Now, i have seen the movies. some of them multiple times. I also read a bunch of the books....30+ years ago. But I have not read all of the books or any of the newer ones or watched the cartoon series and whatnot so i am "behind the times".

But looking at a different thread about making new ties I had a thought. They have pretty much done all of the official variations. Possibly one or two they have done are not represented here but to me it kind of looked like a bunch of spitball oddball ideas hoping someone would like it so that they could make the claim of "inventing" the tie. Now, I see the possibility of making a few new ones for us to play with here for first order and early prototype versions for the empire (because they could have been in development at that time but not in general use.

But, right now, pretty much everyone that is not part of the rebellion/resistance/empire/first order official army are all just lumped together under scum and villainy. I feel that this could easily be broken down into mini-factions that while they are not a major part of the movies common sense says are part of the "mythos". For example, the cartels. The mining guilds, the other corporations. ****, there are even areas where the empire is only a legend that happened elsewhere. Even in the more recent movie they made a big point of the weapons/ships sellers selling to both sides and how many thought that they were the truly evil ones (I can see them taking this somewhere or I dont think they would have made such a big production of this)

There are enough models already to represent many of these and depending on the different "group" or force being represented, they would naturally have access or would gravitate towards different combinations of ships that we already have and the only thing they would "need" is like a single ship dedicated to them solely for flavor and the rest would be a ready made faction with what we already have. Each "list" could have different strengths and weaknesses depending on the specific rules that apply. A cartel would have more contraband and smaller ships while a mining guild would gravitate towards bombers, freighters and only a few dog fighters. A corporation would have the most expensive and elite ships. All in how the list makers wanted to represent them. With a single wave release of4-5 ships, 4-5 entirely "new" complete factions with all ships could be put on the line. without having to add the extra shelf space or production just selling more of the ones already being produced. Could also draw in many more new players.

Thats just a broad overview but I'm sure you get the point.

Models. Notice that i mentioned many of the ships we already have would be used in different combinations with those lists.

Would unpainted ships be an idea? This I am not sure of because a person could just as easily paint ones already done up. Along witha variety of "official color schemes for the more established set groups and folks being able to "invent" thier own smaller ones ? This last just random thoughts.

Yep, we should do things like separate Bounty Hunters, Mandalorians, Pirates, Trade Guilds, etc. There could be overlap between them in ships (e.g. Boba Fett in Bounty Hunter, Kath Scarlet in Pirates puts the Firespray in two sub factions). Then you could have some "Guns for Hire" to fill out lists with filler ships.

I think Scum should stay as one faction, but having an "Crime Org" card or something like that which encourages playing pilots which are part of that organization would be really cool.

We'd just about need to use the points list to also categorize what pilots, crew, and gunners are considered part of what organizations and then give benefits based on that.

So if you take a Hutt Cartel org card, your Cartel Executioners might be able to roll an extra attack die or something if an enemy ship is in a friendly Hutt Cartel ship's bullseye arc.

The same concept could be expanded to Squadrons for other major factions.

25 minutes ago, CaptainIxidor said:

I think Scum should stay as one faction, but having an "Crime Org" card or something like that which encourages playing pilots which are part of that organization would be really cool.

We'd just about need to use the points list to also categorize what pilots, crew, and gunners are considered part of what organizations and then give benefits based on that.

So if you take a Hutt Cartel org card, your Cartel Executioners might be able to roll an extra attack die or something if an enemy ship is in a friendly Hutt Cartel ship's bullseye arc.

The same concept could be expanded to Squadrons for other major factions.

This. Squadrons and Cartels and Pirate Gangs all need to be a thing, both from a fluff standpoint and from a "listbuilding around a theme" game mechanic.

14 hours ago, EVIL INC said:

Would unpainted ships be an idea?

One of the strong selling points of this game is that the ships come painted. Sure, a lot of folks redo them, but I think most people don't and like it that way.

2 minutes ago, Darth Meanie said:

One of the strong selling points of this game is that the ships come painted. Sure, a lot of folks redo them, but I think most people don't and like it that way.

Agree on this point! One of the reasons I never got into games like 40K was the unpainted minis (cost being the other main factor). I never had enough time to paint, let alone play the game.

I'm glad I'm not alone on this.

The unpainted ships.... I too came from 40k and have models that have literally sat in the boxes for decades unpainted because I just never got around to them. I was just spitballing that out there to see what folks thought. i got a bunch of the prepainted D&D minis from wizkids and loved them for the very reason they are prepainted. But when they did their unpainted ones, I found pretty much the same things but the details were a LOT better because of the stiffer resin used....and they are all sitting there unpainted because I never got around to them yet. lol

I'm one of the ones who can paint better than the prepainted by a mile but time IS an issue and i'd rather just go with whats there. From what I can tell, the prepaint here is just a hot stamp proccess which goes "into" the models rather than sitting on topso painting over it looks like it would be easy. Some folks like a clean canvas though....Overall, I think it would not be worth having the new cardboard printed for packaging...although it would save on the hot stamps and allow a great number to be made in less time....A toss up on costbut the return would be a gamble. A gamble i personally would not make as a designere in this case. Thank you for feedback.

