7 hours ago, Derrault said:

Luke is fine as far as it goes, but he has less firepower, can’t be upgraded to do even more damage (+4 black dice for 20 points is the most efficient dice upgrade in the game), is pretty much useless until he hits melee Range, and is substantially slower.

...And he takes up a totally different slot in the force org chart and is a totally different modelling experience.

Quote

There’s little point comparing a Rebel unit to an Imperial unit like Boba, as there’s zero opportunity cost.

Yes. I get so tired of hearing purely academic "Never take Rebel unit X when Imperial unit Y is so much better" presented as if they aren't theoretical arguments.

15 hours ago, Kingsguard said:

I'm all about the rebels.

Here ya go:

Quote

I could talk to my buddy and maybe get a second core set but we'd just probably give each other the faction we don't like. lol. Would be nice to have more dice and tokens also.

Yes this is the main thing. Each having your own dice and rulers is important in the medium to long term and by the time you buy those and anything else from the box, like that extra AT-RT someone mentioned, you'd may as well buy another core set. I would assume you'd split a second core set if you bought it, so you'd each have 4 squads and 2 vehicles for one faction.

On 11/22/2018 at 9:40 AM, Kingsguard said:

So a buddy of mine and I just split our money and bought the core set. We just spend a couple hours tonight figuring out the game and I am already looking at expanding my team.

I have my eye on the fleet Troopers and Princess Leia because I liked them ever since I first saw their last stand in A New Hope. but first I wanted to see what you folks think of them? What's the standard team points you build for?

Would 2 Fleet Troops Expansions and Leia be enough for a team when combined with the Core set guys? Are they good?

welcome you will love the game I bought 2 cores but fleet trooper are good and good place to start but recommend also get commandos they are a good unit for some to get early keep budget down.

6 hours ago, TauntaunScout said:

$9 is a steal for a toy this detailed.

Cheaper than the Action Fleets of old! May as well get Them as toys for kids too at this price.

3 hours ago, smickletz said:

Cheaper than the Action Fleets of old! May as well get Them as toys for kids too at this price.

Sold out now.

And man, I remember those Action Fleets...

13 hours ago, ScummyRebel said:

Sold out now.

And man, I remember those Action Fleets...

They were after my time. I barely knicked into them purely as collectibles before they went crazy. I think I still have the original 6 in box somewhere.

For me it's all about the Kenner Micro Collection. A lot of time spent watching a home dubbed copy of ESB while playing with those in front of the tv.

23 hours ago, ScummyRebel said:

Sold out now.

And man, I remember those Action Fleets...

Action Fleet toys were the schizz. Still are, if you saved them like I did.

My kids and I totally chase each other around the house making all of the necessary sound effects, wielding our chosen ship while my wife tells us to stop running.

Also, I would by lying if I pretended the kids were always involved...I defy anyone who says they can pick up the X-Wing or Snowspeeder and not swoop it around in front of them at least a few times while making epic engine and/or shooting sounds!

12 hours ago, Jedhead said:

I defy anyone who says they can pick up the X-Wing or Snowspeeder and not swoop it around in front of them at least a few times

What like this?

On 11/24/2018 at 6:41 PM, Jedhead said:

Also, I would by lying if I pretended the kids were always involved...

Isn't the whole purpose of having kids so you can buy even more toys and watch even more cartoons, only, without the social judgement?

FYI, core sets are $54 shipped, on Amazon now. For anyone on a tight budget. Two core sets and Leia is two 800 point armies for under $150... I like supporting my local store and get most of my expansions and such from them but $54 core sets is just insanely cheap models.

On 11/22/2018 at 8:06 PM, SirCormac said:

Sadly, it is one of the most inefficient scalpels in the game. However you slice it, it sucks. If you want a good scalpel, take Luke or Boba. I wish the thing worked, but it is near the bottom of every efficiency list. Considering how critical activations are in this game, it just isn't worth it when you can take 2-3 other units that will easily out damage it AND give you more activations.

