So Bistan allows a turret attack? What if the ship he's on has no turret? Like do Bistan and similar gunners do anything on ships like the ARC-170?

14 minutes ago, Kingsguard said:

So Bistan allows a turret attack? What if the ship he's on has no turret? Like do Bistan and similar gunners do anything on ships like the ARC-170?

Nothing happens.

Hmm, that strikes me as very counter intuitive. I mean not only can Bistan not be used in the U-Wing he was shown crewing in the movie, but he (And the majority of gunners) are utterly useless in any ship with a gunner seat and no turret.

Think I've found my first complaint regarding 2.0

Yup this is a relatively common complaint. Wrt the u wing specifically one of the quick builds has bistan and an ion cannon turret for exactly this reason.

But yeah gunner slots are mostly mediocre without a turret. Scum Han being the major exception.

All of the scum gunners work without a turret (Han, Bossk, Dengar, Greedo, and BT-1), and the 1 imperial gunner works without a turret (Fifth Brother), but Rebels love their turrets so it isn't too surprising that all of their gunners would rely on turrets for their abilities.

That is also why the Heff Tobber quickbuild comes with an ion cannon turret.

Heff Tobber (3 threat): Fire-Control System | Ion Cannon Turret | Bistan | Perceptive Copilot | Pivot Wing

6 hours ago, joeshmoe554 said:

All of the scum gunners work without a turret (Han, Bossk, Dengar, Greedo, and BT-1), and the 1 imperial gunner works without a turret (Fifth Brother), but Rebels love their turrets so it isn't too surprising that all of their gunners would rely on turrets for their abilities.

That is also why the Heff Tobber quickbuild comes with an ion cannon turret.

Heff Tobber (3 threat): Fire-Control System | Ion Cannon Turret | Bistan | Perceptive Copilot | Pivot Wing

Wha? But he can't use a turret...or a gunner for that matter.

31 minutes ago, Kingsguard said:

Wha? But he can't use a turret...or a gunner for that matter.

The Quick Build cards are their own thing and do not follow the usual list building rules.

10 minutes ago, InterceptorMad said:

The Quick Build cards are their own thing and do not follow the usual list building rules.

Ah, that's too bad.

8 hours ago, Kingsguard said:

Hmm, that strikes me as very counter intuitive. I mean not only can Bistan not be used in the U-Wing he was shown crewing in the movie, but he (And the majority of gunners) are utterly useless in any ship with a gunner seat and no turret.

Think I've found my first complaint regarding 2.0

Get the U-Wing into an atmosphere, open up the side doors, set up the M-45 repeating ion blaster rifle (that's basically a heavy infantry weapon), and you're all set. Just don't try it in vacuum conditions.

3 hours ago, Slugrage said:

Get the U-Wing into an atmosphere, open up the side doors, set up the M-45 repeating ion blaster rifle (that's basically a heavy infantry weapon), and you're all set. Just don't try it in vacuum conditions.

If only that applied to X-Wing minis

I think the apps we use should just make sure we use upgrades that are legal to equip, it's up to us to know if it's a good or bad decision.

They do.

Quick build cards use entirely different rules for list building, they are completely separate from the app/points list, and can (and frequently do) have upgrades completely different from those on the app.

On 11/21/2018 at 7:04 PM, Kingsguard said:

Ah, that's too bad.

No, it's not too bad. It's so cool.

I mean, Heff Tober gets an odd thematic build, with Bistan firing an Ion Cannon out the side door, just like in the movie. Lots of folks onhere were trying to get side arcs onto U-Wings back in 1e, as a means to buff them. Didn't happen, probably shouldn't really happen for balance reasons, but a Quickbuild can throw some of that out the door.

I don't see why U-Wing should not have a turret for balance reason ? It is not like turret are dominating the meta right now...

You could have a U-Wing upgrade only that give them turret slot and lock the turret position to the side.

Also, talking about turret, in retrospect, the rotate turret action is really bad for them. It should have been a free thing in the system phase, that way you can't be sure of the position, but at least you don't loose your action for that. Each time I see someone loose their action on that, I feel bad for them considering that action economy is really pricey in V2. Lots of their balancing was done in the void, assuming everything else did not change in the game...

3 hours ago, muribundi said:

I don't see why U-Wing should not have a turret for balance reason ? It is not like turret are dominating the meta right now...

You could have a U-Wing upgrade only that give them turret slot and lock the turret position to the side.

