Hello,

I got this awesome Niffle Ape deck with a niffle queen and 5 niffle apes, as well as a Troup Call. If I have 5 niffle apes in play, can I reap with them, then cast troup call and recast them in the same turn? I understand that I would not be able to cast them more than 6 times, but I was wondering if the use was counted separately

52 minutes ago, Dave Cordeiro said:

If I have 5 niffle apes in play, can I reap with them, then cast troup call and recast them in the same turn?

Yes you can, since these are different copies of niffle ape.

I stand corrected

oh and by the way: Awesome set of untamed cards. I am jealous

No you cannot.

'Occasionally, a situation may emerge in which, through a combination of abilities, the same card may be played or used repeatedly during the same turn. A player cannot play and/or use the same card and/or other copies of that card (by title) more than six times during a given turn'

I bolded the relevant section as you already quoted the correct bit..

Quote

A player cannot play and/or use the same card and/or other copies of that card (by title) more than six times during a given turn.

I think the use of "and/or" between "play" and "use" as well as between "same" and "other copies" contradicts what you say, Raahk. Each time you play OR use any card entitled "Niffle Ape" counts toward the limit of six.

Yeah I totally get that the 5 copies are all counted together, my question was about "A player cannot play and/or use the same card"
Are use and cast counted in the same bucket, or is it 6 uses and 6 casts. The issue I'm having is that "and" and "or" could mean one vs the other in this scenario.

52 minutes ago, Dave Cordeiro said:

If I have 5 niffle apes in play, can I reap with them, then cast troup call and recast them in the same turn?

Let's unpack this one, just for clarity in case others come looking for rules guidance on this. With 5 copies of "Niffle Ape" on the Battle Line, you have "Nature's Call" and "Troop Call" in hand.

1) You reap with each of your "Niffle Ape" cards on the Battle Line (+5 Aember, but now "Niffle Ape" has been used 5 times out of a possible 6 plays/uses).

2) You play "Nature's Call", which can put up to 3 "Niffle Ape" cards back into your hand. This does NOT constitute as use of a "Niffle Ape" card; it was just moving the cards as an effect of using another card ("Nature's Call" in this case).

3) You could play one of the "Niffle Ape" cards that is currently in your hand. This is your 6th and final use/play of a "Niffle Ape" card for this turn. The other 4 "Niffle Ape" cards would have to stay in your hand.

4) In the situation described above, none of your "Niffle Ape" cards are in the discard pile, so "Troop Call" isn't necessary to make this work. In the situation described above, you also have the option to use "Troop Call" which lets you put them back into your hand from either the discard pile or in play. [Edited to correct my mistaken reading. Thank Matrim!]

I'm also a bit hazy on the rule of six.

Does it apply to Library Access? So if I play a 7th card after LA, I no longer get to use its effect to draw cards? That's how I interpret it but not sure if that is correct.

Robert. good explantion except that your point 4 is incorrect in that Troop Call states 'from your discard pile AND from play' so it would collect all six.

You still get lots of nice combos though. You could attack with all 6 on suicide attacks then troop call them back the next turn (so you fill your hand and potentially get more untamed) before playing them out for aember.

1 minute ago, Ghost Dancer said:

I'm also a bit hazy on the rule of six.

Does it apply to Library Access? So if I play a 7th card after LA, I no longer get to use its effect to draw cards? That's how I interpret it but not sure if that is correct.

Please post the text so we can see.

3 minutes ago, RobertK said:

Please post the text so we can see. 

Something along the lines of:"For the remainder of your turn: Each time you play a card, you draw a card"

Hmm not a constant ability it has a play ability. Since you 'play' the card that is when it is used. So I would say that the rule of 6 does not count (unless you play 7 copies of library access)

Just for reference, under Card Abilities, Constant Abilities, p7:

Quote

Applying the effects of a constant ability is not considered using a card and therefore does not cause the card to exhaust.

Looks to me it's as Matrim says; Rule of Six does not apply.

Yeah though the line or so above it states a constant ability is one which does not have a bold word and Library Access has Play so it is not a constant ability. But Bait and Switch also has the Play and it covered in depth in the rules as avoiding the rule of 6

1 minute ago, Matrim said:

Yeah though the line or so above it states a constant ability is one which does not have a bold word and Library Access has Play so it is not a constant ability. But Bait and Switch also has the Play and it covered in depth in the rules as avoiding the rule of 6

You only used (Played) the card once in that instance. It would be the same as using Troop Call and having 7+ cards return to your hand.

5 hours ago, Dave Cordeiro said:

Hello,

I got this awesome Niffle Ape deck with a niffle queen and 5 niffle apes, as well as a Troup Call. If I have 5 niffle apes in play, can I reap with them, then cast troup call and recast them in the same turn? I understand that I would not be able to cast them more than 6 times, but I was wondering if the use was counted separately

THE RULE OF SIX

Occasionally, a situation may emerge in which, through a combination

of abilities, the same card may be played or used repeatedly during the

same turn. A player cannot play and/or use the same card and/or other

copies of that card (by title) more than

six times

during a given turn.

Lol thats the nuts. Tell you got a Witch of the Hunt and a Witch of the Eye as your other Untamed cards.

8 minutes ago, Hyperjayman said:

Lol thats the nuts. Tell you got a Witch of the Hunt and a Witch of the Eye as your other Untamed cards.

Save the pack and ritual of balance. I'm cool with the ritual too since this deck also has double carlo https://www.keyforgegame.com/deck-details/33b829ad-70f3-4c6b-b933-a7fa87068630

Thanks for the replies, that helps clear it up.

On 11/19/2018 at 8:35 AM, Matrim said:

Yeah though the line or so above it states a constant ability is one which does not have a bold word and Library Access has Play so it is not a constant ability. But Bait and Switch also has the Play and it covered in depth in the rules as avoiding the rule of 6

The reasoning is the "play" or "use" in this case is using the card, the trigger effect that remains however (ie drawing everytime you play another card) is not counted as another use but merely a trigger. So you couldn't say play "bait and switch" or "library access" more than six times in a turn if something kept bouncing it or copies of it back into your hand somehow but it's effect would trigger as many times as the trigger condition was met without being limited by the rule of six.