Just now, Avatar111 said:

sure but then, i'd still rather be turtling in earth stance than air stance. isn't that the discussion ?

Against a bunch of mooks that hit hard if they hit, but are not very likely to hit (let alone crit)? I'll take my chances trying not to get hit and reducing their numbers asap first. Once there's not as many of them left, sure - turtling up then sounds good.

4 minutes ago, nameless ronin said:

Against a bunch of mooks that hit hard if they hit, but are not very likely to hit (let alone crit)? I'll take my chances trying not to get hit and reducing their numbers asap first. Once there's not as many of them left, sure - turtling up then sounds good.

but a lucky crit... is all it takes! remember that next time you're stuck in a pack of angry goblins.

2 minutes ago, Avatar111 said:

but a lucky crit... is all it takes! remember that next time you're stuck in a pack of angry goblins.

Bad luck is always going to land you in a world of hurt. But one (un)lucky crit doesn't have to mean the end (particularly since if your Air gets wounded you can still be effective in Earth stance trying to outlast the enemy). Getting fatigue'd out on the other hand...

4 minutes ago, nameless ronin said:

Bad luck is always going to land you in a world of hurt. But one (un)lucky crit doesn't have to mean the end (particularly since if your Air gets wounded you can still be effective in Earth stance trying to outlast the enemy). Getting fatigue'd out on the other hand...

situationally, air could be the right choice, but probably the classic will be; heavy armor + striking as earth. if you focus on just rolling opportunities in your tetsubo attack (and have rushing avalanche) you can still do a bit of dmg on miss, and get all those opps to soak like a real tank for the whole round.

pro tip !

2 minutes ago, Avatar111 said:

situationally, air could be the right choice, but probably the classic will be; heavy armor + striking as earth. if you focus on just rolling opportunities in your tetsubo attack (and have rushing avalanche) you can still do a bit of dmg on miss, and get all those opps to soak like a real tank for the whole round.

Must be nice to always walk around in heavy armour, with a tetsubo. We're not all Crab bushi on the Wall though.

1 minute ago, nameless ronin said:

Must be nice to always walk around in heavy armour, with a tetsubo. We're not all Crab bushi on the Wall though.

true true... in crane lands, we use air stance and a nice robe. much more stylish

but just the ceremonial laquered armor 4resist.. with a few opps of striking as earth. i hope your enemies do have tetsubos!! because if they only do 4-5 dmg...

6 minutes ago, Avatar111 said:

true true... in crane lands, we use air stance and a nice robe. much more stylish

but just the ceremonial laquered armor 4resist.. with a few opps of striking as earth. i hope your enemies do have tetsubos!! because if they only do 4-5 dmg...

Ceremonial lacquered armour that's also wargear ? Sure...

6 minutes ago, nameless ronin said:

Ceremonial lacquered armour that's also wargear ? Sure...

hmm interesting contradiction.

can you wear it in formal areas or not ? narrative wise, since it is ceremonial ?

edit: i mean, maybe not in the imperial court.. but chances of you getting rampaged by a bunch of mooks in there are probably very slim.

1 minute ago, Avatar111 said:

hmm interesting contradiction.

can you wear it in formal areas or not ? narrative wise, since it is ceremonial ?

If there's a ceremony of sorts going on where ceremonial armour would be appropriate and you're a bushi, sure. Otherwise, that's going to be a bit of a faux pas.

1 minute ago, nameless ronin said:

If there's a ceremony of sorts going on where ceremonial armour would be appropriate and you're a bushi, sure. Otherwise, that's going to be a bit of a faux pas.

and just wandering around town ? as a bushi ?

3 minutes ago, Avatar111 said:

and just wandering around town ? as a bushi ?

Faux pas. It's wargear. You're implying the local lord can't keep his lands safe. edit: that's what you're implying at minimum . Locals are likely to feel threatened, and local bushi might treat you as a threat.

46 minutes ago, nameless ronin said:

Faux pas. It's wargear. You're implying the local lord can't keep his lands safe. edit: that's what you're implying at minimum . Locals are likely to feel threatened, and local bushi might treat you as a threat.

You're implying one or more of the following:

• Local lord cannot keep the lands safe
• Local bushi have no self control and will attack rather than duel
• local peasants are in rebellion
• you're here to kill a local samurai (possibly the local lord)
• you're on a combat ready job during a period of hostilities (such as gate duty) (during peace time, you wear only part of the armor - equivalent to ashigaru armor)

thanks both. i'm usually pretty decent at understanding (and optimizing) mechanical rules, but all this narrative stuff is not really explained in the core book, and i've never played previous editions, so i'm clueless about it.

where would a bushi, travelling to another land (ie: a Hida travelling to a Crane land) leave his armor ? hopefully not at home...

