1 hour ago, GuacCousteau said:

Maybe it's too direct a nerf to say that Collision Detector should be more expensive only on ships that have the cloak action, but that does feel like the breaking point. The pre-movement 2 speed barrel roll onto a rock is nuts, and it's so obviously worth more than Collision Detector on anything with a normal barrel roll.

I wish Collision Detector required spending a charge to get the boost/barrel roll perk, but that would require actual errata, not simply point adjustements.

1 hour ago, Okapi said:

I don't think we have much to go on when trying to estime how much of an update this will be. Are they going to make fine adjustments to nearly every ship, or just fairly big ones to a few pilots?

Personally, I think they'll likely raise costs on stuff that's too potent, but I don't expect to see many point reductions on craft until they're officially, fully released.

6 minutes ago, SOTL said:

Maybe he is. But the problem is Han gunner not the reroll or the gunner slot. Put the points up where they need to go up, don't piss around meddling with only solving half the problem and leave Han undercosted on Kavil.

I don't disagree with you on this, nor do I agree with him. My statement was also "further" increase the cost as in boosting Han to being expensive to take on any platform in addition to increasing the cost of the Marauder title. Cgriffith is someone who loves aces, any ship or ability that is making his pilots' lives ****, or at a minimum harder than he feels it should be, is something he wants to see an increase in the cost of, usually dramatically. IE the 9+ points increase in Gun Runners that he's called for.

I always fly my Ghost, I definitely don't think it's good though. But pretty darn sure it won't get a points adjustment down. Hahaha

Hey it's a long answer to a long question.

I think Y-Wings and X-Wings will stay the same cost because they are thematic and they, along with TIE Fighters/Bombers/Interceptors should be the standard all other ships are based on.

9 minutes ago, Hiemfire said:

I don't disagree with you on this, nor do I agree with him. My statement was also "further" increase the cost as in boosting Han to being expensive to take on any platform in addition to increasing the cost of the Marauder title. Cgriffith is someone who loves aces, any ship or ability that is making his pilots' lives ****, or at a minimum harder than he feels it should be, is something he wants to see an increase in the cost of, usually dramatically. IE the 9+ points increase in Gun Runners that he's called for.

6-10 on the Gunrunners but you are correct in the assertion. As to what I fly my current list Seyn, Echo (Cloak & Choke) Redline (Taj Sim, Proton Bombs, Proton Torps) and Bomber (which I expect by January will not be able to fly in a 200 point list) I think it’ll be around 225-235.

I haven’t flown a dedicated “ace list” since mid-September. (My favorite 1.0 List was Rey/Poe hardly ace category)

What we should acknowledge is that even though there are some noticeable candidates for increase (the usual suspects everyone is talking about) nothing screams broken. It is a testimony to the conservative approach overall and the restraint FFG has done in getting 90 percent of the ships right for expanded edition. The outliers aren't 1.0 broken.

What we can all universally also agree on is that many iconic ships and pilots are seeing prominent play and need to not be nerfed back into obscurity.

Maybe the biggest conundrum facing the game right now in these early days is large bases. Large bases might be fixed with point adjustments. But they might not. The half point rule for all ships has hurt their potential far more than their individual point costs. It simply is a better strategy currently to spread potential MOV bleed around. With the new all base half rule and torps/barrage carriers so prevalent, I fear the VCX might never see legitimate competitive play again. It's a sensitive tipping point. One precariously and poorly planned point reduction swing with Dash Rendar or an ill advised crew will eliminate many prospective ships from the meta in one swath. Base swarms apart from Drea Swarm and Sloane already aren't having as much of an impact. When/If large ships fully return, it might get worse.

The Pandora's box in all of this is the prequel factions. Everything about them screams further death to large base ships. Throw in the T-70 gang and it gets worse. While scum have it okay now, they're the faction that's going to get hit the hardest overall with loss of viable ship count as a result of having so many large bases. Obviously scum falcon was point costed highly favorable so as to sell models and is out there for now, but YV-666s, Lancers and Jumpmasters aren't. Lot of dust collecting there.....

