I sent some feedback regarding the app to the developers, and asked the following question:

"What happens if someone else tries to scan a deck I've claimed? Do I have to unregister my deck as mine before I give it to someone else?"

And I received the following answer:

"As for your question – yes, decks can be scanned multiple times and be registered under multiple users at the same time. (Only the first registration gets the aember shards though!) Our reasoning (as you pointed out) is that players may trade decks or they may want to follow tournament scores of friends/rivals decks."

There are a number of interesting implications here.

• Each deck is tracked by itself, not with regard to any player.
• Don't leave newly opened decks around unscanned, or someone might swipe your precious æmbershards!

I had a third, but I've forgotten what it was. Typical.

This makes it seem less likely they're going to have an online play implementation using the mastervault deck database.

.

23 hours ago, SingularThey said:

This makes it seem less likely they're going to have an online play implementation using the mastervault deck database.

I am extremely disappointed they have discarded such a great opportunity. Additionally, I feel the vault as a whole is pretty disappointing.

On 11/22/2018 at 12:16 AM, SingularThey said:

This makes it seem less likely they're going to have an online play implementation using the mastervault deck database.

In theory you will only let friends scan your decks. I would hope they are good enough friends to respect your wishes and refrain from using your deck in an online tournament when you want to use it. That would apply to not using it at all if that is your wish. I would trust anybody I would let scan my deck to respect my wishes.

On 11/22/2018 at 7:16 AM, SingularThey said:

This makes it seem less likely they're going to have an online play implementation using the mastervault deck database.

Alternatively, online registration could be the same as for IRL tournaments, presumably scanning the QR code, in which case they still couldn't play with your decks online even if they had them in their app because they'd be unable to scan the deck's QR code.

28 minutes ago, Palpster said:

Alternatively, online registration could be the same as for IRL tournaments, presumably scanning the QR code, in which case they still couldn't play with your decks online even if they had them in their app because they'd be unable to scan the deck's QR code.

Unless they took a photo of the QR code when they were scanning it the last time, or when the owner wasn't looking. Too open for abuse.

I think they may have did this because of the secondary market as well. The QR being scanned makes it to where only that person reaps the extra benefits with the deck. But it also if you try to sell it (if you’re into that type of thing) it discourages it heavily.

Because once a deck is scanned it becomes restricted.

I understand where FFG is coming from but the QR could’ve been to register the deck without making it restrictive. To give FFG the ability to track the deck in OP and still allow for better trading persay. Because right now that’s discouraged.

I wish they had not made them untradeable, my friends wont trade because of the whole QR issue.

39 minutes ago, Cgriffith said:

I think they may have did this because of the secondary market as well. The QR being scanned makes it to where only that person reaps the extra benefits with the deck. But it also if you try to sell it (if you’re into that type of thing) it discourages it heavily.

Because once a deck is scanned it becomes restricted.

I understand where FFG is coming from but the QR could’ve been to register the deck without making it restrictive. To give FFG the ability to track the deck in OP and still allow for better trading persay. Because right now that’s discouraged.

I wish they had not made them untradeable, my friends wont trade because of the whole QR issue.

They are tradable. They can be traded and reregistered in someone else's account. The limitation here is that only the first person to do that gets the æmber shard – which at some point will allow for promotional items.

This is something I've been wondering about. I'm happy to hear that the æmber is only gainable once. That will prevent exploitation.

So for the resellers/secondary market you need to make a decision to scan/not scan a deck.

It might sell better (specially in the early stages) to have unscanned decks (incl. the amber shard).

For the 2ndary market the amber shard might not make much of a diff. Once this market gets going a lot of decks will be scanned already and the amber shared is 'reaped' . 😉 Plus, once the Keyforge website will start listing "Chains" & Power (coming soon) it will offer the seller a 'grade' to go with the deck.

And in sealed/tourament play the decks will be required to be scanned i guess.

8 hours ago, Cgriffith said:

I wish they had not made them untradeable, my friends wont trade because of the whole QR issue.

I wonder in what way you think the decks are un-tradeable?

All created decks are in the main database with their name and QR
Banned decks are flagged (But you will only find out once you register first!)

Once someone scans a deck they reap the amber shard and it will
- be registered to their account.
- The database will be updated that this decks is "out there".
FFG confirms that other people can scan the deck as well (for sharing, insights, etc)

If you buy a deck you can keep it or give it away, even if it is registered. You can opt to no use it or scan it and trade it.

Except the power the FFG has to ban/delist/grade the deck, it doesnt restrict the trade market that much i expect. PLus you can remove a deck from your account also!

Lets see if KF will at all be a new market staple.

If FFG choose to go down the route of allowing online play with registered paper decks, they could always restrict it to the first account to register that deck, same as with earning Æether shards for registering a deck.

On 11/25/2018 at 4:25 AM, AskMantis said:

If FFG choose to go down the route of allowing online play with registered paper decks, they could always restrict it to the first account to register that deck, same as with earning Æether shards for registering a deck.

And then you could remove your deck from your account (already possible) and trade it away.
If FFG decide to keep it locked to the account then better not register it in the first place but trade it away immediately. But that doesnt make too much sense as you might want to play with the deck, discover you dont like it, and then trade it. If it was locked to your account then it might pose a problem. But i think FFG support might be able help you out in this case?

if FFG decides to restrict the trading/resales then they cross the "Right of Sale" doctrine, at least in the US?!

