6 hours ago, Marinealver said:You have to play resistance for A-wings
...what?
If you just mean that they’re cheaper for what you get, there, I know, that was my point. If you mean hyperspace legal, I really don’t care because I rarely play anything but extended anyways.
On 11/28/2018 at 9:54 PM, ForceM said:Say what you want but fact is that they are not performing as well as the other 2 factions. Look at the results, they are the least played faction with the least top cuts and least victories.
Lol, yes there are some ships that ore overcosted, but Rebels are far from useless. Whining about it doesn't make things any better.
Double post.
8 hours ago, Rat of Vengence said:Lol, yes there are some ships that ore overcosted, but Rebels are far from useless. Whining about it doesn't make things any better.
Let’s put it this way. Not all Rebel ships are useless. But if you look at the top cuts, they have way less variable builds than the other factions. Basically it’s Luke, Wedge, Sabine mainly and then some appearances for Jan Ors, AP-5, well that’s it. There was an interesting list in Australia now abusing Dash with Han Gunner (but this is probably an unintended abuse of rules) and Roark Pilot, and another squad with the Esege/Garven combo. But they are a bit one-offs.
In the end you have way more unplayed (because unplayable?!?) ship types for rebels. And this lack of options is seriously restraining them.
One offs? Didn’t you see PAX. It was wall to wall dash roark.
42 minutes ago, Dreadai said:One offs? Didn’t you see PAX. It was wall to wall dash roark.
It's nice to see a truly 1.0-worthy combo finally get some play time in 2.0 ❤️
The Dash/Roark list was potent enough that one of them went all the way to the semifinals where it lost to the eventual winner.
There were also plenty of lists with Wedge, Luke, and either Norra ARC (more common) or Norra Y-Wing. My son ran the Norra ARC version (we saw your blog @Green Knight a few weeks ago, so full credit goes to you for inspiring his list) and even though this was his first big tournament he won a few games, including a perfect score in his first match. These lists did OK, but generally lost as much as they won and I don't think any made the cut.
I think we also saw two lists with 2 B-wings and 2 X-wings. Didn't see them in action, but I think at least one of them made the cut. If anyone has a link to the results, I'd be interested to see.
1 minute ago, dadocollin said:The Dash/Roark list was potent enough that one of them went all the way to the semifinals where it lost to the eventual winner.
There were also plenty of lists with Wedge, Luke, and either Norra ARC (more common) or Norra Y-Wing. My son ran the Norra ARC version (we saw your blog @Green Knight a few weeks ago, so full credit goes to you for inspiring his list) and even though this was his first big tournament he won a few games, including a perfect score in his first match. These lists did OK, but generally lost as much as they won and I don't think any made the cut.
I think we also saw two lists with 2 B-wings and 2 X-wings. Didn't see them in action, but I think at least one of them made the cut. If anyone has a link to the results, I'd be interested to see.
https://listfortress.com/tournaments/172
Top 16 at PAX included 3 Rebels:
BBXY
Dash/Roark
BBBB
3/16 is fewer than the other two factions, but, like... dramatically more than 0/16.
Dash/Roark is the sort of list where if there's enough in the room (and I think there were several at PAX?) then one of them will have lucky enough matchups and avoid the bad ones and do very well.
It's a pretty high variance list, both in matchups and on the table. It's totally capable of doing well now and then.
1 minute ago, SOTL said:Dash/Roark is the sort of list where if there's enough in the room (and I think there were several at PAX?) then one of them will have lucky enough matchups and avoid the bad ones and do very well.
It's a pretty high variance list, both in matchups and on the table. It's totally capable of doing well now and then.
There were several. If you look, you'll see them all the way from top to bottom. The player who made it to the semis was flying the list really well and one other nearly made the cut. I also think it was a case where people weren't necessarily as prepared for any rebel lists. I think Scum was there in force and had so many control options, that people put in a lot of prep to combat all of those. Imperials may have benefitted from this as well.
This does show that the Dash/Roark oddball combo is probably the "best" Rebel list right now, which as you point out, is probably not a good thing as more people get better against it.