1 minute ago, Cloaker said:

The Pandora's box in all of this is the prequel factions. Everything about them screams further death to large base ships.

So you're of the opinion that the Sith Infiltrator is DOA then? It is a large base.

Just now, Hiemfire said:

So you're of the opinion that the Sith Infiltrator is DOA then? It is a large base.

Not at all. It'll be priced to see play. It's a lynchpin of a new faction that needs sales to launch favorably.

Generic inquisitor.

Probably my top ship right now but I doubt they will get nerfed as no one else seems to like them.

My opponents sure don't like them

5 minutes ago, Cloaker said:

What we can all universally also agree on is that many iconic ships and pilots are seeing prominent play and need to not be nerfed back into obscurity.

Aw, can't we have just a little nerfing back into obscurity?

The two lists I fly most:

• 2x Delta Squadron Pilot TIE Defender, Omicron Group Pilot (Emperor Palpatine)
• Fenn Rau (Outmaneuver), Old Terroch (Fearless), Kad Solus (Elusive)

Are these headed towards points increases? I have no idea.

I feel like TIE Defenders are really strong. Token Stacking is going away in 2nd Edition, they told us. Deltas laugh when they hear it. Defenders are BETTER than 1e. An extra Shield, a Boost action, blue 1-banks, Full Throttle being better than post-Errata TIE/x7. Do I want them to have a price increase? Not really, they're a favorite ship of mine. If they went up 2 points, I don't think that'd be wrong, though. But at the same time, I know a lot of folks would be puzzled at that. Maybe they're flying too many upgrades on the named ones.

I find the new Lambda shuttle to be amazing. The rear arc and white coordinate are incredibly strong. Reinforce is a good tool to have. Does it need a price increase? I haven't lost yet with Delta/Delta/OGP. But they aren't top-tables-large-tournaments. So is there space for a points increase for something like a TIE Defender which is not the key meta ship, but kind of skewed at a local store level? The kind of thing which might be a NPE for new players to grind against, but not the scourge of premier events.

Fangs... I dunno. I kinda think Fangs are fine where they are. They can still die horribly to bad dice luck if you land your ship wrong.

1 hour ago, SOTL said:

Actually I'll put one in: Boba Fett. That guy is fine, it's Han Gunner who needs to go up.

I feel like Boba Fett should have only been able to reroll a maximum of 1 die, no matter how many ships are at Range 1. That seems like a Two-Point-Oh-ish change, to put a cap on something which didn't have a cap. But they didn't go that direction, it's almost surely not worth an errata, and I'd agree that Boba-qua-Boba is probably fine. Han Gunner is clearly too cheap. Marauder? Maybe a point or two (like, if all the Firespray titles were the same 5 points as Slave One, I don't think that's bad).

But mostly it's Han.

3 hours ago, Biophysical said:

What are some other ships that seem solid for their points? Good enough to hang with the top tier if you play them well, but ships that require consistent good decisions to get good results from them. I.e., ships that probably aren't cruising for a points bump come January.

Vynder.

He was good in 1.0 but overcosted, running him 35-40 range. Now in 2.0 you get him with Proton Torps, adv slam, fcs, title for 56pts (28pts in 1.0 terms) then add a talent of your choice. He is overlooked right now cause redline with torps + seismics is 56pts. I think if Redline gets increased, Vynder could see an uptick in table time. Ive been running Vynder and Redline with super vader and it feels like Vader HLC Boats from 1.0. Vynder may be PS4, but the slam allows him to break the range game on first engagement. With redline being enemy #1, and then they focus on Vader, Ive been getting 3 or 4 torps off with Vynder. Reload + fire, reload + fire. 4 dice attacks over and over. Just keep that lock on the enemy and reroll with FCS. Also, Vynder just rips apart anything lower initiative with that slam.

