On 11/24/2018 at 8:54 AM, Cr0aker said:

From a design design standpoint if I were making 2.0 with the ability to adjust point costs... I would start 2.0 off with Rebels being slightly over costed and correct during the first point adjustments. Get the player base to try new things, but not lose rebel only players.

I'm having much more fun with 2.0 than I was with 1.0, even as a (former) mostly rebel player.

I’ve thought this very thing. And I know that there are people that like to complain about FFG trying to make money, but they are a business so it makes sense from a sales standpoint, too. They’ve got new factions and ships coming that no one has, so give people a reason to buy them. If the stuff people already have is great, why would they buy into something weaker?

8 hours ago, Dreadai said:

I think the fact that it is three double modded 3 dice attacks, one of which is bumped to 4 all firing at i6 or 7 makes it pretty strong. I’m going to give it a go this week!

Meh, ran similar and also tried out Norra/Sabine/Wedge/Jan. Liked the latter better. I like AP-5 if you can't get another relevant combat ship in, like he's way better than a token Z or A, but if you have the points for Sabine, he's a meh and Norra with torps is just sexy.

On 11/22/2018 at 6:31 PM, BVRCH said:

As much as I don't think all is lost for the Rebels, I appreciate your sentiment.

I was exclusively a Rebel player in 1.0 and loved the faction. I stayed away from a lot of the super broken 1.0 Rebel stuff simply because I didn't find them fun.

My experience in 2.0 has shown that I need to fly the big tanky damage sponge rebel lists to even stand a chance. Jousting and face-tanking with a mob of ships has never been my preferred playstyle and I've had to play Imperials in order to scratch the arc dodging itch.

I can see myself becoming a 'Resistance Main' as on paper they seem to suit my preferred play style a little better, and nothing in the Rebel roster really gels with me right now. Time will tell on that front though. That is not to say Rebels don't have a few decent options competitively either. In my eyes, generics are the greatest strength for the Rebels right now, and there are a few solid options if you like the Phalanx play style.

A single support based unique pilot helping generics is what has worked best for me in the last 2 months of playing Rebels in 2.0. X-wings and Y-wings are solid chassis' and are cheap enough to get a decent sized squad. Even B-wings have been ok as long as you keep them dirt cheap. Biggs is very strong for Rebels again as many are finding out. The U-wing pilots (even Bodhi) are all worth a try. Esege Tuketu has worked well, and so has Dutch.

Rebels have a few lone wolves that work, a la Wedge, Luke, Norra and Sabine, which will become even better once the rest of the faction is re-balanced. Options for pairings with these ships is where I personally fail to see anything of note right now, but that's not to say they don't exist. I just haven't found a combo I like yet.

I'd say if you have another faction to play maybe step away from the Rebels for a little while and reset yourself. If not, try and play some battering ram squads with some generics and see how you fair. My only other advice is keep it simple, and try a U-wing, they're actually quite good now.

I have found so far that Braylen is amazing when stressed, u wings are much better, Norra in the arc even naked is a beast ( so much that my opponents refuse to shoot at her), and the y wings from generic and up are worth it. Ap-5 in the sheathipeade is a cheap ship that most people ignore, Blount is good but does easily, and a low ps z with missiles is aggravating.

Having said all that, trying to fit 4 ships when their are a lot of good individual ships in a 200 point list is where I’m struggling. My current list has 2 u wings, Norra and a evaan with bombs.

4 hours ago, MalusCalibur said:

So because the faction isn't getting used as much at the very top of 'competitive' X-Wing, said faction is such unplayable garbage that everyone who plays them just shouldn't bother until the points adjustment? Because that's what the OP is suggesting, and it's ludicrous.

My impression was that the OP was wondering what he should do himself, not suggesting that everybody else drops Rebels.

For some people winning is part of the fun, and feeling you need to work harder for it than the guy across the table due to your choice of faction can be very frustrating.

Having been there several times in 1.0 with Scum, I feel the best course of action if your chosen faction's performance frustrates you is to find a list you enjoy in another faction and play that for a while.

