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Krump: After an enemy creature is destroyed fighting Krump, its controller loses 1 AEmber.

Krump is on my opponents side and I Fight against it with my own creature of 6 Power.

Both Krump and my creature are destroyed for dealing 6 damage to each other. Does Krump's effect activate or does it fizzle out because he is no longer in play "after an enemy creature is destroyed"? Would order of operations matter since I am the active player? So if I destroy my creature first I lose the AEmber but wouldn't if I destroy Krump first?

Fighting damage is a simultaneous interaction and Krump dies and his effect ends and does not kick in for simultaneously destroying a creature.

This is another one of those simultaneous-death-trigger scenarios that appear to be rampant at the moment. I suspect either FFG will errata Krump to have the fight keyword, or they'll address the timing of trigger resolutions at some point in the near (or distant?) future.

3 minutes ago, WonderWAAAGH said:

This is another one of those simultaneous-death-trigger scenarios that appear to be rampant at the moment. I suspect either FFG will errata Krump to have the fight keyword, or they'll address the timing of trigger resolutions at some point in the near (or distant?) future.

I don’t think it’s needed. They already addressed simultaneous destruction, which is that all abilities end and do not trigger

"They" addressed it where? If it wasn't needed there wouldn't be so many questions about the exact same thing.

1 minute ago, Poposhka said:

I don’t think it’s needed. They already addressed simultaneous destruction, which is that all abilities end and do not trigger

Ooh, where was this discussed and addressed? Genuinely curious, so I can cite it in further discussions.

2 minutes ago, WonderWAAAGH said:

"They" addressed it where? If it wasn't needed there wouldn't be so many questions about the exact same thing.

Brad Andres discussed gateway to dis and some dis crewture that gives 1 amber per destroyed creature. I can google it for you when I get off mobile.

The conclusiin was that all creatures die including the amber generator and does not give anber

Just now, twinstarbmc said:

Ooh, where was this discussed and addressed? Genuinely curious, so I can cite it in further discussions.

Don't get too excited. FFG has a strong tendency to say one thing, unofficially and by email, and then change the ruling before it makes it into publication.

Just now, WonderWAAAGH said:

Don't get too excited. FFG has a strong tendency to say one thing, unofficially and by email, and then change the ruling before it makes it into publication.

Sure but until then that’s what we got

Just now, WonderWAAAGH said:

Don't get too excited. FFG has a strong tendency to say one thing, unofficially and by email, and then change the ruling before it makes it into publication.

That's fine. All we can do is play the game, and change as the rules change. Pluto isn't a planet any more.

5 minutes ago, Poposhka said:

Sure but until then that’s what we got

Right, and that's something. Just the same, FFG also tends to issue their rulings as ad hoc band-aids that reflect their intention more than actual written rules. As far as necessary goes, it shouldn't be necessary to have to delve onto forums or perform a Google search for a question this ubiquitous.

5 minutes ago, twinstarbmc said:

That's fine. All we can do is play the game, and change as the rules change. Pluto isn't a planet any more.

It never was.

Absolutely agree @WonderWAAAGH

I think this is already sufficently answered within the rulebook:

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If the attacker is not destroyed, all “Fight:” abilities on the attacking
creature then resolve. If either creature in a fight has a constant ability
referencing the end of the fight (example: “after an enemy creature is
destroyed fighting this creature…”), the creature must survive the fight to
resolve the ability. Only the attacker can trigger “Fight:” abilities.

What i am relatively curious about, is why "after x (that involves fighting)" exists, as i see no instance where it would be different from "Fight:".

9 minutes ago, DrPeterEnis said:

I think this is already sufficently answered within the rulebook:

What i am relatively curious about, is why "after x (that involves fighting)" exists, as i see no instance where it would be different from "Fight:".

krumps card text is a constant ability

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( rules v.1.1 , p7)

CONSTANT ABILITIES

If a card has an ability that does not have a boldfaced precursor, the ability is a constant ability that is active so long as the card remains in play and meets all conditions specified by the ability.

• Constant abilities on a card are active even while that card is exhausted.
• Applying the effects of a constant ability is not considered using a card and therefore does not cause the card to exhaust.

in contrast, had Krump said " fight: " it wouldn't trigger if you attack my Krump, only when krump attacks (and survives).

But since it's a constant ability, if you attack my krump and your creature dies, and krump survives, you lose 1A.

Ah yes i see that now. So it indeed makes a difference...

Now i wonder why "Fight" is named rather deceptively and why it couldn't be called "Attack"...

Much obliged.

9 minutes ago, DrPeterEnis said:

Ah yes i see that now. So it indeed makes a difference...

Now i wonder why "Fight" is named rather deceptively and why it couldn't be called "Attack"...

Much obliged.

Attack would imply that it would work simply on attack, rather than after the fight is over.

Then "Fight" would imply on Fight(ing), rather than after the fight beeing over. Also (imo at least) if you didn't know the rulebook "Fight" could be implied to happen for both the attacker and defender.

22 minutes ago, DrPeterEnis said:

Then "Fight" would imply on Fight(ing), rather than after the fight beeing over. Also (imo at least) if you didn't know the rulebook "Fight" could be implied to happen for both the attacker and defender.

In terms of the rules Fight is simply an action. Thus a fight ability only triggers when you take said action with a creature that has said ability. Both creatures are however fighting for meeting the qualifications for any continuous effects.

3 hours ago, DrPeterEnis said:

Then "Fight" would imply on Fight(ing), rather than after the fight beeing over. Also (imo at least) if you didn't know the rulebook "Fight" could be implied to happen for both the attacker and defender.

After an enemy creature is destroyed fighting Krump, its controller loses 1[AE].

So if both krump and other creature are destroyed, they are so simultaneously during the fight, and krump’s ability does not trigger.

If either creature in a fight has a constant ability referencing the end of the fight (example: “after an enemy creature is destroyed fighting this creature…”), the creature must survive the fight to resolve the ability.

Doesn't this ruling on page 10 of the rulebook, under the definition of Fight take care of this:

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If the attacker is not destroyed, all “Fight:” abilities on the attacking creature then resolve. If either creature in a fight has a constant ability referencing the end of the fight (example: “after an enemy creature is destroyed fighting this creature...”), the creature must survive the fight toresolve the ability.

Or am I missing something?

38 minutes ago, debiant said:

Or am I missing something?

No, you're not missing anything, except maybe an innate need to argue for lost causes, which for your sanity and the sanity of those around you is a good thing.

On 11/26/2018 at 4:40 PM, DrPeterEnis said:

Ah yes i see that now. So it indeed makes a difference...

Now i wonder why "Fight" is named rather deceptively and why it couldn't be called "Attack"...

Much obliged.

I can appreciate this, "Fight" and "Fighting" should have been terms, but the keyword should have been Attack to show it only activates on the attack.

Attack:
Before an Attack:

Someone got an email ruling back on this:

Does Krump need to survive the fight to resolve this ability?

Yes. The creature must always survive the fight to resolve both triggered and constant abilities.

Does this work when Krump is attacked?

Yes. Constant abilities are always active and resolve whenever Krump is fighting, not only when attacking.

48 minutes ago, ornithologist said:

Someone got an email ruling back on this:

Does Krump need to survive the fight to resolve this ability?

Yes. The creature must always survive the fight to resolve both triggered and constant abilities.

Does this work when Krump is attacked?

Yes. Constant abilities are always active and resolve whenever Krump is fighting, not only when attacking.

Who is someone and how did you got this answer? It was posted somewhere?