56 minutes ago, Cloaker said:

What we should acknowledge is that even though there are some noticeable candidates for increase (the usual suspects everyone is talking about) nothing screams broken. It is a testimony to the conservative approach overall and the restraint FFG has done in getting 90 percent of the ships right for expanded edition. The outliers aren't 1.0 broken.

What we can all universally also agree on is that many iconic ships and pilots are seeing prominent play and need to not be nerfed back into obscurity.

Maybe the biggest conundrum facing the game right now in these early days is large bases. Large bases might be fixed with point adjustments. But they might not. The half point rule for all ships has hurt their potential far more than their individual point costs. It simply is a better strategy currently to spread potential MOV bleed around. With the new all base half rule and torps/barrage carriers so prevalent, I fear the VCX might never see legitimate competitive play again. It's a sensitive tipping point. One precariously and poorly planned point reduction swing with Dash Rendar or an ill advised crew will eliminate many prospective ships from the meta in one swath. Base swarms apart from Drea Swarm and Sloane already aren't having as much of an impact. When/If large ships fully return, it might get worse.

The Pandora's box in all of this is the prequel factions. Everything about them screams further death to large base ships. Throw in the T-70 gang and it gets worse. While scum have it okay now, they're the faction that's going to get hit the hardest overall with loss of viable ship count as a result of having so many large bases. Obviously scum falcon was point costed highly favorable so as to sell models and is out there for now, but YV-666s, Lancers and Jumpmasters aren't. Lot of dust collecting there.....

You're kidding, right? There's about a dozen that are DRASTICALLY wrong and breaking competitive play.

2 hours ago, thespaceinvader said:

Not me using it, but the elite generic Phantom needs at least one extra point, or Juke does.

4 Sigmas with Juke is a list I'm shocked has been so slow catching on it's really, really strong.

I was coming in to say this. Been flying a lot of the Imdaar naked and it seems really well balanced for the points. I hope they dont change. I think Juke is the real issue here as it's always best on higher init pilots and pairs so well with token stacking.

If anything I'd like to see Juke repointed to 1 + Pilot Init. That would give Whisper pause to run it and make it a hair more viable for PS 1-2 ships.

Rexler also seems to be right on the money to me.

2 hours ago, thespaceinvader said:

Not me using it, but the elite generic Phantom needs at least one extra point, or Juke does.

4 Sigmas with Juke is a list I'm shocked has been so slow catching on it's really, really strong.

Double post...

29 minutes ago, SOTL said:

You're kidding, right? There's about a dozen that are DRASTICALLY wrong and breaking competitive play.

In my 80 some odd games of 2.0 I'm seeing more than ever, piloting and variance matter. I've beaten nearly every major 2.0 staple against good players at least twice with 5CMs. Their biggest struggle? Rebels, Dash and Wedge, strangely enough. But the 5CMs are fun and tanky. They peel a ship off the board a turn almost. They've 1 to 2 turn annihilated predictably blue maneuver Bobas, covered Whisper in a minimum 9 attack dice blanket that keeps her warm with hits, laughed off barrage bombers by outmaneuvering them, hunted Sloane and Drea swarms down like rabid dogs, boxed Vader neatly into oblivion, and survived even three T-65 torpedo spam lists repeatedly to show them the overkill cost of their upgrades. A 7 ship quad list would wreck the 5CMs day though.

There isn't any list out in 2.0 that can't be humbled by good flying and average dice.

Couldn't agree more. Sure, adjustments are needed here and there, but all in all, X-Wing has never been a better game than it is right now.

34 minutes ago, SOTL said:

You're kidding, right? There's about a dozen that are DRASTICALLY wrong and breaking competitive play.