11 minutes ago, Avatar111 said:

where  would a bushi, travelling to another land (ie: a Hida travelling to a Crane land) leave his  armor ?  hopefully not at home  ...  

That's a very good question. If he has resources or retainers, or is part of a guard detail, he'd pack it away and ship it with him, or ship it separately. If it's just a short diplomatic mission it would probably get left at home, because you shouldn't need it. If it's a long diplomatic detail then your lord may have your belongings shipped ahead of you. At any rate you shouldn't be wearing it, and it will take a while to put on.

I always advised my players to compare it to walking around the streets with a Kevlar vest or full riot gear in normal society. Only in this case, normal society's punishment for being offended is a duel to the death. It's better to be polite. In fact, samurai will almost always choose to be polite over maybe possibly insulting someone and making their duty more difficult. Though there are exceptions...

2 minutes ago, Corg Ironside said:

That's a very good question. If he has resources or retainers, or is part of a guard detail, he'd pack it away and ship it with him, or ship it separately. If it's just a short diplomatic mission it would probably get left at home, because you shouldn't need it. If it's a long diplomatic detail then your lord may have your belongings shipped ahead of you. At any rate you shouldn't be wearing it, and it will take a while to put on.

I always advised my players to compare it to walking around the streets with a Kevlar vest or full riot gear in normal society. Only in this case, normal society's punishment for being offended is a duel to the death. It's better to be polite. In fact, samurai will almost always choose to be polite over maybe possibly insulting someone and making their duty more difficult. Though there are exceptions...

ok so even on the road, travelling, you shouldn't wear armor. so no protection versus those bandits or whatever else. armor is strictly only for "war".

tough life...

29 minutes ago, Avatar111 said:

ok so even on the road, travelling, you shouldn't wear armor. so no protection versus those bandits or whatever else. armor is strictly only for "war".

tough life...

You can wear concealed armor, but this will still raise questions if noticed. Generally speaking, if you're carrying weapons or wearing items with the "wargear" quality you're signalling you consider yourself to be in a situation where deadly violence may break out at any moment - possibly because you will instigate it. The "ceremonial" quality may overrule that for applicable ceremonial functions you attend.

Now, if you do get attacked by bandits while travelling through lands from another lord than your own... you'll at least get to disparage their honor for incompetence. Provided you survive. And if you push it too much they might become impolite towards you. But morally you'll have the high ground.

4 minutes ago, nameless ronin said:

You can wear concealed armor, but this will still raise questions if noticed. Generally speaking, if you're carrying weapons or wearing items with the "wargear" quality you're signalling you consider yourself to be in a situation where deadly violence may break out at any moment - possibly because you will instigate it. The "ceremonial" quality may overrule that for applicable ceremonial functions you attend.

Now, if you do get attacked by bandits while travelling through lands from another lord than your own... you'll at least get to disparage their honor for incompetence. Provided you survive. And if you push it too much they might become impolite towards you. But morally you'll have the high ground.

Sorry if i keep asking more about the subject.

If its a convoy with a VIP person, that are en route to attend some court in a land that are neither at war or at peace (some kind of soft friction / tension)

That VIP have a few guards/yojimbo. They are also expected to be wearing no armor? The guards?

1 hour ago, Avatar111 said:

thanks both. i'm usually pretty decent at understanding (and optimizing) mechanical rules, but all this narrative stuff is not really explained in the core book, and i've never played previous editions, so i'm clueless about it.

where would a bushi, travelling to another land (ie: a Hida travelling to a Crane land) leave his armor ? hopefully not at home...

Bagged.
The bag can be worn as a backpack, or it can be tied to the saddle.
Generally, once one has a room assigned (in an Inn, or in a private residence, or in a keep/castle, or in a temple), it stays there unless needed for duty.

13 minutes ago, Avatar111 said:

Sorry if i keep asking more about the subject.

If its a convoy with a VIP person, that are en route to attend some court in a land that are neither at war or at peace (some kind of soft friction / tension)

That VIP have a few guards/yojimbo. They are also expected to be wearing no armor? The guards?

Strictly speaking, yes. If they do wear armour, they're pretty much saying it actually is war, or at least that the lord they're visiting can't be trusted not to break the tenuous peace.

That said, if the VIP's status is high enough they can get away with a lot of things. It'd still be insulting, but the insulted lord might not be able to do a whole lot about it. If the Emperor chose to travel with a military escort nobody would tell him no (short of an actual coup).

