I just realized that means I can use my M;tG spin-down counters to track aember, since it’s not technically a die.

Given how they specify the what sort of tokens you can use, I would run anything besides the tokens from the core box by the to.

@WonderWAAAGH MtG spindowns are still dice. There horrible for probability, but the still function the same. The can get knocked around. They were very clear about that in videos.

That’s your definition. No official KeyForge document defines dice.

1 hour ago, WonderWAAAGH said:

That’s your definition. No official KeyForge document defines dice.

Given all the other posts I've read from you, you come across as a person who has nothing better to do than nit pick rules and make things more complicated than they need to be. That, and you really do need to stop trying to force MtG nonse upon this game. Go play that game if that's what you like so much.

15 minutes ago, sabrjay said:

Given all the other posts I've read from you, you come across as a person who has nothing better to do than nit pick rules and make things more complicated than they need to be. That, and you really do need to stop trying to force MtG nonse upon this game. Go play that game if that's what you like so much.

You do you and I’ll do me, thanks.

@WonderWAAAGH You do you in casual booboo. But in official spindowns are a no.

3 minutes ago, Hyperjayman said:

@WonderWAAAGH You do you in casual booboo. But in official spindowns are a no.

When a TO says so, sure.

15 minutes ago, WonderWAAAGH said:

When a TO says so, sure.

No, the Marshal. TO only in cases where they did not appoint a Marshal and are forced to take on the role of Marshal themselves..

if you’re gonna ruleslawyer, at least do it right.

'These aren't dice, they are multi-sided numbered tokens!'

Tbh the dice restriction for everything but keys and Æmber (because of the capture mechanics etc.) is stupid, it is just as easy to fudge over tokens as it is to change dice. Now a restriction to only D6 (maybe D10) or lower for stability I understand, if someone were to use a D20 I wouldn't trust that to remain precise.

9 hours ago, WonderWAAAGH said:

That’s your definition. No official KeyForge document defines dice.

Yea, and since they only write a lot about cards in the manual, but don't have any official definition of "card" in there I suppose I could put a sandwich into my archive?

Still a stupid rule. I get not using it for amber, but dmg or power? It's a stupid rule.

6 hours ago, Admiral Deathrain said:

'These aren't dice, they are multi-sided numbered tokens!'

Tbh the dice restriction for everything but keys and Æmber (because of the capture mechanics etc.) is stupid, it is just as easy to fudge over tokens as it is to change dice. Now a restriction to only D6 (maybe D10) or lower for stability I understand, if someone were to use a D20 I wouldn't trust that to remain precise.

Eh not really. Tokens look different, dice don’t. If a creature has dice on it could be damage, amber or power, with tokens there’s at least a clear difference. Also you can’t “accidentally” bump more tokens onto a higher number.

I never had any intention of using dice, don't like to use dice, make a custom laser cut token set, and even I think disallowing dice is silly. Not as silly as disallowing clear sleeves in a game where one of main marketing points is that each deck has unique card backs, but still pretty silly. 😛

1 hour ago, TwitchyBait said:

Eh not really. Tokens look different, dice don’t. If a creature has dice on it could be damage, amber or power, with tokens there’s at least a clear difference. Also you can’t “accidentally” bump more tokens onto a higher number.

Dice can have different colours, too, and dice used should have different colours (i.e. red for damage, blue for power). Bumping a D6 requires a good amount of effort, if you can do that you can also 'accidentally' pick up a token too much/little or fudge them between cards. Now I am not advocating for dice everywhere, specifically Æmber should be tracked with tokens due to the number of ways (steal, capture, other cards) cards interact with single Æmber tokens. Keys also should be uniform for all players. But with reasonable regulation, which is easily implemented, there is no reason dice shouldn't be allowed. In fact doing so would make it easier for new players to find material without getting a core set, which for many isn't a desirable product because of the price you're paying for decks that don't really give you the experience you are looking for - after all you want your experience to be unique!