To paint a miniature is an acquired pleasure. To me it is quite a meditation art, that relax myself as no other can. But to many of my fellows it is hard duty, and they can put themselves on it. So they give their model to me to paint, for a nice cash to earn and I am more relaxed and with some bucks in my wallet to buy more miniature to paint. u.u all in all it is a win-win situation, to me.

What would be your ideas for some of these "lists" for factions that already exist and what ships do you think they would have? Ideas for a possible new ship(s) that would thematically fit them?

Pirates need uglies.

9 minutes ago, Hawkstrike said:

Pirates need uglies.

Should be available to Scum and other fringe folk period. And not just the screwed up ones from the X-Wing comics/Novels where the writers had no clue where a friggin TIE/LN's engines were and turned what would have been a really swift interceptor into a drifting coffin... Stackpole can go blow himself for that one.

Scum could be split up into 2 factions: Mandalorian and Black Sun. I do not really like how the Scum faction is a "pirate faction." Pirates used whatever ships they could acquire, be it rebel or imperial.

2 minutes ago, Varyag said:

Scum could be split up into 2 factions: Mandalorian and Black Sun. I do not really like how the Scum faction is a "pirate faction." Pirates used whatever ships they could acquire, be it rebel or imperial.

That's 2 out of the several sub factions in Scum... That only those 2 sprang to your mind is really telling about how screwed up the presentation of Scum and Villainy has been.

Do we really need sub-divisions of factions? I know Scum is a bit broad, but playing a themed list is very doable and actually viable as well. There's also the possibility, if the app ever becomes truly functional, that "variants" could include certain types of lists that force themes for a game. That's really how force sub-division could and should work. Until that time, it's in the players' hands.

17 hours ago, CapitanGuinea said:

To paint a miniature is an acquired pleasure. To me it is quite a meditation art, that relax myself as no other can. But to many of my fellows it is hard duty, and they can put themselves on it. So they give their model to me to paint, for a nice cash to earn and I am more relaxed and with some bucks in my wallet to buy more miniature to paint. u.u all in all it is a win-win situation, to me.

I actually love to paint minis. That's why I also have a huge box of white reaper bones minis that I full intended to paint for D&D sessions. But the time is a real constraint. Budget is a separate constraint, which has kept me from sending certain minis off for commissions.

6 minutes ago, Bad Idea Comics said:

Do we really need sub-divisions of factions? I know Scum is a bit broad, but playing a themed list is very doable and actually viable as well. There's also the possibility, if the app ever becomes truly functional, that "variants" could include certain types of lists that force themes for a game. That's really how force sub-division could and should work. Until that time, it's in the players' hands.

Mandalorian designs in Scum: Lancer, Fang, Scyk and Kimogila. Most likely Mandalorian themed list: Boba, + 2 Fangs (one named, one generic or 2 named or generic depending on upgrades taken).

Black Sun design in Scum: Lancer (was a co-op design with the Mandalorians) and Kihraxz… Mull that one, though the Z-95 is painted as a Black Sun, not an issue, they were very common.

Hutts: No designs of their own in 2.0 (C-ROC has a heavy Ubrikkan aesthetic to its body mods). Used what ever they could buy when the need arose (Legends wise Mandal Motors was a primary supplier, thus the Huttish theme of the Scyk and Kimogila paint scheme in game).

Pirates: Kath's Binarye have the Marauder Firespray and Z-95. Drea Renthal is in but heck if I know what her crew ran...

38 minutes ago, Hiemfire said:

Mandalorian designs in Scum: Lancer, Fang, Scyk and Kimogila. Most likely Mandalorian themed list: Boba, + 2 Fangs (one named, one generic or 2 named or generic depending on upgrades taken).

Black Sun design in Scum: Lancer (was a co-op design with the Mandalorians) and Kihraxz… Mull that one, though the Z-95 is painted as a Black Sun, not an issue, they were very common.

Hutts: No designs of their own in 2.0 (C-ROC has a heavy Ubrikkan aesthetic to its body mods). Used what ever they could buy when the need arose (Legends wise Mandal Motors was a primary supplier, thus the Huttish theme of the Scyk and Kimogila paint scheme in game).

Pirates: Kath's Binarye have the Marauder Firespray and Z-95. Drea Renthal is in but heck if I know what her crew ran...

I feel like you could go even more specific with "variant" factions:

Concord Dawn: Fangs and the Gauntlet Fighter when we get it (I hope FFG is planning on this ship - it's available in Armada with the Chimera expansion and it was used several times in the Clone Wars series).

Bounty Hunters: Only named bounty hunters

Themed lists like these are feasible and the app could be used to create viable combinations to get certain feels across. It's what I thought they meant by variant play. Obviously, we wouldn't get something like this in the app for, like, ever. Or possibly never ( I really don't have a lot of faith in the FFG app developers).