5 hours ago, MalusCalibur said:

So because the faction isn't getting used as much at the very top of 'competitive' X-Wing, said faction is such unplayable garbage that everyone who plays them just shouldn't bother until the points adjustment? Because that's what the OP is suggesting, and it's ludicrous.
I despise those list-gathering sites for that reason - people see certain lists doing well and just copy them, taking the information there as gospel despite the fact that not every game one plays is going to be the creatively starved 'meta' of tournament play. Personally I couldn't care less what some tryhard on the other side of the world is doing in a tournament. I'll build my own lists and make my own conclusions, and thus far in 2.0 nothing is an auto-loss against anything else, so experimentation should be encouraged rather than just parroting 'the meta' as an excuse not to try.

In 2.0 nothing is an auto-loss against anything else? Now that was a good laugh.

Also, if you want to play friendly games with subpar lists, that’s okay, nobody will stop you and you can have all the fun in the world.

But i think the OP here wants to know if playing Rebels competitively is a good idea despite them not doing well. And if you want to play on that level, part of your fun is to build competitive lists and do well on tournaments. In that regard, rebels are not looking great right now. And by that i mean, they are really underperforming. Reasons for this are being discussed, but fact is that they are...

Concerning netlisting and stat websites, well you can hate them all you want. Competitive players have always used that and will go on doing it. In ANY game where this is admissible, not only X-Wing, btw. And yes, they influence the meta as people see the statistically better lists and pick them more frequently. It sometimes becomes a self fulfilling prophecy. But there is nothing you or me could do about this, even if we wanted to.

But generally spoken, these compiled results and stats show us the meta and its problems pretty well, even if they also have some influence on it at the same time, so they are useful in balancing the game in the long run too.

And experimenting with lists is nice, but has largely been done by now. People have been testing for a few months now, and the meta is pretty settled. There are meta picks like Cloak n’ Choke Whisper, Redline or Boba with Han gunner, Sabine or Jakku gunrunners. And there are also meta list archetypes.

And Rebels have considerably fewer of these meta picks, lists and upgrades.

There is the torp swarm tactics alpha for them, iterations of Wedge, Jan Ors plus support and Supernatural Luke X-Wing lists. Most sprinkle in Sabine too. I have honestly not seen much else from them that would be worth mentioning. They generally have fewer options than the opposition and these options also look a bit less overall powerful picks than the real top dogs right now. Plus, Rebels have a lot of really bad ships that you won’t ever see near a competitive table. More of these bad options than the other factions means your lists are predictable and there is not a lot of untapped potential to actually find workable combos.

So if the OP wants to know if he should go on playing Rebels or hope and wait for a miracle in january, i have to say that i am not that confident in FFG getting it right with point and slot adjustments, because i see a large gap and also some unfixable stuff like pilot abilities, Faction crew and Low Initiative on rebel pilots . So if he wants to play strong lists, he should maybe switch factions indeed.

You guys keep forgetting about Corran... he’s a sleeper 🤣

Are you asking if you can win some event? Yes. Skill make this possible. Are you asking if you can have fun playing with friends, better than playing at other games, or going to the cinema together or other enterteinments? Yeah, it is also possible.

Are you asking if there is some way to earn an autowin list which make worthless field ships and go to tournament? I have to tell no way. And I hope remain also this way after the faq, and will be the same for all factions. The autowin lists metagame abuse of the gameplay and kill communities...

That someone actually believes FFG will have a point's adjustment ready to go is what I find amusing. Until all 7 factions are ready how would they even begin?

2 hours ago, RoockieBoy said:

You guys keep forgetting about Corran... he’s a sleeper 🤣

I've only had a couple of games with Corran. There's something there... he's still overcosted but not by as much as I thought

On 11/24/2018 at 11:03 PM, PorgLeader said:

Scum and Empire players: "No. That's not true. That's impossible!!!!!"

Want to hear the impossible?