5 hours ago, Shimaaji said:

Yea, and since they only write a lot about cards in the manual, but don't have any official definition of "card" in there I suppose I could put a sandwich into my archive?

A spin-down counter isn’t a die, and a sandwich isn’t a card.

14 minutes ago, WonderWAAAGH said:

A spin-down counter isn’t a die, and a sandwich isn’t a card.

A polyhedron with numbered faces then? That is the common understanding of a die. Calling it a spin-down counter doesn't change what it is.

21 minutes ago, WonderWAAAGH said:

A spin-down counter isn’t a die, and a sandwich isn’t a card.

A spin-down is shaped exactly like a D20. A spin-down rolls exactly like a D20. It it has exatly the numbers 1 through 20 on it. The participants on Geek & Sundry-Spellslingers roll it to determine who goes first. How much of a stubborn moron do you have to be to keep insisting it isn’t a die?

7 minutes ago, Admiral Deathrain said:

Dice can have different colours, too, and dice used should have different colours (i.e. red for damage, blue for power). Bumping a D6 requires a good amount of effort, if you can do that you can also 'accidentally' pick up a token too much/little or fudge them between cards. Now I am not advocating for dice everywhere, specifically Æmber should be tracked with tokens due to the number of ways (steal, capture, other cards) cards interact with single Æmber tokens. Keys also should be uniform for all players. But with reasonable regulation, which is easily implemented, there is no reason dice shouldn't be allowed. In fact doing so would make it easier for new players to find material without getting a core set, which for many isn't a desirable product because of the price you're paying for decks that don't really give you the experience you are looking for - after all you want your experience to be unique!

True you can still cheat with tokens, but bumping a die still seems far easier than shifting a token from one card to another. Mind you I don’t really care for the ruling either way, don’t intend to use dice and don’t really care if others do, I just understand their logic behind the decision.

29 minutes ago, Hyperjayman said:

A spin-down is shaped exactly like a D20. A spin-down rolls exactly like a D20. It it has exatly the numbers 1 through 20 on it. The participants on Geek & Sundry-Spellslingers roll it to determine who goes first. How much of a stubborn moron do you have to be to keep insisting it isn’t a die?

Not everyone you disagree with in life will be a moron, friend. Some of them might even be smarter than you.

Spin-downs are not designed nor intended to be rolled, which, by any definition, is the key feature of a die. There's a reason why we don't call them dice in the Magic community.

14 minutes ago, WonderWAAAGH said:

Not everyone you disagree with in life will be a moron, friend. Some of them might even be smarter than you.

Spin-downs are not designed nor intended to be rolled, which, by any definition, is the key feature of a die. There's a reason why we don't call them dice in the Magic community.

Hammers are not designed or intended to be murder weapons, but they can still be used as one. Your logic is flawed, as is most of your arguments.

15 hours ago, sabrjay said:

Go play that game if that's what you like so much.

5 minutes ago, sabrjay said:

Your logic is flawed, as is most of your arguments.

If you don't like me you don't have to respond. No one is forcing you to be here, nor read anything that I write. Godspeed, friend.

Sometimes you have a point, but this is not one of those times. A d20 that is numbered differently than other d20s is still a d20. A die with blank sides is still a die. Of course, you know this, but are enjoying the argument.

Every definition of the term "die" or "dice" that I've read indicates that a) they're rolled and b) intended for a random outcome. Spin-downs are very much the opposite, on both accounts.

17 minutes ago, WonderWAAAGH said:

Every definition of the term "die" or "dice" that I've read indicates that a) they're rolled and b) intended for a random outcome. Spin-downs are very much the opposite, on both accounts.

But it can still be rolled and if you roll it still has 1/20 odds of rolling 1-20, the exact same odds as a die. I mean you do you but I don’t see any Marshall that’s going to pass something that looks, feels, and acts exactly as a die unless they’re ok with dice to begin with.