The Kuni shugenja school mentions they use utilitarian names - but they don't seem to be explicitly stated in any Invocations. Does that mean the main name is the utilitarian one?

3 hours ago, Daigotsu Max said:

The Kuni shugenja school mentions they use utilitarian names - but they don't seem to be explicitly stated in any Invocations. Does that mean the main name is the utilitarian one?

this is not clearly explained in the book, like many other things. do whatever you want is probably the best answer

we don't even know of what type is the main name of the invocation.

in example; Bo of Water, it is relatively safe to assume this is the "elemental name". but nothing says so directly.

this is just roleplay stuff, and they left it very loose.

its a bit like some other stuff that irritates me, but that I deal with. like the Yogo school which mentions that they are the "keeper of the black scrolls". and then nowhere else in the book they talk about these scrolls lol (maybe in a technique description but i doubt it). so unless you are a long time l5r player or you use google and i guess make up your own idea of what these scrolls are in the reset storyline... its just a bit confusing. but thats ffg l5r rpg for you, its a bit rough around the edges.

http://l5r.wikia.com/wiki/Black_Scrolls

Pretty sure that hasn't changed.

54 minutes ago, narukagami said:

http://l5r.wikia.com/wiki/Black_Scrolls

Pretty sure that hasn't changed.

Yes, i can use google too

i was merely stating the fact that they mention it in the core book without providing any other details about it.

Honestly, does ffg really assumed that people would just go read about the lore of the world in previous itterations of l5r? When they said they were doing a reboot?

feels a bit lazy to me.

Can we not bash FFG in this thread and just keep it to Invocation names? Thanks

25 minutes ago, Daigotsu Max said:

Can we not bash FFG in this thread and just keep it to Invocation names? Thanks

sure thing.

answer was in the first post then:

this is not clearly explained in the book, do whatever you want is probably the best answer.

your call is as good as any of ours, main name could be the utilitarian one.

i don't see how you cannot blame the book for that though, seeing as it is clearly NOT explained in the book

I've been a bit confused by that as well. Some of the names in the book are obviously not from the Utilitarian tradition. I've been trying to match the Technique names given to the Traditions that exist. I also assumed that the Mantis use Utilitarian as well (put it this way, they aren't using Ancestral, which is the other obvious choice).

I also worked out today that some schools give privileged access to Invocations that their tradition doesn't have a name for. I might be able to share what I've been doing, if interested.

2 minutes ago, Tonbo Karasu said:

I've been a bit confused by that as well. Some of the names in the book are obviously not from the Utilitarian tradition. I've been trying to match the Technique names given to the Traditions that exist. I also assumed that the Mantis use Utilitarian as well (put it this way, they aren't using Ancestral, which is the other obvious choice).

I also worked out today that some schools give privileged access to Invocations that their tradition doesn't have a name for. I might be able to share what I've been doing, if interested.

no name is from the "utilitarian" tradtion, unless they are the main name.

but as i see it, the main name is often a name from a tradition that doesn't have an example in italic below the title.

ie: bo of water

it feels like the elemental tradtion, and elemental tradition is not in the choices in italics.

but honestly, it could have been made a bit clearer... i know its only RP stuff etc, but it would have been nice if they would have put a bit more logic or explanation in it.

19 hours ago, Avatar111 said:

bo  of water

it feels like the elemental tradtion, and elemental tradition is not in the choices in italics.

It does sound elemental, but the name is also as practical as can be... the only way it could feel more “utilitarian” would be to call it “Big Wet Stick” 😛 !!

Or Large Stone Club for Tetsubo of Earth...

But let’s face it, the Kuni only need one spell and its name is also plenty utilitarian: JADE STRIKE !!! They probably invented it, so it’s safe to bet that the most common name it goes by is compatible with the Kuni tradition.

I thought it was pretty obvious that alternate names are listed only when the listed traditions have a different name for an invocation.

It seems like common sense to me.

