SheathiRau is high costed but can he work?

By Kijaucey, in X-Wing Squad Lists

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(50) Braylen Stramm
(4) Shield Upgrade
Points 54

(47) Cassian Andor
(0) Pivot Wing
Points 47

(52) Fenn Rau
Points 52

(45) Heff Tobber
(2) Tactical Officer
(0) Pivot Wing
Points 47

Total points: 200

I've been playing exclusively rebels since 2.0 came out and have found that either torp lists or 4 ship lists usually fare the best. Rebels are in a tough spot meta-wise regardless so I've been trying some of the less used ships to see if something shines.

I was looking at Fenn Rau in sheathipede because in 1.0 his ability singlehandedly could win games.

My favorite combo is Cassian with Braylen.

I created this list and it has done really well in playtesting.

Does anyone else have any above average SheathiRau lists?

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I played this list last night. Fenn shut down two crucial attacks. Only gave up Cassian points. But I had to fly super careful.

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1 hour ago, Kijaucey said:

What was your record?

3-0 and only one of those was close. As you point out, Fenn is a pain to fly against, neutering attacks is maybe a stronger ability than people give it credit for. And as I’m trying to stress in my post, coordinating at I6 is super powerful.

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I think Fenn got discounted out of the gate for two reasons. Firstly, he is expensive because of i6 coordinate. Secondly, he is much less effective against high ship counts, and the headsim meta pre-launch was for high ship count lists.

With the meta seemingly settling down into 3-4 ship lists, he might have a place, particularly in shutting down munitions heavy lists. The biggest problem then is that for cost, you are trading a bit of utility for a 3/4 dice gun ... and you can likely get a lot of the same value out of a stronger support ship like a HWK or U-Wing without removing the 3 dice attack from your list.

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12 hours ago, Dreadai said:

I think Fenn got discounted out of the gate for two reasons. Firstly, he is expensive because of i6 coordinate. Secondly, he is much less effective against high ship counts, and the headsim meta pre-launch was for high ship count lists.

That’s interesting, and it makes sense too. Fenn would be in trouble against swarms.

12 hours ago, Dreadai said:

With the meta seemingly settling down into 3-4 ship lists, he might have a place, particularly in shutting down munitions heavy lists. The biggest problem then is that for cost, you are trading a bit of utility for a 3/4 dice gun ... and you can likely get a lot of the same value out of a stronger support ship like a HWK or U-Wing without removing the 3 dice attack from your list.

So I get what you’re saying but especially against aces, that ‘bit of utility’ might well be the difference between getting a shot or not, the I6 coordinate turning a turret or barrel rolling something to get arc. On the same theme, quantity of dice isn’t the only metric. Fully modded shots count for a lot.

Edited by eljms
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For the same price as fenn you get Wedge, Thane, Kyle + title + jyn, nearly Jan + title. That is probably the biggest reason fenn isnt being played. Other ships are now more cost efficient to just go pure offense. You dont need to protect 47pt poe or 50pt Miranda anymore. All the ships you normally want to protect are the same cost as Fenn now

Another part was with HSCP Fenn neutered two ships per round and flight assist guaranteed arc.

The cheese is gone, and so then is the table time. Still good, just not broke

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1 hour ago, eljms said:

That’s interesting, and it makes sense too. Fenn would be in trouble against swarms.

So I get what you’re saying but especially against aces, that ‘bit of utility’ might well be the difference between getting a shot or not, the I6 coordinate turning a turret or barrel rolling something to get arc. On the same theme, quantity of dice isn’t the only metric. Fully modded shots count for a lot.

Magva is a cheaper imitation of fenn and less points. Granted you can still use focus tokens against ships, but only being able to reroll one attack die helps neuter alpha strike fully modded shots. And he has a bigger base to help block, more health and 1 more attack die with the same coordinate ability.

Food for thought.

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3 hours ago, uscsmurf said:

Magva is a cheaper imitation of fenn and less points. Granted you can still use focus tokens against ships, but only being able to reroll one attack die helps neuter alpha strike fully modded shots. And he has a bigger base to help block, more health and 1 more attack die with the same coordinate ability.

Food for thought.

Not even close to the same. focus + 1 reroll on 4 dice attacks is still 3.5 expected hits down from 3.75 expected hits from a focus + target lock. Fenn shuts down proton torps to 2 expected hits.

Magva only saving grace is she can work against multiple attacks. So three proton torps only do 10.5 (3.5+3.5+3.5) expected hits instead of 11.25 (3.75*3). Although Fenn shutting down one torp to 2 hits, and the others fully modded (2+3.75+3.75) is only 9.5 expected hits. So Fenn is still better against multiple torps. 🤫

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14 hours ago, wurms said:

Not even close to the same. focus + 1 reroll on 4 dice attacks is still 3.5 expected hits down from 3.75 expected hits from a focus + target lock. Fenn shuts down proton torps to 2 expected hits.

Taking that same line of thinking, you listed Thane as one of the Fenn alternatives. Considering Luke / Wedge / Fenn jousting Luke / Wedge / Thane (Luke+Wedge with Proton Torps on both lists). If Fenn nerfs the opposing Wedge attack and helps his Wedge have full mods, who comes out on top? My math is probably off, and I'm not sure it proves much, but I think it's something like:

(assuming unmodified defense dice throughout)

Fenn / Wedge / Luke:

Wedge: expected damage against a non-Luke x-wing 3.375 (assume one defense dice against proton torps)

Luke: expected damage against a non-Luke x-wing 2.714 (assume one defense dice and only one force token available for offense)

Fenn : expected damage 0.508

Thane / Wedge / Luke:

Wedge: expected damage 1.648

Luke: expected damage 2.714

Thane: expected damage 1.531 (assuming target lock and range 2) better if damage has already been dealt

If my math is on the right lines here, Fenn is going to actually better Thane in a straight joust courtesy of nerfing one attack and helping Wedge get full mods. Also, my contention is that as Fenn can coordinate a focus / red boost for wedge before he moves you're increasing the odds of getting proton torps away.

The cool thing about x-wing is the complexity of it, so I know this kind of comparison is only so useful. What if Thane gets range 1? What about when there's damage already? etc. etc. Still, for that initial alpha strike, I've been finding Fenn / Luke / Wedge pretty compelling.

Edited by eljms
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i am thinking about something like this maybe?

(52) Wedge Antilles
(1) Trick Shot
(0) Servomotor S-foils
Points 53

(38) Sabine Wren
(2) Debris Gambit
Points 40

(42) Jan Ors
(12) Moldy Crow
Points 54

(52) Fenn Rau
(1) Trick Shot
Points 53

Total points: 200

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On 11/27/2018 at 1:15 AM, wurms said:

Not even close to the same. focus + 1 reroll on 4 dice attacks is still 3.5 expected hits down from 3.75 expected hits from a focus + target lock. Fenn shuts down proton torps to 2 expected hits.

Magva only saving grace is she can work against multiple attacks. So three proton torps only do 10.5 (3.5+3.5+3.5) expected hits instead of 11.25 (3.75*3). Although Fenn shutting down one torp to 2 hits, and the others fully modded (2+3.75+3.75) is only 9.5 expected hits. So Fenn is still better against multiple torps. 🤫

True but if your opponent is only taking target locks and can’t get that focus Magva still helps. And she is cheaper than Fenn even of expected damage is higher for using Magva over Fenn. Frees up some points elsewhere and still helps lessen attacks.

granted over the course of a game Fenn would be better, Magva still isn’t a bad choice if you don’t have the points for Fenn, and she has more health on her.