Aww man, out activating your opponent is a thing in legions also? I hated the activation game in StarWars Minis. "Oh I'm gonna bring like 20 mouse droids so I can win in activations hurpa durp"

1 minute ago, Kingsguard said:

Aww man, out activating your opponent is a thing in legions also? I hated the activation game in StarWars Minis. "Oh I'm gonna bring like 20 mouse droids so I can win in activations hurpa durp"

Yes it is. Though the other night I found a neat little trick for dealing with an opponent who brings more activations than me: just kill everything.

By turn 2 I had more activations than them.

I would "waste" powerful attacks on very weak units just to eliminate a unit entirely. As opposed to not wanting to "waste" the extra unallocated wounds.

It's good to read all the discussion going on in the replies here. Definitely getting an idea of the gameplay.

I tried playing against my buddy again tonight. He hasn't bought anything new so he is still using the core set stuff. Since I had more figures I let him build his squad and then built a squad of similar point cost

Ended up being Vader, 2 Stormtrooper corps and the Speeder Bikes VS Luke, Leia and 2 Fleet Trooper corps

We didn't get to finish our game but I was losing. Lost a couple more troops than he had. It's kinda tough since Stormies have red defense dice....

I tried at one point doing a standby action with my fleet troops but he used his Master of Evil card to give everybody suppression tokens so I think that screwed me up pretty bad.

Standby actions seem kinda crappy or am I wrong?

If I have my dudes standing by and vader runs up on them, do I get to attack before Vader makes his free attack?

Also he displaced one of my corps with his speeder bikes at one point and I just put them behind one of the barricades. Can I really do that? Seems kinda cheesy to almost get run over and then pop up behind a barricade.

Also can somebody tell me how grenades work? If I equip them to my troopers does it work like adding a figure and I can make the grenade attack in addition to the regular attacks? Do they replace the regular attacks? Please advise.

11 minutes ago, TauntaunScout said:

Yes it is. Though the other night I found a neat little trick for dealing with an opponent who brings more activations than me: just kill everything.

By turn 2 I had more activations than them.

I would "waste" powerful attacks on very weak units just to eliminate a unit entirely. As opposed to not wanting to "waste" the extra unallocated wounds.

Yeah, it was the same in StarWars minis. You can't play careful when the other guy outactivated you. You had to be very aggressive because otherwise you let him play to his strength.

3 hours ago, Kingsguard said:

Standby actions seem kinda crappy or am I wrong?

You're wrong

3 hours ago, Kingsguard said:

If I have my dudes standing by and vader runs up on them, do I get to attack before Vader makes his free attack?

Yup! In fact, that specific example is given in the Rules Reference Guide under Standby.

3 hours ago, Kingsguard said:

Also he displaced one of my corps with his speeder bikes at one point and I just put them behind one of the barricades. Can I really do that? Seems kinda cheesy to almost get run over and then pop up behind a barricade

If that placement was in cohesion with their unit leader, then sure.

3 hours ago, Kingsguard said:

Also can somebody tell me how grenades work? If I equip them to my troopers does it work like adding a figure and I can make the grenade attack in addition to the regular attacks? Do they replace the regular attacks? Please advise. 

You want to read through the steps of making an attack in the RRG. Each mini in the unit is going to choose one weapon they have that can legally attack the declared target. If you have access to more than one weapon, you can declare multiple targets within one attack action, but all minis using the same weapon must attack the same target. So you could have your DL rifle (or rocket launcher) attack one target, two guys with their regular blasters hit another, and the rest use grenades on a closer target.

If they're all attacking the same target, weapon keywords apply to the entire attack pool, so getting Blast/Impact/whatever from the grenades apply to any of the dice you rolled.

5 hours ago, Turan said:

You're wrong

Hmm, so how are standby actions used effectively? Can you give examples?

5 hours ago, Turan said:

If that placement was in cohesion with their unit leader, then sure.

The unit leader was also displaced so I moved him behind a barricade within range 1.

5 hours ago, Turan said:

If they're all attacking the same target, weapon keywords apply to the entire attack pool, so getting Blast/Impact/whatever from the grenades apply to any of the dice you rolled.