Also my friend, I'd argue it's upgrades, and not ships, that are really the puzzle piece to moderate. Juke, Brockets, protorps, Vader crew, Scum Han crew and trick shot in particular , which are kind of "lazy upgrades" that people are plugging in to maximize risk management. IMHO, Juke should work off the sliding cost scale for agility. Trick Shot for any ship capable of a secondary arc the should be 3 points. Switch TIE Phantoms and Jumpmaster crew to gunner slots, bringing one down reasonably and the other up.

Unrelated side note; I notice you're not posting blogs as much recently. I hope you return. I do so greatly enjoy your articles and analysis. I also hope you're not frustrated with the game right now. We need veterans like you providing validated commentary to keep perspectives open.

1 hour ago, Icelom said:

Generic inquisitor.

Probably my top ship right now but I doubt they will get nerfed as no one else seems to like them.

My opponents sure don't like them

whats your build for the generic inq? I've been thinking about this ship but haven't put it on the table for 2.0 yet

27 minutes ago, Cloaker said:

Trick Shot for any ship capable of a secondary arc the should be 3 points.

That sounds reasonable. Intentionally setting up a Trick Shot through your front arc has a risk involved, as you could end up flying through the obstacle or else at least limiting your maneuver next turn. For a mobile or rear arc, there's much less risk, so a cost increase makes sense.

1 hour ago, Cloaker said:

Switch TIE Phantoms and Jumpmaster crew to gunner slots, bringing one down reasonably and the other up.

No, just no. Have you actually looked at what gunner options the imperials have? There are only 4 out which 2 only work with mobile arc and one with bombs so that leaves a single option (Fifth Brother). You might as well remove the slot altogether instead.

8 minutes ago, mcgreag said:

No, just no. Have you actually looked at what gunner options the imperials have? There are only 4 out which 2 only work with mobile arc and one with bombs so that leaves a single option (Fifth Brother). You might as well remove the slot altogether instead.

Facts.

2 hours ago, Cloaker said:

In my 80 some odd games of 2.0 I'm seeing more than ever, piloting and variance matter. I've beaten nearly every major 2.0 staple against good players at least twice with 5CMs. Their biggest struggle? Rebels, Dash and Wedge, strangely enough. But the 5CMs are fun and tanky. They peel a ship off the board a turn almost. They've 1 to 2 turn annihilated predictably blue maneuver Bobas, covered Whisper in a minimum 9 attack dice blanket that keeps her warm with hits, laughed off barrage bombers by outmaneuvering them, hunted Sloane and Drea swarms down like rabid dogs, boxed Vader neatly into oblivion, and survived even three T-65 torpedo spam lists repeatedly to show them the overkill cost of their upgrades. A 7 ship quad list would wreck the 5CMs day though.

There isn't any list out in 2.0 that can't be humbled by good flying and average dice.

I'm glad to hear this. It's basically been my experience with 4 Sabers + Gideon Hask. I don't have as many reps as it sounds like you do, but "5 attacks that matter" definitely seems like it cares less about the powerhouses than a lot of lists do.

Plus, the crew slot is nowhere near the problem with Phantoms.

2 hours ago, Cloaker said:

In my 80 some odd games of 2.0 I'm seeing more than ever, piloting and variance matter. I've beaten nearly every major 2.0 staple against good players at least twice with 5CMs. Their biggest struggle? Rebels, Dash and Wedge, strangely enough. But the 5CMs are fun and tanky. They peel a ship off the board a turn almost. They've 1 to 2 turn annihilated predictably blue maneuver Bobas, covered Whisper in a minimum 9 attack dice blanket that keeps her warm with hits, laughed off barrage bombers by outmaneuvering them, hunted Sloane and Drea swarms down like rabid dogs, boxed Vader neatly into oblivion, and survived even three T-65 torpedo spam lists repeatedly to show them the overkill cost of their upgrades. A 7 ship quad list would wreck the 5CMs day though.

There isn't any list out in 2.0 that can't be humbled by good flying and average dice.

What are 5CMs?

2 minutes ago, JJ48 said:

What are 5CMs?

5 Cartel Marauders. 5 of the lowest initiative Kihraxzs.