1 minute ago, Phelan Boots said:

You are consistently narrow minded and jump to conclusions.

Nope. You need to forgive me for following the proffered name of the proposed talent to its logical conclusion. You want a Fang with shields, the Evade action and 2 more hp instead of the Concordia Faceoff ability. FCS would be a waste of points on the build if you take your proposed Talent since you're relying on not shooting your locked target to get the benefit you want. So Collison Detector would probably be the go to sensor slot, if any. I'm curious what price range you think this Talent would fall into.

15 minutes ago, Hiemfire said:

Nope. You need to forgive me for following the proffered name of the proposed talent to its logical conclusion. You want a Fang with shields, the Evade action and 2 more hp instead of the Concordia Faceoff ability. FCS would be a waste of points on the build if you take your proposed Talent since you're relying on not shooting your locked target to get the benefit you want. So Collison Detector would probably be the go to sensor slot, if any. I'm curious what price range you think this Talent would fall into.

Nope. It’s just a name. Call it Stay on Target or Target Lockey Focus Switchy . The meat is in the mechanics. Collision Detectors may be better than FCS, indeed Advanced Sensors could be really good too. FCS wouldn’t necessarily be bad though, if you do get a chance to “Target Fixate” it becomes really good by allowing you to double modify and reposition every turn.

You make a good point about the Fang Fighters. I do want my Rebel “Super Fighter” to be comparable ( not identical ) to the TIE Defender and StarViper. To that end, pricing would probably be around 3 points. With price reductions to the chassis, I think flying Gavin and two Rogue Squadron Escorts with that talent, R4, and a System should be a possible list. I’m pretty confident it would be both interesting to fly and to fly against.

34 minutes ago, Hiemfire said:

I'm curious what price range you think this Talent would fall into.

Unless the cost is negative it's too expensive.

Just now, Phelan Boots said:

It’s just a name.

The name should describe its purpose. That aside, the E-Wing is meant to "Boom & Zoom" like an A-Wing is supposed to but with the durability and firepower of a X-Wing. It has the dial, stats and action bar for that, its pricing at the moment limits its viability.

Just now, Hiemfire said:

The name should describe its purpose. That aside, the E-Wing is meant to "Boom & Zoom" like an A-Wing is supposed to but with the durability and firepower of a X-Wing. It has the dial, stats and action bar for that, its pricing at the moment limits its viability.

I'd say more accurately it's a Boom and Zoom fighter that if you're not careful can chew you up and spit you out in a Turn and Burn fight Especially paired with an R4 to get the White 1-Turn (although I'd KILL to have a Talon Roll on top. I generally find it much more useful close-quarters than the S-Loop).

Hey, there's an idea for the R7: When you make a White turn you can turn it into a Talon Roll.

11 minutes ago, Hiemfire said:

The name should describe  its purpos  e. 

Tell that to FFG. Lot’s of the upgrade names don’t describe their function.

11 minutes ago, Hiemfire said:

That aside, the E-Wing is meant to "Boom & Zo  om"  like an A-Wing is supposed to but with the durability and firepower of a X-Wing. It has the dial, stats and action bar for that, its pricing at the moment limits its viability.

You’re correct, and I agree with all of this. I’m proposing an optional upgrade that would change the way the ship plays.

The proposed "TL nerf' talent is basically a weaker version of pre-banhammer Composure. Being able to boost>White focus was amazing for the few weeks I could use it. The talent proposed isnt nearly so nice.

33 minutes ago, Ambaryerno said:

Hey,   there's an idea for the R7:   When you make a White turn you   can turn it into  a  Talon  Roll.

Treating it as red. 6pts. On the E-Wing you'd be looking at Tallon 1,2 and 3s. So quite potent. Might need to limit it to E-Wings. Tallon rolling Y-Wings and Kimogilas could be problematic.

37 minutes ago, Hiemfire said:

Treating it as red. 6pts. On the E-Wing you'd be looking at Tallon 1,2 and 3s. So quite potent. Might need to limit it to E-Wings. Tallon rolling Y-Wings and Kimogilas could be problematic.

If it needs to be a White turn it would be on 2s and 3s. The 1 Turn is Red without the R4. And yeah, of course it would be a Red T-Roll. I'm cool with limiting it to E-wings only since the R7 was designed specifically FOR the E-wing in the Legends lore. Let's reword:

R7 Astromech
(E-wing Only)

When you perform a White turn and are not stressed, you may instead make it a Red Tallon Roll of the same speed.