Also, talking about turret, in retrospect, the rotate turret action is really bad for them. It should have been a free thing in the system phase, that way you can't be sure of the position, but at least you don't loose your action for that. Each time I see someone loose their action on that, I feel bad for them considering that action economy is really pricey in V2. Lots of their balancing was done in the void, assuming everything else did not change in the game...

i don't agree at all, especially with upgrades such as veteran turret gunner, bistan, agile gunner, luke gunner and all ships that have a primary double sided turret. letting the players rotate turrets for free in the systems phase would be very bad for the game, unless they upped the costs for turrets and turreted ships by a lot, which would also be a very boring solution.

turrets are just not fun. they never were. especially in 1.0. x-wing is supposed to be a game about dog fighting and positioning. it takes skill to plan maneuvers and position properly, to keep you opponents ships in arc and staying out of theirs. it does not take skill to run away and shoot which ever direction you feel like, so it's not fun. lists that win by running away takes the fun out of the game.

if you want to run turrets, you should pay for it. in as many ways as possible. points, action economy, fire power etc..

i'm actually very worried about obstacles as well. just like dog fighting is an essential concept for x-wing as a game, so is obstacles. dash rendar has the worst designed pilot ability in the game imho.. now they're releasing mining guild ties and it seems the vulture probe droids will also be able to fly up on rocks and use them to their advantage in one way or another. could be fun, but the game will suffer greatly if too many ships can ignore fundamental mechanics of the game without consequences.

You know, I never played Turret, so I could not care less, but they are literally useless even with Gunner that most of the time can't even shoot at same target. Except for rare case like the Han / Dash gunner, when I sit down and see too many turret on the other side, I know I start with an advantage

6 hours ago, muribundi said:

I don't see why U-Wing should not have a turret for balance reason ? It is not like turret are dominating the meta right now...

You could have a U-Wing upgrade only that give them turret slot and lock the turret position to the side.

Also, talking about turret, in retrospect, the rotate turret action is really bad for them. It should have been a free thing in the system phase, that way you can't be sure of the position, but at least you don't loose your action for that. Each time I see someone loose their action on that, I feel bad for them considering that action economy is really pricey in V2. Lots of their balancing was done in the void, assuming everything else did not change in the game...

Because not every ship should have everything.

Maybe a U-Wing with a turret is not imbalanced, but it's still one more thing to worry about. Quickbuild gets the lore edge cases into the game, and they don't have to futz about with the rest.

On 11/23/2018 at 9:20 PM, muribundi said:

You know, I never played Turret, so I could not care less, but they are literally useless even with Gunner that most of the time can't even shoot at same target. Except for rare case like the Han / Dash gunner, when I sit down and see too many turret on the other side, I know I start with an advantage

y-wings with veteran turret gunners are not useless at all, they just have a bad dial. that's not the problem with turrets, though. the problem is things like dash equipped with han flying with roark. it's not a perfect list by a long shot, but it's still broken and not fun at all imho.

hwks with the title and pilot abilities that require arc are also excellent, just because of how easy it is to trigger their abilities with the moldy crow title equipped. it's just boring, since it doesn't require skills to benefit greatly. if they could rotate their turret for free, it would be very uninteresting to fly against. i'm not happy people recognize how good it can be and that they invest in it, since i don't consider it to be fun, even though it's easy enough to kill.

i don't use turrets either, since i consider it to be my responsibility to give my opponents the possibility to have fun and enjoy themselves. i don't think using turrets would let them do that, at least not as much as flying versus ships that actually require me to position properly.

starting with an advantage is not as much fun as starting with balanced and fair match-up either.

On 11/22/2018 at 8:09 PM, theBitterFig said:

No, it's not too bad. It's so cool.

I mean, Heff Tober gets an odd thematic build, with Bistan firing an Ion Cannon out the side door, just like in the movie. Lots of folks onhere were trying to get side arcs onto U-Wings back in 1e, as a means to buff them. Didn't happen, probably shouldn't really happen for balance reasons, but a Quickbuild can throw some of that out the door.

Not like you can actually use the quickbuild in a real game though.

46 minutes ago, Kingsguard said:

Not like you can actually use the quickbuild in a real game though.

You can if you're not stuck in some terrible place where only a 200/6 deathmatch counts as a 'real' game

On 11/23/2018 at 4:38 PM, theBitterFig said:

Because not every ship should have everything.

Well, they decided to do exactly what I suggested but on another ship... And seriously, it make way less sense on the Forteresse then on the U-Wing... but whatever