Question about Horseman of Famine

By KCCMT, in KeyForge

I hope anyone can help me clarify this.

Let's say I have Horseman of Famine in play and there are three more creatures, one with 2 power and the other two with 1 power.

HoF states "Destroy the least powerful creature"

The rules states: A reference to the “least powerful” creature refers to the creature in play with the lowest power. If there are multiple creatures that qualify, each is considered “least powerful.”
If an ability requires the selection of a single least powerful creature, and multiple creatures are tied, the active player chooses one.

So, since HoF requires no kind of selection, how many creatures are destroyed? One (of choice) of the 1-power ones or both of them?

They need to show their templating for something that requires the selection of "a single least/most powerful"

However, this doesn't appear to have any qualifying test whatsoever. I would say that you destroy them both.

From Least Powerful, p10 of the rules:

"If an ability requires the selection of a single least powerful creature , and multiple creatures are tied, the active player chooses one."

So... choose one.

Edited by twinstarbmc
47 minutes ago, twinstarbmc said:

From Least Powerful, p10 of the rules:

"If an ability requires the selection of a single least powerful creature , and multiple creatures are tied, the active player chooses one."

So... choose one.

That is the whole point. "IF an ability requires the selection of a single creature". Does the ability of the Horseman require a selection? No, it says "destroy the least powerful creature", no selection asked.

Aha a question related to my speciality 'English' . You will note the card says 'destroy the least powerful creature'

I find this a give away. This is what we commonly call a 'single' object in that it references one of an item. Other ways that the sentence can be generated include something called 'plural' which references multiple creatures.

Anyway sarcasm aside please carry on trying to make a strong card stronger by mis-reading the card.

Amusingly though if the way you want it to be played 'was' (in madland) the way it was played then if your opponent also had only 5 strength creatures out then playing that would wipe out all your horseman at the same time.

8 minutes ago, Matrim said:

Aha a question related to my speciality 'English' . You will note the card says 'destroy the least powerful creature'

I find this a give away. This is what we commonly call a 'single' object in that it references one of an item. Other ways that the sentence can be generated include something called 'plural' which references multiple creatures.

Anyway sarcasm aside please carry on trying to make a strong card stronger by mis-reading the card.

1 minute ago, Matrim said:

Amusingly though if the way you want it to be played 'was' (in madland) the way it was played then if your opponent also had only 5 strength creatures out then playing that would wipe out all your horseman at the same time.

Dude.... who hurt you?

OP never stated who controls the theoretical other three creatures, just that they're in play. So, I don't think it's very fair to imply they want it to be played one way or another.

It's also kinda legit, since Famine's text isn't an ability per se, but straight text, which the "Least Powerful" rule doesn't make direct reference to. So, if you want to read the rules as strictly as possible, there's an argument to be made that both 1-power creatures would be destroyed. We're just trying to hash it out and figure out what the right way is.

Destroy one create, active player chooses. If you are the only person with creatures, you must destroy one of your own.

Page 10 of the rules clearly states what to do in this instance.

8 minutes ago, twinstarbmc said:

Dude.... who hurt you?

No one, feel free to look up 'sarcasm' in dictionary.

Edited by Matrim
spelt feel - fel.

hey guys, let's keep this forum nice and civil.

30 minutes ago, twinstarbmc said:

It's also kinda legit, since Famine's text isn't an ability per se, but straight text, which the "Least Powerful" rule doesn't make direct reference to. So, if you want to read the rules as strictly as possible, there's an argument to be made that both 1-power creatures would be destroyed. We're just trying to hash it out and figure out what the right way is.

The text indicates "creature". That is singular. One creature. That is why you have to make a choice. And thus the rule on choosing one "least powerful" creature comes into play.

57 minutes ago, dpuck1998 said:

Destroy one create, active player chooses. If you are the only person with creatures, you must destroy one of your own.

Page 10 of the rules clearly states what to do in this instance.

Actually, no. If it stated it clearly I swear I wouldn't be asking ^__^;

a) The text on the card says "the least powerful creature", no plural, fine.

b) The rule says A reference to the “least powerful” creature (again no plural) refers to the creature in play with the lowest power. If there are multiple creatures that qualify, each is considered “least powerful.”

So "the least powerful creature" by the rules actually means "each creature tied for the least power"

c) Then the rules clarify:
If an ability requires the selection of a single least powerful creature, and multiple creatures are tied, the active player chooses one.

d) The ability text does not say anything about selecting, so it does not require to select "a single least powerful creature"

Logic dictates that c) does not apply and that the ability translates (see b)) to "destroy each creature tied for the least power"

As you said, creature is singular. Not much more to say.

send it in as a question. You’ll get a response back that only one creature is chosen.

I will admit you make *some* sense technically, but it’s reaching and looks to be clearly against intent. If yiu want to be sure, ask FFG.

2 hours ago, KCCMT said:

That is the whole point. "IF an ability requires the selection of a single creature". Does the ability of the Horseman require a selection? No, it says "destroy the least powerful creature", no selection asked.

It does require a selection, creature is singular thus if there are more than one you must select one. If it meant for you to destroy all with the least power it would say creatures, plural.

1 hour ago, KCCMT said:

Actually, no. If it stated it clearly I swear I wouldn't be asking ^__^;

a) The text on the card says "the least powerful creature", no plural, fine.

b) The rule says A reference to the “least powerful” creature (again no plural) refers to the creature in play with the lowest power. If there are multiple creatures that qualify, each is considered “least powerful.”

So "the least powerful creature" by the rules actually means "each creature tied for the least power"

c) Then the rules clarify:
If an ability requires the selection of a single least powerful creature, and multiple creatures are tied, the active player chooses one.

d) The ability text does not say anything about selecting, so it does not require to select "a single least powerful creature"

Logic dictates that c) does not apply and that the ability translates (see b)) to "destroy each creature tied for the least power"

The text doesn’t have to say selecting, it states blatantly a singular not plural thus if there are two creatures of least power in play and you only get to destroy one as the text says you must, by logic, select one.

9 hours ago, KCCMT said:

That is the whole point. "IF an ability requires the selection of a single creature". Does the ability of the Horseman require a selection? No, it says "destroy the least powerful creature", no selection asked.

Your hint is the use of the article “the” and the singular “creature”.

It’s telling you to destroy one, don’t overthink it.

Edit: blah, late post

Edited by Derrault