A friend of mine traded me a deck he had registered, and hasn't yet unregistered. It's cool to hear that I can register the deck myself, but if he goes and unregisters it, do I lose it as well, or does it just remove that deck from his ownership? Should I wait to register the deck until after he unregisters it?

43 minutes ago, Whiz Canmaj said:

A friend of mine traded me a deck he had registered, and hasn't yet unregistered. It's cool to hear that I can register the deck myself, but if he goes and unregisters it, do I lose it as well, or does it just remove that deck from his ownership? Should I wait to register the deck until after he unregisters it?

There is no "owning" with regard to the app. There is only discovering a deck, which means that the first person to scan the deck will get an aembershard and the deck is now searchable in the database. Then there is registering a deck, which anyone can do with any deck (that they can scan/enter it's code). Neither of these make someone the owner, it just adds the deck to your list of decks, that's all.

So yeah, feel free to register your traded deck and it doesn't matter wether the previous owner unregisters it or not.

So... hang on a sec... does that mean more than one person could, somehow, play the same deck in official tournaments? Let's say I own Warlord Greatmill Amundsen (cuz, y'know, I do). I bring it to a chainbound tournamnet this weekend. My buddy then scans my code and registers the deck too. Can he then play that same deck at a different event the day/week/fortnight after?

11 minutes ago, twinstarbmc said:

So... hang on a sec... does that mean more than one person could, somehow, play the same deck in official tournaments? Let's say I own Warlord Greatmill Amundsen (cuz, y'know, I do). I bring it to a chainbound tournamnet this weekend. My buddy then scans my code and registers the deck too. Can he then play that same deck at a different event the day/week/fortnight after?

If you both have access to the physical deck, sure. Just not at the same tournament, pretty sure you will get an error when trying to enter a second copy of a deck into a tourney.

43 minutes ago, twinstarbmc said:

So... hang on a sec... does that mean more than one person could, somehow, play the same deck in official tournaments? Let's say I own Warlord Greatmill Amundsen (cuz, y'know, I do). I bring it to a chainbound tournamnet this weekend. My buddy then scans my code and registers the deck too. Can he then play that same deck at a different event the day/week/fortnight after?

Even worse than that. what happens if someone gets your QR code and scans it, then proxy prints the deck well enough it's indiscernible, then claims your deck is the proxy printed one and that you are trying to scam him after a trade?

30 minutes ago, Palpster said:

If you both have access to the physical deck, sure. Just not at the same tournament, pretty sure you will get an error when trying to enter a second copy of a deck into a tourney.

so proxy print the "best deck" then first come first serve? yikes.

This is why you cover your QR codes, I guess. Although I have no idea how feasible it is to create perfect looking proxies, anytime I've used proxies it was usually just a slip of paper in front of another card saying "Jackson Howard" 😁

covering your QR codes does nothing after you register the deck...you would need to keep the name hidden. Otherwise you can just look it up and get the GUID

1 minute ago, Palpster said:

This is why you cover your QR codes, I guess. Although I have no idea how feasible it is to create perfect looking proxies, anytime I've used proxies it was usually just a slip of paper in front of another card saying "Jackson Howard" 😁

i've proxy printed some LOTR cards and you could absolutely not tell the backs apart from the original. unless FFG has some secret trick to identifying this (which i doubt).

10 minutes ago, papalorax said:

covering your QR codes does nothing after you register the deck...you would need to keep the name hidden. Otherwise you can just look it up and get the GUID

I'm curious to see if indeed this is possible. So here:

"Questarmy, the Knight of the Realm"

That is one of the decks I actually own (and a pretty bad one at that). Can you, or anyone else, tell me the code needed to register it for a tournament?? (asuming the code can be used and it isn't QR only)

1 minute ago, Palpster said:

I'm curious to see if indeed this is possible. So here:

"Questarmy, the Knight of the Realm"

That is one of the decks I actually own (and a pretty bad one at that). Can you, or anyone else tell me the code needed to register it for a tournament??

that's another thought i had. what if it's possible to reverse-engineer the GUID based on the information about the deck such as cards in it the name, and the art.

I don’t really see handing your friend a physical deck to use in a physical tournament as problematic in any way.

All the hypotheses about people printing, scanning and arguing over who is the rightful owner of a deck in an online tournament sounds depressingly plausible. I’m sure some ambitious and moderately sociopathic nerd will do this eventually. I think this does suggest there will be some other mechanism for online play - if there is ever any mechanism at all, and that the prizes will be small enough that no one is ever willing to sue over them.

Its an interesting digression into how people forget the difference between playing a game for fun while trying to win, and trying to win no matter what level you have to stoop to.

@Palpster I can look up your deck in the app and see the cards in it, but I have no ability to register it, add it to “my decks” or identify the QR or number codes from it. Poor Questarmy. He doesn’t look too bad to me, lol.

3 minutes ago, BigBadAndy said:

Its an interesting digression into how people forget the difference between playing a game for fun while trying to win, and trying to win no matter what level you have to stoop to.

yeah and some people just want to watch the world burn.