6 hours ago, Franwax said:

It does sound elemental, but the name is also as practical as can be... the only way it could feel more “utilitarian” would be to call it “Big Wet Stick” 😛 !!

Or Large Stone Club for Tetsubo of Earth...

But let’s face it, the Kuni only need one spell and its name is also plenty utilitarian: JADE STRIKE !!! They probably invented it, so it’s safe to bet that the most common name it goes by is compatible with the Kuni tradition.

Using Jade Strike on a the untainted and unotherworldly, you've just wasted the Kami's time. Plus, it does nothing to them.

So, the Kuni need a second invocation. Tetsubo of Earth is pretty good as a choice. So is Wall of Earth.

7 hours ago, narukagami said:

I thought it was pretty obvious that alternate names are listed only when the listed traditions have a different name for an invocation.

It seems like common sense to me.

I would disagree with this. It specifically says that if your tradition doesn't have a name for something, you may need to find tuition from a different tuition and then give the newly learnt technique an appropriate name for your tradition. There's also some distinctive patternsin the naming which makes some things obviously gaps.

Unsurprisingly, I've done some work with a spreadsheet to try to identify the traditions of the Invocation names. My best guess:

• The Ancestral tradition is least used: only Matsu's Battlecry fit's their naming conventions (and that's actually a re-name of Haze of Battle from the Beta!)
• The Alchemical tradition gets half a dozen, although there are a couple of old favourites fitting in there: False Realm of the Fox Spirit, Jurojin's Balm, Nature's Touch, Sympathetic Energies, Token of Memory, Vapour of Nightmares
• After that, there are seven foreign names, with a couple that go way back to pre-1E: Bind the Shadow, Biting Steel, Dance of Seasons, Hands of the Tides, Path to Inner Peace, Ravenous Swarms, Stride the Waves
• Fortune-based names get into double figures and are quite easy to spot: By the Light of the Lord Moon, Courage of Seven Thunders, Dominion of Suijin, Embrace of Kenro-Ji-Jin, Fukurokujin's Wit, Fury of Osano-Wo, Inari's Blessing, Reflections of P'an Ku, Suijin's Embrace, Wrath of Kaze-no-Kami
• The Utilitarian names are just over a dozen: Armour of Earth, Bo of Water, Cloak of Night, Earthquake, Extinguish, Jade Strike, Katana of Fire, Summon Fog, Tetsubo of Earth, Tomb of Jade, Wall of Earth, Wall of Fire, Yari of Air
• Elementalism accounts for the rest, and over a third of the names, nearly double the next most frequent: Armour of Radiance, Blessed Wind, Breath of the Fire Dragon, Call upon the Wind, Caress of Earth, Earth becomes Sky, Ever-Changing Waves, Grasp of Earth, Grasp of the Air Dragon, Heart of the Water Dragon, Mask of Wind, Power of the Earth Dragon, Rise Air, Rise Earth, Rise Flame, Rise Water, Secrets on the Wind, Strike the Tsunami, Symbol of Earth, Tempest of Air, The Cleansing Fire, The Fires from Within, The Rushing Wave, The Soul's Blade, Wings of the Phoenix

There are some rules of thumb that I used to make this list:

• if it mentions one of the Fortunes, it's 95% likely to be Fortunist.
• if it mentions a dead human's name, it's 95% likely to be Ancestral.
• if there's a 'material component' (balm, vial, vapours etc) in the name, it's 95% likely to be Alchemical.
• if it mentions an element, it could be either Utilitarian or Elementalist. Elementalist names tend to be a bit more flowery: compare 'Wall of Earth' to 'Shape the Earth' and 'Earthquake' to 'Swallowed by the Earth Kami'.
• if it just does what it says, it's 90% likely to be Utilitarian.
• if it fits nowhere else or is otherwise weird, it's probably some weird meishodo thing.

Agree with @Tonbo Karasu While it is not that big of a deal, it does seem like the default names belong to different traditions on a case-by-case basis. If they had included a small bracket after each name, specifying which tradition it comes from that would be really neat. Something to include in reprint/errata