At the end of the day, I think everyone wanted Rebels to be about X-wings because the game is called X-wing, the movies are dominated by X-wings, etc., etc., so we got X-wings in 2.0 that are much better ships. Still, X-wings are inherently fragile (always have been), so (like Interceptors) they leave little room for mistakes. You make one bad move and Wedge pops. Luke is more resilient, but even he can be taken out quickly. This creates an interesting dilemma. If points are adjusted to make non-X-wing ships better, do we really want Rebel lists with no X-wings in them? Will Poe make us forget the T-65 again? Stay tuned.
13 hours ago, dadocollin said:"best" Rebel list right now, which as you point out, is probably not a good thing as more people get better against it.
I don't know about that. Dash/Roark is a powerful gimmick that some squads have no answer to, but a seasoned player with the right squad can handily beat it. Dash/roark is also quick to play, meaning it's less brain strain at tournaments. It's not the "best" rebel list though - 4-ship lists and torp lists have also been doing really well
Rebel Han Solo is pretty good. DON'T TELL ANYONE!
21 minutes ago, LordVogl said:Rebel Han Solo is pretty good. DON'T TELL ANYONE!
And in my experience, so is Kulbee Flappy Bird.
While I still need to run my experiment with Hatin' Kanan, I'll admit I'm otherwise mostly going to just play Resistance the rest of this year...
But mostly because new shiny toys, and not because Rebels is dead. 😜
4 hours ago, SpiderMana said:While I still need to run my experiment with Hatin' Kanan, I'll admit I'm otherwise mostly going to just play Resistance the rest of this year...
But mostly because new shiny toys, and not because Rebels is dead. 😜
I was told "Hate" was dark side only
18 minutes ago, RoockieBoy said:I was told "Hate" was dark side only
SpiderMana's build includes Ezra and Maul. Maul permits Kannan to take Hate.
On 12/4/2018 at 5:22 PM, SOTL said:Dash/Roark is the sort of list where if there's enough in the room (and I think there were several at PAX?) then one of them will have lucky enough matchups and avoid the bad ones and do very well.
It's a pretty high variance list, both in matchups and on the table. It's totally capable of doing well now and then.
Yes, i agree.
The elephant in the room also is that it is very likely an unintended interaction of rules between Roark and Han gunner.
It might very well be that this will sooner or later be errataed. This is not the kind of interaction that seems to be favored in 2.0
I kinda hope they fix it, since that might pave the way to a poimt decrease for Dash.
14 hours ago, LordVogl said:Rebel Han Solo is pretty good. DON'T TELL ANYONE!
Shhh, if we all stay quiet maybe he gets a point decrease and becomes even better 
On 12/4/2018 at 11:02 AM, dadocollin said:The Dash/Roark list was potent enough that one of them went all the way to the semifinals where it lost to the eventual winner.
There were also plenty of lists with Wedge, Luke, and either Norra ARC (more common) or Norra Y-Wing. My son ran the Norra ARC version (we saw your blog @Green Knight a few weeks ago, so full credit goes to you for inspiring his list) and even though this was his first big tournament he won a few games, including a perfect score in his first match. These lists did OK, but generally lost as much as they won and I don't think any made the cut.
I think we also saw two lists with 2 B-wings and 2 X-wings. Didn't see them in action, but I think at least one of them made the cut. If anyone has a link to the results, I'd be interested to see.
I think I played your son round 3. At least I recognized the squad from the blog post and he said it was his first big tournament. Very nice guy to play against - the score made the game seem more lopsided than it was.
2 hours ago, ForceM said:The elephant in the room also is that it is very likely an unintended interaction of rules between Roark and Han gunner.
And perhaps the even bigger elephant in the room is that 2.0 is so poorly balanced that it takes a clearly unintended and super powerful interaction to even remotely get the YT-2400 onto the competitive table. The poor Rebel YT-1300 and Decimator are so absurdly overcosted they are hopeless.
How much would the point decrease need to be on those ships to make them competitively viable? 15pts? 20pts? 25pts? As it stands now, you're paying more for them than two X-Wings, yet the big ship has only half the red dice output, while having effectively less HP than the two snubs. Doesn't make any sense.