So a squad of 4 Stormtroopers equipped with impact grenades within range 1 of an enemy can roll 4 black dice? Does the Impact ability stack for each attack negating 4 defense dice? Or is it a single 4 dice attack which negates 1 defense dice?

1 hour ago, Kingsguard said:

Hmm, so how are standby actions used effectively? Can you give examples?

So a squad of 4 Stormtroopers equipped with impact grenades within range 1 of an enemy can roll 4 black dice? Does the Impact ability stack for each attack negating 4 defense dice? Or is it a single 4 dice attack which negates 1 defense dice?

Standby example that works great: fleet troopers are tucked inside a walled off area, the only real ways in are in the range 1-2 bubble. There’s an objective or other reason to be in there. Standby gives them a way to open fire on anyone trying to get in before they can proc an ability of their own (standby triggers before any “after you perform a move, you may perform a...” actions).

Its even better on the 1.4 turret or eweb with a standby range of 1-3. But essentially the goal for it would be area denial or being able to respond to something when you’re still tucked in well enough to avoid the suppression.

Grenades: yes, all minis can use the weapon, so a squad of 4 stormies at range 1 can all toss a single black dice. And impact does stack - they’ll have impact 4. However, you’re confusing impact with pierce. That would be bonkers.

Impact just turns a hit to a crit if the target has the keyword armor (and only then). It is a way to help represent stuff that does better than normal against armored vehicles.

Pierce is the one that cancels defense die.

11 hours ago, TauntaunScout said:

Yes it is. Though the other night I found a neat little trick for dealing with an opponent who brings more activations than me: just kill everything.

turns out sometimes murder IS an appropriate method of career advancement.

13 hours ago, Kingsguard said:

Standby actions seem kinda crappy or am I wrong?

I am going to weigh in and say, no, you are definitely not wrong (in most cases). Standby is generally pretty crappy. The exception to this would be units with sentinel as a keyword, as their standby range is increased enough to actually remain effective in almost every circumstance.

That said, standby can be applied on occasion to great effect by non-sentinel units. The "corner-camping" strategy noted above is a good example of how fleet troopers can use it to force hard choices and potentially wreck a unit. In all honesty, though, it is difficult to pull this off very often, and I see standby as an extremely situational and generally poor action for the vast majority of units in the vast majority of cases.

5 hours ago, Kingsguard said:

Hmm, so how are standby actions used effectively? Can you give examples?

Standby is good when...

- you have longer range than your opponents. Stormtroopers with a rifle in decent cover or near an objective go into standby, and get to peg many enemies before they're in danger of being hit. Same with snipers. I would go so far as to say that Aim and Standby on a sniper or emplacement could be one of the best first activations to make in a round to limit your opponent's movement options.

- you're facing units with compulsory moves. If your opponent is playing speeder bikes, anything you fear the bikes will be coming for can use standby to get hits on them after the compulsory move before they can actually choose to do something.

- as previously mentioned, you have a defensible location or some kind of bottleneck in terrain where you have to be approached to be threatened.

It's not, like, a God action that you want every unit to take every turn, but it has its place for effectiveness, just as much as spending an action to get a dodge or aim token.

37 minutes ago, Turan said:

Standby is good when...

- you have longer range than your opponents. Stormtroopers with a rifle in decent cover or near an objective go into standby, and get to peg many enemies before they're in danger of being hit. Same with snipers. I would go so far as to say that Aim and Standby on a sniper or emplacement could be one of the best first activations to make in a round to limit your opponent's movement options.

- you're facing units with compulsory moves. If your opponent is playing speeder bikes, anything you fear the bikes will be coming for can use standby to get hits on them after the compulsory move before they can actually choose to do something.

- as previously mentioned, you have a defensible location or some kind of bottleneck in terrain where you have to be approached to be threatened.

It's not, like, a God action that you want every unit to take every turn, but it has its place for effectiveness, just as much as spending an action to get a dodge or aim token.

The problem with some of your above-mentioned examples is that the standby will only trigger when the enemy is within range 1-2.

