1 minute ago, GuacCousteau said:

I'm definitely already of the belief that purple actions require a Force token to be spent to use them as your normal action, not a bonus action.

It feels like much needed balancing to Force pilots. They're like red actions but with more of a cost to Force users, who are the best pilots at ignoring stress because of their built in dice mods.

The Delta-7 having access to a white evade as their normal action would be mad. It would be Soontir Fel style token stacking on every pilot with no drawback. It being a bonus action would be even worse. It would always be worth it to spend the Force token because you could take a focus action and the evade for a net gain in how many dice you can effect.

The evade being purple forces you to make a choice: save the Force token which can be used on attack or defence, but requires you to roll paint, or cash it in for an evade token which isn't as flexible but guarantees you an evade result even in the case of blank. It's the only way to make the focus/evade debate all other pilot go through matter on Jedi pilots.

I don’t know that I agree, but I wouldn’t mind terribly. It would keep them so very much cheaper than the free action version.

I just think they’re more likely to make the ships OP and have them priced through the roof to start with.

3 minutes ago, GuacCousteau said:

I'm definitely already of the belief that purple actions require a Force token to be spent to use them as your normal action, not a bonus action.

It feels like much needed balancing to Force pilots. They're like red actions but with more of a cost to Force users, who are the best pilots at ignoring stress because of their built in dice mods.

The Delta-7 having access to a white evade as their normal action would be mad. It would be Soontir Fel style token stacking on every pilot with no drawback. It being a bonus action would be even worse. It would always be worth it to spend the Force token because you could take a focus action and the evade for a net gain in how many dice you can effect.

The evade being purple forces you to make a choice: save the Force token which can be used on attack or defence, but requires you to roll paint, or cash it in for an evade token which isn't as flexible but guarantees you an evade result even in the case of blank. It's the only way to make the focus/evade debate all other pilot go through matter on Jedi pilots.

I don't see that happening. It's like the most nimble ship around, it wouldn't make any sense for its evade to be harder than it is in other fighters.

If it were white, how would you token stack? You'd have no way of getting a focus as well as an evade, you can only do that if purple lets you evade as a bonus action.

I think they'll just be expensive, as they should be.

To those wanting super action efficient jedi, that’s the quick road to turning this into 1.0 all over again which no one should want. Also remember jedi are much less effective in a ship than in person. It boosts their reflexes sure but even Anakin, the most powerful jedi in existence, used pilot skill not magic tricks to be a badass pilot. Obiwan was just ******** his pants alot and flying with adrenaline most of the time. The other few jedi we actually see flying aren’t terribly good at it. Jedi will not and should not be OP pilots. Now OP support, there is some likelihood there.

2 minutes ago, mazz0 said:

I don't see that happening. It's like the most nimble ship around, it wouldn't make any sense for its evade to be harder than it is in other fighters.

For the same reason the TIE Advanced doesn't have it when it did in 1e. Game balance.

3 minutes ago, mazz0 said:

If it were white, how would you token stack? You'd have no way of getting a focus as well as an evade, you can only do that if purple lets you evade as a bonus action.

Sorry, I probably didn't make myself clear. We're talking about if purple means you can spend a Force to perform it as a bonus action. By implication, that means you can perform an evade action as your normal action without spending the Force, effectively making it a white evade action.

So if you perform that evade as your normal action - like a white action - you're left with an evade token and effectively 1-3 calculate tokens, depending on the pilot. For no cost. Given your average roll, 2-3 Force tokens is as good as a focus token. In some ways, it's even better.

Do you see what I mean? For one simple action, you get almost as much ability to modify 3 defence dice (4 with Stealth Device) as PTL Tycho did in 1e. It's not quite Soontir Fel levels, so that might have been a bad comparison, as two Force tokens obviously aren't as good as two focus tokens but it's very, very close.

I don't believe it's in keeping with the 2e design philosophy. The number of ships that can easily get focus and evade stacks is extremely rare. It's basically just the Phantom. Even Fel needs a bullseye arc to do it.

And that isn't even going to do the bonus action side of it, which is even better. As I said, if you have two Force tokens and you focus as your normal action, then spend a Force token to do an evade action you've gained even more dice mods. You're effectively sat on an evade, a focus and a calculate. Now that really is close to 1e Fel levels.

It's too much.

Bear in mind also that none of that stresses you, as it did Fel. It hasn't limited your dial at all. There is also no limit on the number of actions you can perform.

A Jedi pilot with two Force tokens can perform a maneuver, barrel roll or boost by spending one token, focus as their normal action and then take an evade. And still none of that stresses you. Yes, you've traded your 'calculate' for a reposition but ****, if that isn't broken 1e Soontir Fel levels, I don't know what is.

It has to be spend a Force to be able to use the action at all. It just doesn't make sense otherwise.

15 minutes ago, mazz0 said:

I think they'll just be expensive, as they should be.