Dash/Roark made it into the top cut (4/2) then got to top 4 match, losing to the overall winner. Other top 4 match was Essege and 2 X-wings (Luke/Wedge I think).

So while the final was a Sloan ace swarm vs a meta staple of Redline/Whisper/Soontir, great players trying something different with rebels made it to the top cut.

3 hours ago, RoockieBoy said:

You guys keep forgetting about Corran... he’s a sleeper 🤣

I think rebels have a lot of sleepers. Has anyone bothered dusting off Thug lyfe, rebel edition? Or snap crackle pop greens (that don’t snap anymore but still).

3 hours ago, RoockieBoy said:

You guys keep forgetting about Corran... he’s a sleeper 🤣

Corran needs some support, but I've really enjoyed flying him (and E-Wings in general).

16 minutes ago, FlyingAnchors said:

I think rebels have a lot of sleepers. Has anyone bothered dusting off Thug lyfe, rebel edition? Or snap crackle pop greens (that don’t snap anymore but still).

I've flown a variant Thug Lyfe. VTG Y-Wings are a little unimpressive at the moment because the turrets are kind of junk, but if there were a 3-die turret that was allowed to actually deal damage I could see them being pretty good.

7 hours ago, Sabalom Glitz said:

That someone actually believes FFG will have a point's adjustment ready to go is what I find amusing. Until all 7 factions are ready how would they even begin?

Waiting 2 more years for balance to magically occur isn’t the solution either.

It will never be balanced. The game is about adapting correctly to the shifting imbalance.

8 hours ago, FlyingAnchors said:

I think rebels have a lot of sleepers. Has anyone bothered dusting off Thug lyfe, rebel edition? Or snap crackle pop greens (that don’t snap anymore but still).

Yes. They were terrible.

8 minutes ago, SOTL said:

It will never be balanced. The game is about adapting correctly to the shifting imbalance.

Also, ultimately, shifting imbalance drives sales way more than perfect balance.

12 hours ago, DamianR said:

Other top 4 match was Essege and 2 X-wings (Luke/Wedge I think).

Garven was in there because the Esege Garven jank is real! Infinite focus tokens yo.

14 hours ago, FlyingAnchors said:

I think rebels have a lot of sleepers. Has anyone bothered dusting off Thug lyfe, rebel edition? Or snap crackle pop greens (that don’t snap anymore but still).

Thug life was one of the first things i tried. I even won vs a swarm list, but compared to other more powerful things, it’s just an uphill match.

A-Wings are just dead. I mean really, nothing to see there. They don’t swarm well enough and they have no real ace. The best thing they have is probably intimidation Arvel, but else...

On ‎11‎/‎23‎/‎2018 at 1:55 PM, dotswarlock said:

Trick question: if a rebalance does not fix the desired items / ships / etc... do you stop playing for another 3 months? What if it boosts other factions instead, like lowering the cost of the Jumpmaster, for example?

Best to enjoy the game as is and unlearn / relearn new tricks. Just a thought.

no - I just keep flying wedge- - supernatural luke and squad leader ten numb/ proton torp Dutch because it is really fun. I am not winning any tournaments - I am just having a good time

17 hours ago, SOTL said:

I've only had a couple of games with Corran. There's something there... he's still overcosted but not by as much as I thought

I feel the same here. Only 2 games played with Chopper-Elusive-Corran against Duchess/Soontir/Inq one loss one victory. On the game I lost, it was all going fine until I blanked out on 3 greens with focus and Elusive reroll, and was dealt an unlucky Blinded Pilot on a Focus+TL Corran who was ready to proton torp Soontir at r2 and in bullseye (for the double tap). That was a huge swing...

On the bright side, I was able to get 3 proton torps off with Corran and still recover like 3-4 shields. Competitive? Probably not. Fun? Oh yeah! And for a Corran-lover like me (I kept using Corran until 2.0 arrived, even in the “GeniusNym-drops-proton-bomb-on-your-face-and-you-get-a-direct-hit-Corran-explodes-you-lose-the-game-meta”)... that’s more than enough!

