This hasn't been talked about enough.

Darth Maul

Big Base Tie Phantom

Hype.

Well there is a cloak token, so...

Just now, CerberusUC said:

Well there is a cloak token, so...

Title will probably add the Cloak action.

Large base with Sloop 2s. 😈 I'm going to have allot of fun with this. His abilities are just the gravy on top.

More of those mystery tokens too.

Stoppit, I’m trying to save money by only getting Vultures for CIS.

Drop Bomb

Decloak Forward

5 K Turn

I'm interested to see what the probe droid does.

9 minutes ago, BVRCH said:

I'm interested to see what the probe droid does.

I wonder if it will allow you to put your ship in reserve and instead deploy the probe droid beyond range 3 of an enemy. Then after set up is complete, you can deploy your ship using the one template out of any of the slots on the droid. Or maybe use it like hyperspace markers.

2 minutes ago, BrotherFett said:

I wonder if it will allow you to put your ship in reserve and instead deploy the probe droid beyond range 3 of an enemy. Then after set up is complete, you can deploy your ship using the one template out of any of the slots on the droid. Or maybe use it like hyperspace markers.

That would be amazing!

24 minutes ago, Boom Owl said:

Drop Bomb

Decloak Forward

5 K Turn

What bomb??? I see no indicator of a device slot...

I'm guessing the Sith Probe Droid will be some type of movable intel agent on it's own that can only use a select slower speed of maneuvers that go in one of those guide spots.

Also, gunner was good in 1st edition. Will be good in 2nd edition, just have to manage the force charges correctly. Glad that it's gonna be an ability on a pilot rather than a widely used upgrade.

I really like the pilot ability design. It’s entirely on you to work your resource management to get the (powerful) effect.

On 11/21/2018 at 7:02 PM, Hiemfire said:

Title will probably add the Cloak action.

Large base with Sloop 2s. 😈 I'm going to have allot of fun with this. His abilities are just the gravy on top.

Yeah, I’m looking forward to Maul becoming a pilot. I think he’ll be pretty awesome!

With 10 hull behind 1 green it's going to need that cloak!

1 hour ago, mazz0 said:

With 10 hull behind 1 green it's going to need that cloak!

Yeah, other than a better dial he's basically a Lambda with cloaking, no rear arc and less utility.

I don't think that's a bad thing. The Sith Infiltrator, at least, doesn't seem too power-creepy. Maul's ability is a really interesting one. The '1e Gunner' side seems like the more useful part, actually. A second shot against a different ship is all well and good, but the high Force cost means it's unlikely to be modded; there's a good chance it won't do anything against most ships. But the ability to token strip something and shoot again could be potent, especially given that the first attack doesn't need to be a primary. He comes with two cannons, so the cannon slot seems super likely. I'm wondering if tractor beam might be the best call.

Either they take the tractor beam and are easier for other ships to shoot, or have to deal with rocks, or they spend tokens to block it and Maul gets to lay in them undefended. Maul won't really care about spending his mods on the tractor beam shot - either it works and he's not lost anything, or it doesn't work and he gets to shoot at them properly anyway.

What force upgrade do you stick on Maul? Besides the clearly OP combination of Maul+Brilliant Evasion, of course.

There's a weird argument for Heightened Perception for PS7 double taps to... I-kill Soontir, or something?... but that's still probably bad.

Looks like it has a Torpedo slot, so you could justify Instinctive Aim somewhat, you're still averaging effectively three hits there. And then you can hipfire off a second torpedo if you roll hot and still have a focus or whatever, or if you just really hate modded dice.

FFG's playtesters rudely won't let him have Supernatural Reflexes (and/or Expert Handling). It's just a large base decloak then a red barrel roll then a dial, it's balanced I promise.

Sense is good. Might overlap with the potentially superior probe droid thing. Really the only actual choice?

I think Maul is going to be alot better than people imagine right now.

Being able to modify a single shot whenever you want on 1-3 force charges is pretty valuable.

The dial is solid and I genuinely think the decloak mechanic is going to be central to what makes this ship work.

Wild guess but I suspect this will have 3 agility fairly often.

And thats all before you consider the fact it could be used separately as a crew carrying support boat for a swarm of stuff.

And theres a new force power that hasnt been revealed that comes with it.

Cannon and Missile slot to, so i can tractor or jam or HLC or ion or proton you than shoot a primary, and importantly modify both shots.

We have precedent that throughout the history of X-Wing that things that can shoot more than once have been exceptional. Dengar, Corran, Quickdraw, TLT, and the ghost were all way above the curve. From what we know his ship stats are good, the dial is good, his pilot ability is great, he can have force crew, and he can cloak. He's going to be great imo.

40 minutes ago, svelok said:

What force upgrade do you stick on Maul? Besides the clearly OP combination of Maul+Brilliant Evasion, of course.

Probably the new one. The one everyone suspects will be our first Dark Side power.

I'm really curious how those are going to work. Do they take up a separate slot from the normal Force slot? Is Vader going to get one added to him if so?

Do they use the existing slot Force power slot? If so, how are they restricted such that only Vader, Maul and Kylo and the Inquisitors can use them?

42 minutes ago, Boom Owl said:

I think Maul is going to be alot better than people imagine right now.

Being able to modify a single shot whenever you want on 1-3 force charges is pretty valuable.

It's not that much better than Luke though, is it? How often do you roll three eye results on an attack? I mean, it can happen but it's super rare. Luke doesn't need to save one for defence either, so he effectively has 3 or even 4 tokens if he spends both on his attack and then defends once or twice.