You mention Stormtroopers with a rifle or sniper teams as being able to take advantage of their longer range, but this is precisely why standby is usually a wasted action on them--they won't get to shoot unless an enemy is foolish enough to blunder into range 1-2, when the very units you put on standby usually want to hit at range 4+, and most enemy units will want to hit back at range 3. Too many units possess the range to simply sit outside the standby threat area and shoot you from there, and even when short-range units are on the table, they will often wait for a longer-ranged ally to simply knock your standby token off before they move in close to wreck you.

That leaves you only bottlenecks and weird corners as legitimate contenders for regular us of standby tokens, though I will grant that compulsory moves as a trigger add some utility.

As you mention, it is certainly no God-action, and though it does have its moments where it is effective, I would argue that those moments are far, far less frequent than the moments enjoyed by a dodge or aim token, which are virtually always useful. That is what makes standby a generally poor action by comparison--it is only good in a few very limited circumstances (sentinel, as previously noted, being the exception), whereas your other actions will benefit you in a myriad of game states.

Put another way: how many times a game do you take an aim or dodge action as opposed to a standby token? I often go entire games without using standby, but I rarely ever go even a single round without taking an aim or a dodge token. Those actions possess a utility that is hard to ignore. That makes standby a less useful action in my eyes, and not by a trivial amount.

Edit* If the upcoming overwatch upgrade does in fact grant sentinel, I could see that instantly making standby a much more viable action, though the fact that you are still out-ranged by snipers and the like is problematic, as they can effectively shoot the token off of you if desired.

14 hours ago, Jedhead said:

they won't get to shoot unless an enemy is foolish enough to blunder into range 1-2

Hopefully, one has enough terrain on the table that it's nearly impossible to get a clear fire lane for the full range 4-to-infinite.

But you're not wrong, it's situational, as is every other action in the game. Do I take it more or less often than I choose to Aim or Dodge? Depends on the game and the layout of the table. I don't think I've ever gone an entire game without using it. Would I agree with the description that it's a crappy action? Obviously not. You can, if you like.

1 hour ago, Turan said:

Would I agree with the description that it's a crappy action? Obviously not. You can, if you like.

Fair enough.

Terrain also massively impacts its utility, as you note, and makes it much more useful on certain boards. It is also disproportionately affected by the scenario in combination with the terrain, as it becomes instantly more useful when objectives-based play forces an opponent to contest an objective in tight spaces.

Hmm, so Standby is good for camping corners basically. Well, I guess that's something at least.

On 12/7/2018 at 9:18 AM, Turan said:

You want to read through the steps of making an attack in the RRG. Each mini in the unit is going to choose one weapon they have that can legally attack the declared target. If you have access to more than one weapon, you can declare multiple targets within one attack action, but all minis using the same weapon must attack the same target. So you could have your DL rifle (or rocket launcher) attack one target, two guys with their regular blasters hit another, and the rest use grenades on a closer target.

If they're all attacking the same target, weapon keywords apply to the entire attack pool, so getting Blast/Impact/whatever from the grenades apply to any of the dice you rolled.

Huh, that's kind of weird that different weapons are the only way to split up attacks. I would expect it to be something you can do with any attack on no attacks. Obviously I see the mechanical reason for not choosing no attacks. I mean if you have a group of Stormtroopers which includes a rocket guy and they are staring down a group of troopers and an AT-RT, forcing your corps to choose only one target would feel like a waste no matter which you chose. But why not just let any attack be against any target?

That last part is crazy though. So 4 Fleet Troopers using Impact Grenades effectively attack a vehicle with Impact 4?

Well in any case, thanks for the info.

15 hours ago, Kingsguard said:

So 4 Fleet Troopers using Impact Grenades effectively attack a vehicle with Impact 4?

No, they're getting the Impact keyword from one weapon. If you had three troopers attacking with impact grenades and one with the HH-12 (ignoring the fact that this isn't a legal attack in terms of range), the attack pool would have Impact 1 from the grenades and Impact 3 from the HH-12, for a total of Impact 4. The keywords are per weapon used, not per mini. This is all in the Rules Reference under Weapon Keywords.