Just remember that the Eta-2 is still to come. While it's unlikely FFG will design it to be strictly better, it's probably going to go beyond the Delta-7 in many ways. If you cost the Delta-7 high enough, the Eta-2 almost certainly becomes unplayably expensive.

4 minutes ago, LordFajubi said:

To those wanting super action efficient jedi, that’s the quick road to turning this into 1.0 all over again which no one should want. Also remember jedi are much less effective in a ship than in person. It boosts their reflexes sure but even Anakin, the most powerful jedi in existence, used pilot skill not magic tricks to be a badass pilot. Obiwan was just ******** his pants alot and flying with adrenaline most of the time. The other few jedi we actually see flying aren’t terribly good at it. Jedi will not and should not be OP pilots. Now OP support, there is some likelihood there.

Not true at all - Anakin's reflexes appeared to be so good (making him such a great pilot) because the Force let him see the future.

2 hours ago, GuacCousteau said:

General Grievous' pilot ability:

"After performing an attack, if the defender is destroyed you may remove it from the board and take it home with you. You must say "your ship will make a fine addition to my collection" to your opponent while doing so."

That one made my day! I can actually hear it in his voice right now, including the obligatory cough at the end

2 minutes ago, GuacCousteau said:

For the same reason the TIE Advanced doesn't have it when it did in 1e. Game balance.

Sorry, I probably didn't make myself clear. We're talking about if purple means you can spend a Force to perform it as a bonus action. By implication, that means you can perform an evade action as your normal action without spending the Force, effectively making it a white evade action.

So if you perform that evade as your normal action - like a white action - you're left with an evade token and effectively 1-3 calculate tokens, depending on the pilot. For no cost. Given your average roll, 2-3 Force tokens is as good as a focus token. In some ways, it's even better.

Do you see what I mean? For one simple action, you get almost as much ability to modify 3 defence dice (4 with Stealth Device) as PTL Tycho did in 1e. It's not quite Soontir Fel levels, so that might have been a bad comparison, as two Force tokens obviously aren't as good as two focus tokens but it's very, very close.

...

But you only get one of those force tokens back each turn, and if you're spending them all on defence then you're not spending them on attack (which is unmodified, since you're evading)

I don’t think it’s terrible for exactly the reason mazz0 brings up. You still have to be economical with when you do these things

One new idea, though: spend the force to perform it as a bonus action, and become stressed. I don’t think that’s been suggested, but it would reign it in considerably.

1 minute ago, SpiderMana said:

I don’t think it’s terrible for exactly the reason mazz0 brings up. You still have to be economical with when you do these things

One new idea, though: spend the force to perform it as a bonus action, and become stressed. I don’t think that’s been suggested, but it would reign it in considerably.

It should be a redder shade of purple then

6 minutes ago, mazz0 said:

But you only get one of those force tokens back each turn, and if you're spending them all on defence then you're not spending them on attack (which is unmodified, since you're evading)

I didn't say it explicitly, but the implication of token stacking and referring to the Force tokens as 'calculates' was that you can spend some of them on attack if you want/need to.

That's been the case for every token stacker in the game's history. That's exactly what makes them OP. It's exactly why Boba with Han gunner and/or 0-0-0 is on top of the meta right now.

A focus and an evade that you save just for defence is bad enough. A focus that you spend on an attack with an evade and a calculate still left back for defence is huge.

And yes, only one regens a turn. But spending everything to tank just one turn can be the turning point that wins the game.

We also don't know what most of the pilot abilities are yet. Luke regens every time he defends. One or more of the Jedi could well have similar alternative means of getting tokens back.

5 minutes ago, SpiderMana said:

One new idea, though: spend the force to perform it as a bonus action, and become stressed. I don’t think that’s been suggested, but it would reign it in considerably.

It still doesn't hurt Jedi pilots as badly as it would normal pilots, not those with more than one Force token anyway, but yeah that would help.

1 minute ago, GuacCousteau said:

I didn't say it explicitly, but the implication of token stacking and referring to the Force tokens as 'calculates' was that you can spend some of them on attack if you want/need to.

That's been the case for every token stacker in the game's history. That's exactly what makes them OP. It's exactly why Boba with Han gunner and/or 0-0-0 is on top of the meta right now.

A focus and an evade that you save just for defence is bad enough. A focus that you spend on an attack with an evade and a calculate still left back for defence is huge.

And yes, only one regens a turn. But spending everything to tank just one turn can be the turning point that wins the game.

We also don't know what most of the pilot abilities are yet. Luke regens every time he defends. One or more of the Jedi could well have similar alternative means of getting tokens back.

I don't think one turn of fully modified defence is OP.

One attack of fully modified defence, I should say! It's no worse than that chap who doesn't die the first time his hull reaches 0.

1 minute ago, mazz0 said:

I don't think one turn of fully modified defence is OP.