5 for the YT-1300 would be fine. If Rebel Han/Lando end up being 82 points, I will auto include them in just about everything.
20 minutes ago, AllWingsStandyingBy said:
And perhaps the even bigger elephant in the room is that 2.0 is so poorly balanced that it takes a clearly unintended and super powerful interaction to even remotely get the YT-2400 onto the competitive table. The poor Rebel YT-1300 and Decimator are so absurdly overcosted they are hopeless.
How much would the point decrease need to be on those ships to make them competitively viable? 15pts? 20pts? 25pts? As it stands now, you're paying more for them than two X-Wings, yet the big ship has only half the red dice output, while having effectively less HP than the two snubs. Doesn't make any sense.
Yeah, they overcompensated from 1.0 where large (turret) ships overperformed sometimes.
Just that in the end of 1.0 the problem was largely solved and small ships dominated, and they even overcosted the 1.0 large ships that were actually not doing so well at all...
That’s exactly why i hope they forbid this weird Han/Roark double tap interaction, so they can focus on making The 2400 viable without some fishy cheap trick.
Edited by ForceM16 minutes ago, ForceM said:Yeah, they overcompensated from 1.0 where large (turret) ships overperformed sometimes.
Just that in the end of 1.0 the problem was largely solved and small ships dominated, and they even overcosted the 1.0 large ships that were actually not doing so well at all...
X-Wing has always had a serious over-correction problem. So many of their "fixes" just breed new horrible problems.
Generics outperforming aces in Waves 1-3? Quick, make cards like the TIE Phantom, Predator, etc. ... oh, we've utterly killed swarm builds in Wave 4 and now it's PS War upgrade-laden uniques from here on out...
Large ships total garbage still? Quick, make cards like Threepio, R2D2, Dash, and RAC .... oh we've unleased super-turret terrors onto the meta?
Large turrets eating those aces up now? Quick, make stuff like Autothrusters! And Palpatine! Oh crud... Imp Aces are unstoppable and even the turrets can't kill them with red dice now. Oh, PS, the TIE Defender sucked? But we made the TIE/x7 title! Yikes... now they're even more powerful than classic Imp Aces, which are dominating...
Since red dice don't work and everyone is made bombs are lame, hmm.... how about Sabine and Nym and Traj Sim and Bomblet and Genuis? Oh dear...
Oh, while we're at it, everyone complains ordnance suck? Here, take Plasma Torps, Guidance Chips, Harpoon Missiles, Long Range Scanners, and the Jumpmaster chassis all in couple of waves... uh-oh.... alpha strikes dominate...
FFG X-Wing Balance strategy basically be like:
This over-correction seems to be evident in 2.0 as well, where large ships are basically nuked out of existence, all the EPTs other than Juke are totally 'meh', and maligned ships like the TIE Punisher are utterly monstrous.
Oh X-Wing, shine on you crazy diamond and never change. Even when you have us spend hundreds of dollars on conversion materials and learn all new cards and rules... you stay the same, baby!
39 minutes ago, Scott Pilgrim2 said:I think I played your son round 3. At least I recognized the squad from the blog post and he said it was his first big tournament. Very nice guy to play against - the score made the game seem more lopsided than it was.
He has reddish/light brown hair and a matching beard. He said everyone he played against was super nice, which is great, so thanks if you were one of those people! We live in a fairly isolated part of NE Pennsylvania where there aren't a whole lot of game stores, and the ones there are don't run much X-wing, so we play a lot of casual stuff and my son and I play a lot, but this was our first real experience with the national X-wing community. I think he had a great time and was impressed that people were so nice. He plays a lot of video games where people can be real monsters online, so I'm glad he got to meet gamers face-to-face and see that there are positive communities of people out there.
8 minutes ago, dadocollin said:He plays a lot of video games where people can be real monsters online, so I'm glad he got to meet gamers face-to-face and see that there are positive communities of people out there.
Eesh, yeah, video games are rough. People lose a lot of manners when there’s no face attached to whatever they’re getting mad at.
Like driving, for example: I’m generally extremely patient, but when it’s a car rather than a person it’s all too easy to get extremely PO’d and want to yell at them.
Glad he didn’t meet any sour apples though! 