Mefyrx said:

Z-6 Rotary Blaster Cannon -> Ranged (Heavy)

VX Sidewinder Repeating Blaster -> Gunnery

Shouldn't they both be Gunnery?

No. The rotary blaster cannon can be wielded by a strong individual without being mounted in an emplacement. At most, all it may require, in some instances, is a tripod. The VX Sidewinder is a crew operated weapon that requires a full turret emplacement.

Different weapons, different functionality and Skill.

If you look, the Sidewinder is "better" but in exchange it's heavier and requires skill with heavy weapons.

The Z-6 is lighter and not as complicated to operate, but it's not as easy to swing around and it's not so good at sustained firing.

5 hours ago, Tramp Graphics said:

No. The rotary blaster cannon can be wielded by a strong individual without being mounted in an emplacement. At most, all it may require, in some instances, is a tripod. The VX Sidewinder is a crew operated weapon that requires a full turret emplacement.

From Dangerous Covenants :
"Though designed for use with its included bipod (...), a wielder with sufficient strength can carry and even fire the weapon on the move, albeit invariably with reduced accuracy. Users who intend to wield the VX in this way often attach a shoulder strap, although even then the weapon requires two hands to wield."

So: The Sidewinder is meant to be used from an emplacement, but is just portable enough for a strong individual to carry.

As for the actual question: The depictions of them make it seem like they're carried and operated in a similar way, so the Sidewinder might just be a slightly upscaled version of the Z-6 capable of firing controlled single shots or bursts instead of Auto-fire only. Why does that warrant a different skill? Dunno.

12 minutes ago, EpicTed said:

From Dangerous Covenants :
"Though designed for use with its included bipod (...), a wielder with sufficient strength can carry and even fire the weapon on the move, albeit invariably with reduced accuracy. Users who intend to wield the VX in this way often attach a shoulder strap, although even then the weapon requires two hands to wield."

So: The Sidewinder is meant to be used from an emplacement, but is just portable enough for a strong individual to carry.

As for the actual question: The depictions of them make it seem like they're carried and operated in a similar way, so the Sidewinder might just be a slightly upscaled version of the Z-6 capable of firing controlled single shots or bursts instead of Auto-fire only. Why does that warrant a different skill? Dunno.

Even with that option, the weapon is specifically designed as a mounted weapon, whereas the rotary cannon is designed to be man portable.

1 hour ago, Tramp Graphics said:

Even with that option, the weapon is specifically designed as a mounted weapon, whereas the rotary cannon is designed to be man portable.

To expound on this, while actually firing the weapons may be roughly the same, operating them may be very different.

So like the Z-6 might just expect you to shove in powerpacks, check the rotary motors, and you're ready to start firing.

The Sidewinder might need more detailed prep and set up more typical of a heavy repeating blaster or light cannon. Checking power feed levels, using heavy weapon power connectors and high energy Li-Po powerpacks instead of standard AAs, so on.

But the ruleset (thank the Force) doesn't require the players to actually work on that nitty gritty level. So it rounds it off by making one use a different skill.

Think of it as the difference between an LMG like the M1919 Browning .30cal and an HMG like the M2 .50cal.

the M1919 can be operated by a single person, and with difficulty could be carried while fired. The M2 on the other hand requires multiple people to properly operate and could NEVER be carried while firing.

Gunnery represents crew served weapons that require setup and multiple people to use effectively, or are mounted on a vehicle or entrenched position. Light and Heavy ranged are for weapons which are man portable and can be used while on the move with no setup

5 hours ago, BadMotivator said:

Think of it as the difference between an LMG like the M1919 Browning .30cal and an HMG like the M2 .50cal.

the M1919 can be operated by a single person, and with difficulty could be carried while fired. The M2 on the other hand requires multiple people to properly operate and could NEVER be carried while firing.

Gunnery represents crew served weapons that require setup and multiple people to use effectively, or are mounted on a vehicle or entrenched position. Light and Heavy ranged are for weapons which are man portable and can be used while on the move with no setup

The issue with that analogy is that the Sidewinder can be fired on the move. It just has Cumbersome 5 so unless you're a big beefcake with Brawn and/or Burly, or buy an attachment to carry it, you'll need to mount it. But there are multiple valid ways in game to make a man portable Sidewinder, and it's not the only gunnery weapon that can. In fact, several gunnery weapons are explicitly man portable, such as the Missile Tube or Grenade Launcher.

However, reading the arguments here, I think it might be a little bit counterintuitive that the Z-6 is the one which ended up with Prepare 1 ;-)

BTW, this came up at our table two weeks ago: Does the Quickdraw talent reduce the Prepare rating by 1? I think it only states this clearly in Genesys.

How do you guys handle it in Star Wars?

1 hour ago, Rogues Rule said:

BTW, this came up at our table two weeks ago: Does the Quickdraw talent reduce the Prepare rating by 1? I think it only states this clearly in Genesys.

Yeah, the wording in the talent description is a bit iffy, as it has the word "prepare" in it, but doesn't specify it's talking about the weapon quality. However, as some Genesys talents can be seen as the play-tested versions of talents introduced in the Star Wars games, I'd say you can apply the Genesys description of Quick Draw to the SW games as well.