It's not one turn though, is it?

You can do it every other turn.

1 minute ago, mazz0 said:

One attack of fully modified defence, I should say! It's no worse than that chap who doesn't die the first time his hull reaches 0.

It's definitely more than one attack. A token stack is usually good for defending twice.

Tel Trevura can only block damage to the point he's left with 1 hull and he's in what is very possibly the worst ship in 2e. Tel Trevura doesn't roll 3 defence dice as standard. With a good enough token stack, two ships can absolutely lay into a 3 hull Delta-7 and it will come out still with those 3 hull.

It's way worse than Tel Trevura.

Obi Wan's Pilot Ability? Just flavour text saying: Flying is for Droids!

"You may cheat one time per game, so long as when called on it you say 'It is allowed... from a certain point of view.' If you do not, you immediately lose the game as if by concession."

4 hours ago, mazz0 said:

Not true at all - Anakin's reflexes appeared to be so good (making him such a great pilot) because the Force let him see the future.

Seeing the future would not boost your reflexes, or are jedi super computers that can plan 50 moves ahead and execute all actions in a specific order? They would have to have instinctual awareness to a point of precognition but seeing the future wouldn’t make you any faster. I picture them like spider-man. His spider sense gives him a heads up but he still has to be fast enough to do anything about it.

11 minutes ago, LordFajubi said:

Seeing the future would not boost your reflexes, or are jedi super computers that can plan 50 moves ahead and execute all actions in a specific order? They would have to have instinctual awareness to a point of precognition but seeing the future wouldn’t make you any faster. I picture them like spider-man. His spider sense gives him a heads up but he still has to be fast enough to do anything about it.

It’s called space magic. The exact hows of what makes it work aren’t that important.

14 minutes ago, LordFajubi said:

Seeing the future would not boost your reflexes, or are jedi super computers that can plan 50 moves ahead and execute all actions in a specific order? They would have to have instinctual awareness to a point of precognition but seeing the future wouldn’t make you any faster. I picture them like spider-man. His spider sense gives him a heads up but he still has to be fast enough to do anything about it.

Tell that to George Lucas!

4 hours ago, GuacCousteau said:

It's not one turn though, is it?

You can do it every other turn.

It's definitely more than one attack. A token stack is usually good for defending twice.

Tel Trevura can only block damage to the point he's left with 1 hull and he's in what is very possibly the worst ship in 2e. Tel Trevura doesn't roll 3 defence dice as standard. With a good enough token stack, two ships can absolutely lay into a 3 hull Delta-7 and it will come out still with those 3 hull.

It's way worse than Tel Trevura.

Every third turn, and only if you don’t use any of your force tokens on the two intermediate turns.

1 hour ago, Qualitypunk said:

Obi Wan's Pilot Ability? Just flavour text saying: Flying is for Droids!

Oh, this is why I hate flying.

@GuacCousteau is probably right about the purple actions costing a force token and otherwise being taken as a normal action. them evading as a free action along with their normal white action is way too powerful when you take into account the extra boosts and barrel rolls the Delta-7 will be able to take thanks to its ship ability. On top of that, I'm willing to bet that one of the upgrades that was partially spoiled is a force talent that grants a purple coordinate, and we already know Palp will be granting that action in that color as well. Spending a force after your normal action to coordinate a friendly would be bonkers and probably more than a little unfair. Besides, if the purple actions work as others have suggested (spending a force after taking an action for a free action that happens to be purple), it makes the Delta's ship ability redundant, basically 3 lines of text that could've been replaced by purple actions.

1 hour ago, Hippie Moosen said:

@GuacCousteau is probably right about the purple actions costing a force token and otherwise being taken as a normal action. them evading as a free action along with their normal white action is way too powerful when you take into account the extra boosts and barrel rolls the Delta-7 will be able to take thanks to its ship ability. On top of that, I'm willing to bet that one of the upgrades that was partially spoiled is a force talent that grants a purple coordinate, and we already know Palp will be granting that action in that color as well. Spending a force after your normal action to coordinate a friendly would be bonkers and probably more than a little unfair. Besides, if the purple actions work as others have suggested (spending a force after taking an action for a free action that happens to be purple), it makes the Delta's ship ability redundant, basically 3 lines of text that could've been replaced by purple actions.

There is a whole other thread discussing this for those curious:

Mechanically if the Aethersprite has white Evade then they just evade and use the force for focus. That would be nuts, especially when they could take the new Force ability and get 2 for 1 (though in general that ability doesn’t seem good).

To balance that they get force evade which almost certainly means spend a force to take the action.

If Obi Wan gets to spend effectively 2 force for an Evade when he is attacked then that seems pretty decent.

All of this is speculation of course.

35 minutes ago, DodgingArcs said:

they could take the new Force ability and get 2 for 1

The what?

1 hour ago, mazz0 said:

The what?

Brilliant Evasion force talent.