I know that Luke is a top pilot at the moment, but large base ships not named Jendon are struggling. Maul is another large base, 1 agility ship. There's not much his Force tokens can do defensively.

45 minutes ago, Boom Owl said:

The dial is solid and I genuinely think the decloak mechanic is going to be central to what makes this ship work.

Wild guess but I suspect this will have 3 agility fairly often.

Yeah, the cloak's the important bit.

But it's also very obviously a balance mechanic. The obvious play seems to be shoot twice with Maul and spend all your tokens, then cloak for a round to regen tokens while you can't fire and rely on a normal focus action to make the most of your 3-4 green dice. That means Maul actually only averages a shot a round, but like Corran it's ever so slightly better because you're concentrating fire.

48 minutes ago, Boom Owl said:

And thats all before you consider the fact it could be used separately as a crew carrying support boat for a swarm of stuff.

A three agility support ship sounds nasty, but it will be a support ship that can't shoot. Maul himself is obviously going to be expensive, and the Infiltrator has no native support actions.

Again, while I wouldn't put it past FFG to give the CIS some overpowered crew, all the scary parts of that idea are countered by all the ways it's not scary.

25 minutes ago, SnooSnarry said:

We have precedent that throughout the history of X-Wing that things that can shoot more than once have been exceptional. Dengar, Corran, Quickdraw, TLT, and the ghost were all way above the curve.

Literally all of those were ships that could shoot twice at the same target though. The only way Maul can do that is if he fluffs his first shot. All of those ships also had access to non restricted upgrades like Predator, FCS and Expertise that gave them free dice mods on both shots.

Maul is just first edition Gunner and second edition Bistan rolled into one. While Gunner was strong in the right build on the right ship, it wasn't OP as a card. The best use of it was either something like fat Han, which benefited massively from the 360 arc and the stack of nigh on broken crew cards, or something that'd combo'ed for an overly potent secondary effect, like Tactician to double stress. Bistan, meanwhile, is hardly setting 2e alight.

There's nothing currently in second edition that would stack unfairly with a miss and a second attempt. Maul is also going to be super expensive. While a miss can still token strip and a followup can be dangerous, is it going to be better than just having two smaller base ships?

Lastly, Maul has to spend useful dice mods to do it. It's not even as easy as Bistan, who at least only has to have a focus to trigger. Maul basically has to spend a focus to trigger his second shot. Maul won't have access to Predator, and we don't know if he'll get a sensor slot for FCS. There's nothing to say he'll have an easy time modding both shots.

Maul's going to be strong, of course. But that double tap isn't the same as the worst of 1e, and as a large base with only a fixed forward 3 dice primary he's really going to struggle with anything that gets behind him. At the moment I feel like Proton Torps Wedge would eat him for breakfast.

3 minutes ago, GuacCousteau said:

At the moment I feel like Proton Torps Wedge would eat him for breakfast.

Lol

Anyways, double tap is always incredible. You act like all of the above mentioned double taps never missed their first shot. And shooting 1 ship, dealing damage, and shooting another ship to also deal damage is still great ability. He also has cloak, and his dial is good so I have no idea why you don't think he can't get ships in arc with his large base arc. Let's not forget all of the negative effect tokens that come in his pack too like jam, tractor, and the new red token. There's literally only pros to talk about for Maul.

2 minutes ago, SnooSnarry said:

Lol

Well why not?

All the Force tokens in the world won't help when you're rolling zero evade dice, if you stay cloaked your movements are easier to predict because you're not getting the pre movement barrel roll or boost and you also don't get to shoot back, Maul moves before Wedge anyway, and only has a red barrel roll to help him out so his ability to arc dodge is heavily limites, Maul is on a large base which is easier than anything to line up shots on...

His statline is basically a Lambda, and I've seen what Wedge can do a Lambda with torps when it can't reinforce. It's not pretty.

I for one choose blind hype.

Also, ships dont need to be broken with zero weaknesses to be fun.

Im 100% down for a I5, 3 force, 10 hp, 3 attack ship that can shoot twice take torps, cannons, crew, device, easily turn around, and cloak having significant weaknesses in the form of being vulnerable on defense and forward arc locked.

Every ship is supposed to be bad in some significant way or mediocre/average in every way.

Maul looks like fun.

I have no idea if it will be good or not, just wild speculation on my part that itll be pretty ok.

23 minutes ago, GuacCousteau said:

Well why not?

All the Force tokens in the world won't help when you're rolling zero evade dice, if you stay cloaked your movements are easier to predict because you're not getting the pre movement barrel roll or boost and you also don't get to shoot back, Maul moves before Wedge anyway, and only has a red barrel roll to help him out so his ability to arc dodge is heavily limites, Maul is on a large base which is easier than anything to line up shots on...

His statline is basically a Lambda, and I've seen what Wedge can do a Lambda with torps when it can't reinforce. It's not pretty.

The ffg forums, where you have people trying to argue that ships won't be good because Wedge exists. Lol

Let's look at the history of the game. The past 4 worlds winning lists have all had ships that can shoot more than once, and both finals lists with double taps in their lists all 4 years. Wedge had never even been close to a worlds top cut, and he still isn't today. I'd place my money on Maul > Wedge every time.

18 minutes ago, SnooSnarry said:

Anyways, double tap is always incredible.

Typically only when you can modify both shots.

1 hour ago, svelok said:

There's a weird argument for Heightened Perception for PS7 double taps to... I-kill Soontir, or something?... but that's still probably bad.

Using Heightened Perception requires a force token. Which means Maul won't have the 2 he needs to perform his double tap.

Update: Maul had 3 tokens. And 3>2.