Edit: to expand a bit - take into account that whatever a lord could/would do if a visiting dignitary insinuated he was incompetent or not to be trusted by bringing armed and armored bushi with him will have consequences too. Forcing them to surrender their weapons and armor could spark a war as well. On the other hand, bearing the insult with dignity and honor could earn the hosting lord some glory among his peers. It's politics and honor, so things are hardly cut and dried. As long as you're willing to accept the consequences, you can do anything you want.

21 minutes ago, Avatar111 said:

If  its   a convoy with a VIP person, that are en route to attend some court in a land that are neither at war or at peace (some kind of soft friction / tension  )

That VIP have a few guards/yojimbo  . They are also expected to be  wearing no armor? The  guards   ? 

Correct. No armor. There's 2 things to remember:

1) (I just got ninja'd on this point) Everything has nuance. Everything means something unspoken. So if you're a lord and have your samurai wear armor in someone else's land, you're saying there is definitely going to be a fight. Which can only mean that you're declaring war.

2) Since skirmishes are so deadly, wearing swords is supposed you be the deterrent for anyone wanting to start something. Swords say "I know how to use these well. Attack me at your peril." Armor is only worn for ceremony or when there will undoubtedly be a fight. Armor is intentional, it is never a "just in case" decision.

Hope this makes some sort of sense. Its the difference between the honor bound society of Rokugan, and your typical D&D campaign.

12 minutes ago, Corg Ironside said:

Correct. No armor. There's 2 things to remember:

1) (I just got ninja'd on this point) Everything has nuance. Everything means something unspoken. So if you're a lord and have your samurai wear armor in someone else's land, you're saying there is definitely going to be a fight. Which can only mean that you're declaring war.

2) Since skirmishes are so deadly, wearing swords is supposed you be the deterrent for anyone wanting to start something. Swords say "I know how to use these well. Attack me at your peril." Armor is only worn for ceremony or when there will undoubtedly be a fight. Armor is intentional, it is never a "just in case" decision.

so, to end this discussion; and thank you very much all of you. being a magistrate/police in one own land you could probably wear armor as your on "duty" and responsible to protect (if you have the proper permission, but i expect "police" to have it) . but outside your land, or totally unknown/hostile territory (shadowland is an easy answer), one should not wear armor in public outside of some type of ceremony or "mission" (raiding a bandit tea house for example, again with the proper permission)

also, core book is really bad at explaining all that.

That pretty much sums it up. And I agree, the fluff and nuance of this world is not well represented in the core book. To be fair it wasn't in the first edition either. Supplements have always explained this world much better, but it's these little differences that make it my favorite world to play in.

17 minutes ago, Corg Ironside said:

That pretty much sums it up. And I agree, the fluff and nuance of this world is not well represented in the core book. To be fair it wasn't in the first edition either. Supplements have always explained this world much better, but it's these little differences that make it my favorite world to play in.

i played the card game many years ago (around gold edition, i started with Kuwanan as my champ then it was Kurohito a few months after for most of the time i played, i quit around the time Domotai became champ, i was playing military crane, was one of the first to do so and won some local game store tourneys in canada. because most of my opponent were totally not expecting a military crane. i've always been a power gamer...). but never played the RPG nor read in depth about the setting.

now, 15-20 years later, i'm curious about this rpg/setting again. because we are looking to have another game in parallel to our D&D game (and we're starting to slowly get burnt out on D&D)

Third and fourth edition were a bit better about explaining the setting in the core book, but the motherlode was in the Emerald Empire sourcebooks back then already. The 5th ed version of EE should offer the same.

4 hours ago, Avatar111 said:

thanks both. i'm usually pretty decent at understanding (and optimizing) mechanical rules, but all this narrative stuff is not really explained in the core book, and i've never played previous editions, so i'm clueless about it.

where would a bushi, travelling to another land (ie: a Hida travelling to a Crane land) leave his armor ? hopefully not at home...

IMO L5R's uniqueness and strength is really in it's setting, and that it actively seeks to get away from the 'traveling murderhobo' motif that many fantasy RPGs end up being (though there are always Shadowlands campaigns...). Handing someone a gift as a means of one-upping them, exploring a Shinobi's absolute dedication to duty (contrasted with typical RPG 'rogue' types), bushi that intentionally take off their armor to show respect for the local lord, investigations where the goal is to ensure Imperial peace and stability - and not necessarily or always to punish the guilty party. These are the really cool stand-out features of the game and setting, because they give the players a chance to think differently . L5R has similar "what can you do"s as other fantasy RPGs, but a different set of "what should you do"s. It's sad to hear that the setting info in the current edition isn't letting readers get the full sense. I admit that I kind of took it for granted that it did...FFG did it's newbies a disservice there, but hopefully not an unrecoverable one. Another reason to look forward to Emerald Empire, I guess.