I personally like flying Mandalorian ships together or ships with similar paint jobs, just for my own themes. I like my squads to look cool. LOL.

3 minutes ago, Bad Idea Comics said:

Bounty   Hunters: Only named boun  ty hunters  

These would be 2-3 ship only lists. All of the named bounty hunters are quite costly, aside from 4-LOM and Zuccuss. But those two are merely on the bottom of the pricing for Bounty Hunters.

Cross factions can make them a faction in their own rights. IF all Bounty Hunters (and only bounty hunters) had Imperial Pilot options as well as Scum that would be a sub group that acts in a way as its own political ( I'm talking within Star Wars politics not in real politics oh wait I just made a holiday thread that turned all about star wars politics... ) faction orientation.

2 hours ago, Bad Idea Comics said:

Do we really need sub-divisions of factions?

As hard categories like the current full factions? No. But pilots could be given a sub-identity very easily. Luke Skywalker is also Red 5. Kath Scarlet is a pirate. Boba Fett is a Bounty Hunter.

Quote

I know Scum is a bit broad, but playing a themed list is very doable and actually viable as well. There's also the possibility, if the app ever becomes truly functional, that "variants" could include certain types of lists that force themes for a game. That's really how force sub-division could and should work.

True, but the design of the game could make it even more of an option. Since the game finally has a tiny "flavor text" box, it would be very easy to design cards that use that as a resource. "If a friendly pirate is at R1. . ."

Of course, they have already screwed that up, since Soontir Fel should be labeled Saber 1, not Most Coolest Ace You'd Every Want to Get Acey With.

Quote

Until that time, it's in the players' hands.

As are so many things that could make this game more that Sport Wing.

1 hour ago, Darth Meanie said:

As hard categories like the current full factions? No. But pilots could be given a sub-identity very easily. Luke Skywalker is also Red 5. Kath Scarlet is a pirate. Boba Fett is a Bounty Hunter.

True, but the design of the game could make it even more of an option. Since the game finally has a tiny "flavor text" box, it would be very easy to design cards that use that as a resource. "If a friendly pirate is at R1. . ."

Of course, they have already screwed that up, since Soontir Fel should be labeled Saber 1, not Most Coolest Ace You'd Every Want to Get Acey With.

As are so many things that could make this game more that Sport Wing.

You're not wrong, but there's only so much control I like forced upon me in a game. Sport Wing is fine as Sport Wing. You and I both agree that what we really need is a scenario driven game with some Huge ships thrown into the mix and droves of fighters. THAT is the the perfect excuse to have properly themed forces. A Tansari Point Station scenario with Serissu vs Talonbane Cobra and their accompaniment would truly be EPIC. The small games of X-wing have only so much flexibility. They're fine for what they are, but you start getting into the detail vs complexity problem with subdivisions.

26 minutes ago, Bad Idea Comics said:

You're not wrong, but there's only so much control I like forced upon me in a game. Sport Wing is fine as Sport Wing. You and I both agree that what we really need is a scenario driven game with some Huge ships thrown into the mix and droves of fighters. THAT is the the perfect excuse to have properly themed forces. A Tansari Point Station scenario with Serissu vs Talonbane Cobra and their accompaniment would truly be EPIC. The small games of X-wing have only so much flexibility. They're fine for what they are, but you start getting into the detail vs complexity problem with subdivisions.

Well, my idea would not be forcing you to do anything.

If Fel actually said "Saber 1," you could have an upgrade card the referenced "Saber Squadron Pilots." If you care, you can equip that upgrade to your pilots, make sure they all belong to the same unit, and fly "Saber Squadron." If not, it doesn't matter. Or maybe you had 3 Saber pilots and then a non-Saber that does not benefit from the upgrade.

I mean, it's just like this guy:

The fact that he exists doesn't mean you have to play goblin-only decks, and he does not even have to be in a deck because it has goblins. But if you want to build a Goblin Deck, he's the cat's meow.

Allowing themes is great. But allow those themes. So much is left out. What of the cartels who want to try to run under the radar by flying imperial or rebel ships? The corporations that have the money to just buy off imperials? ****, look at the more recent movies where they specifically make a huge point that the first order and resistance buy their ships off of the scum (and heavily imply that that is nothing new and it has been going on all along). This could be done by making different sub=lists or it can be done by allowing "allies" and just calling them part of the organization. As -is just trying to theme with whats there.... very limited and not truly representative.

You could take this even further and allow cross-faction factions. For example, I think that CorSec(Corellian Security) used Ties and Xwings. So make a CorSec Squadron card that allows a mix of the two and gives some advantages and some disadvantages so that they play different than their original iterations. It would be a cool way to get new color schemes for old ships(Coran Horn's Green Xwing) and new pilots that could fly in the new faction only or in the parent faction. It could be awesome!