10 hours ago, DarthHammer said:

The issue with that analogy is that the Sidewinder can be fired on the move. It just has Cumbersome 5 so unless you're a big beefcake with Brawn and/or Burly, or buy an attachment to carry it, you'll need to mount it. But there are multiple valid ways in game to make a man portable Sidewinder, and it's not the only gunnery weapon that can. In fact, several gunnery weapons are explicitly man portable, such as the Missile Tube or Grenade Launcher.

Well, when you're talking Brawn 5 we are dealing with Wookiees and other aliens, or modified humans. A Wookiee could probably use a .50cal while walking.

The Missile Tube and Grenade Launcher still fits because, while the weapon itself might be usable by a single person, you will need another person to carry the extra ammo. Its still a crew served weapon.

17 hours ago, BadMotivator said:

The   M2 on the other hand requires multiple people to properly operate and could NEVER be carried  while firing. 

Unless you are Roadblock.

Seriously though, I agree with your assessment overall. An M2 requires a lot more skill and attention to operate than most other more mobile weapons. So having it be gunnery makes sense.

2 hours ago, Ghostofman said:

Unless you are Roadblock.

Seriously though, I agree with your assessment overall. An M2 requires a lot more skill and attention to operate than most other more mobile weapons. So having it be gunnery makes sense.

6 hours ago, BadMotivator said:

Well, when you're talking Brawn 5 we are dealing with Wookiees and other aliens, or modified humans.

Most species, including humans, can start with Brawn 5 without any modifications. They may need the +10 Starting XP to get there, but they do not need modifications.

On 11/23/2018 at 8:17 PM, BadMotivator said:

Think of it as the difference between an LMG like the M1919 Browning .30cal and an HMG like the M2 .50cal.

the M1919 can be operated by a single person, and with difficulty could be carried while fired. The M2 on the other hand requires multiple people to properly operate and could NEVER be carried while firing.

Gunnery represents crew served weapons that require setup and multiple people to use effectively, or are mounted on a vehicle or entrenched position. Light and Heavy ranged are for weapons which are man portable and can be used while on the move with no setup

A better analogy would be microgun vs mini gun. You can fire a microgun from the hip and it will cause lighter people to slide on the ground. A minigun generates over 300 pounds of recoil. You cannot fire it hand held. Predator only works because it is firing blanks. The real deal would rip it right out of your hands. It also require 50 pounds of batteries and several hundred pounds of ammo.

5 hours ago, OddballE8 said:

Looks almost like an early anti-tank weapon, similar to the Finnish L-39 Lahti 20x138mmB. Fun!

(But not the same as an M2HB)

On 11/25/2018 at 4:25 AM, SFC Snuffy said:

Looks almost like an early anti-tank weapon, similar to the Finnish L-39 Lahti 20x138mmB. Fun!

(But not the same as an M2HB)

Yeah, you're right... it's not the same as an M2HB.

It's a chinese Heavy Machinegun that fires the russian 12.7x108 round which has a much higher energy and velocity than the .50 BMG used by the M2HB.

So, this is not an early anti-tank weapon. It is a modern heavy machinegun that's specifically made to be light weight so it's easier for infantry to transport and use (but not meant to be used like this).
That, in turn, means that this will have much more recoil than the way heavier M2HB (18 kg's vs the M2's 38 kg's).

So yes, not the same as an M2HB... it's much more powerful.

On 12/1/2018 at 9:50 AM, OddballE8 said:

So yes, not the same as an M2HB... it's much more powerful.

Highly debatable! The 12.7 has a slightly longer case than the .50 BMG, but my Google-fu shows that the two rounds offer very similar performance. I'd give the edge to the M2 as the longer barrel gives slightly better velocity. The fixed headspace & timing on the new M2A1 make barrel swaps much faster, as well. The W89/W85 is certainly lighter and more easily man-portable, but that's less of an issue in motorized/mechanized units.

Are you familiar with the M903 SLAP round?

On 12/8/2018 at 2:42 AM, SFC Snuffy said:

Highly debatable! The 12.7 has a slightly longer case than the .50 BMG, but my Google-fu shows that the two rounds offer very similar performance. I'd give the edge to the M2 as the longer barrel gives slightly better velocity. The fixed headspace & timing on the new M2A1 make barrel swaps much faster, as well. The W89/W85 is certainly lighter and more easily man-portable, but that's less of an issue in motorized/mechanized units.

Are you familiar with the M903 SLAP round?

The "general purpose" rounds for both show that the Soviet one (well, russian one, now) has a similar velocity and a higher energy.
Meaning it's most likely gonna have more recoil.
And since that gun I showed weighs a LOT less than an M2, it's gonna have more felt recoil.

The whole discussion was about the statement that an M2 could NEVER bee carried while firing, which I pretty much disproved by that video. Lighter gun with more powerful cartridge being fired while carried.

(Unless BadMotivator meant that it simply couldn't be carried, but that's not what he said, and also not the case.)

PS. don't get caught up in comparisons between speciality rounds and the likes. This was just to prove the point that an M2 could be fired while being carried. When saying "much more powerful", I was referring to the felt recoil due to the higher energy of the standard rounds (I'm comparing API here). Not the potential damage of that round.