1 hour ago, RoockieBoy said:

I feel the same here. Only 2 games played with Chopper-Elusive-Corran against Duchess/Soontir/Inq one loss one victory. On the game I lost, it was all going fine until I blanked out on 3 greens with focus and Elusive reroll, and was dealt an unlucky Blinded Pilot on a Focus+TL Corran who was ready to proton torp Soontir at r2 and in bullseye (for the double tap). That was a huge swing...

On the bright side, I was able to get 3 proton torps off with Corran and still recover like 3-4 shields. Competitive? Probably not. Fun? Oh yeah! And for a Corran-lover like me (I kept using Corran until 2.0 arrived, even in the “GeniusNym-drops-proton-bomb-on-your-face-and-you-get-a-direct-hit-Corran-explodes-you-lose-the-game-meta”)... that’s more than enough!

Corran is very different than in 1.0. in a few ways.

He still wants 2-3 turns of extreme violence where he gets you in bullseye arc. Then he wants to fly away, re-lock, get a shield or two and rinse repeat.

in 1.0 he was one of the very best at this game, killing, point fortressing, reloading shields.

what he gained is the TL from downtown and being a decent double mod Torpedo ship. (But hey Jendon plus a Tie Bomber do the same for the same price, having much more meat and being less finicky than Corran)

Where it gets much different, is that with no PTL he needs foreign help to get double defense tokens or double reposition. And there are not many ships that have the initiative, speed, plus the coordinate/ability to let him do this. Maybe Lando, making up the other half of your list... but that’s it!

All this while needing the Bullseye to actually double tap. In a Meta where most other Aces either out-Initiative him or are straight more maneuverable than him for much cheaper. Because if you don’t use it, he might as well have no pilot ability.

So you pretty much need a coordinate ability for him, outbid your enemy to at least outmaneuver some I5s and below that are not too unpredictable, plus nothing on the enemy side that hampers him or just blows him up on the approach. So you really need all the stars to align all game long to make him pull his very considerable weight.

This just ain’t gonna happen. The opposition does much better for much cheaper. And even in his own faction he doesn’t have a point. Luke is more durable, flexible, maneuvrable than him at lower cost. Wedge has no bullseye condition on his ability and can do torps at higher initiative for much cheaper.

Like many Rebel ships that were special and good in 1.0, he got incredibly overnerfed to the point of near uselessness. I mean even if the double tap wasn’t changed to bullseye, he would still not be priced well, but it might be worth it then to try and give him all the support he needs to shine because double tapping reliably with a first shot torp might be worth it.

In order to be competitive, he would need a truly massive point loss. I am talking about easily more than 10 points there while simultaneously upping the points on the meta picks like Whisper. And i just don’t ever see them doing that.

Why? For the cost he is at, he could very well have been the force user he should be in reality. But they would rather have removed him entirely from the game imho. As an EU protagonist, he just should not steal the show to Wedge and Luke. Corran would not be in game anymore if he hadn’t been a fan-favorite and iconic pilot since his release in X-Wing. So they didn’t quite dare to kick him out, like Tycho... but they made sure he will not appear on any stream or top table, ever!

9 hours ago, LordBlades said:

Also, ultimately, shifting imbalance drives sales way more than perfect balance.

Totally agreed. But i ask myself if they actually do predict the meta correctly when designing, or if it’s all rather a big coincidence...

1 hour ago, ForceM said:

Totally agreed. But i ask myself if they actually do predict the meta correctly when designing, or if it’s all rather a big coincidence...

I think it's at least 50% coincidence. I've thought about this a fair bit and I honestly can't see why FFG would make some of their ships DOA on purpose. If stuff like the Punisher, G1-A, Kihraxz etc. were mistakes in 1.0, I think it's fair to assume a fair bit of mistakes happen in the opposite direction as well.

I mean I'm sure they're trying to shake up the meta with every release, but given how far in the future they are designing, IMO there has to be a hefty amount of guesswork involved.

"Rebel Players: Is It Worth Continuing to Play until January?"


Yes