That should address it: Locks the R7 to the E-wing, and you can't use the ability while stressed.

Or how about this:

When you perform a White turn and are not stressed, you may instead make it a Red Tallon Roll of the same speed. If you perform it on a 2 Turn, take a second stress token.

That should balance out being able to T-Roll on both a 2 AND 3, on top of the S-Loop.

31 minutes ago, Ambaryerno said:

If it needs to be a White turn it would be on 2s and 3s. The 1 Turn is Red without the R4. And yeah, of course it would be a Red T-Roll. I'm cool with limiting it to E-wings only since the R7 was designed specifically FOR the E-wing in the Legends lore. Let's reword:

R7 Astromech
(E-wing Only)

When you perform a White turn and are not stressed, you may instead make it a Red Tallon Roll of the same speed.

That should address it: Locks the R7 to the E-wing, and you can't use the ability while stressed.

Or how about this:

When you perform a White turn and are not stressed, you may instead make it a Red Tallon Roll of the same speed. If you perform it on a 2 Turn, take a second stress token.

That should balance out being able to T-Roll on both a 2 AND 3, on top of the S-Loop.

By treating the maneuver as red (instead of requiring the turn to be white) you open up Tallon 1s even though the 1 hard is red and it precludes doing it while stressed anyways, I see that as a good thing. Unless you recall something from the lore that makes the E-Wing unable to do that even with the R7 assisting?

I mean technically ANY ship ought to be capable of executing Tallon Rolls at any speed (all it really is based on the EU text descriptions is a lag pursuit roll) so there's nothing in the lore to support the in-game restrictions for ANY fighter-scale ship. I'd consider it more of a balance thing.

4 minutes ago, Ambaryerno said:

I mean technically ANY ship ought to be capable of executing Tallon Rolls at any speed (all it really is based on the EU text descriptions is a lag pursuit roll) so there's nothing in the lore to support the in-game restrictions for ANY fighter-scale ship. I'd consider it more of a balance thing.

If the E-Wing only drops a couple of points, or none, I think it would be fairly balanced at 6 pts. Right now I'm puzzling how to set up a hypothetical Whistler astro. My memory keeps going back to the maneuver where Corran had the squad's Y's target lock him to engage a Lancer frigate outside of its targeting range to keep them alive. Whistler shut off the signal the Y-Wings were locked to while Corran panicked. So something like: E-Wing only, 2 charges non-recurring, "After you fully execute a maneuver, if you have a friendly ship's lock on you, you may spend 1 charge and transfer the lock to an enemy ship at range 2-3." Still has the E-Wing's no locks within range 1 limit, but doesn't allow him to toss one across the map.

I think FFG put themselves in a box with the E-Wing, like it's elite designed counterpart (albeit different in abilities) the TIE Defender. They simply made the ship have everything basically, fighter-wise.

I think Frank has the following written on the top corner of a white-board in the FFG conference room:

2.0 NEVER TO ALLOW:

3 Defenders with any good mods in a list

3 E-Wing list with munitions

I agree that I t seems FFG’s intent was to make the E-Wing to “Boom and Zoom”. However, the nature of X-Wing and it’s limitations as a table top game make he tactic itself is questionable though. For B&Z to work well you need three things, room to run away, speed to run away, and three dimensions of space.

We can’t really do anything about item number 3, as our game takes place on a two dimensional approximation. The first issue, room to run away, has significant limitations on 3x3 game board, but there’s not much we can do about that either. Finally speed becomes an issue as well. With a couple of exceptions, speed is capped at 5-forward plus a 1-boost.

What if we made the E-Wing faster? Allow it to boost with speed two straights and banks?

2-straight/bank boosts would make it faster than the A-wing, and it should not be.

1 hour ago, clanofwolves said:

I think FFG put themselves in a box with the E-Wing, like it's elite designed counterpart (albeit different in abilities) the TIE Defender. They simply made the ship have everything basically, fighter-wise.

Starvipers are in that bunch too, but they have the ability to be fielded with their base 4 hull and a single shield as an pricey mainline fighter (Virago jacks it right up to the same level, though). Overall each of the ships are different from the others, but similar in that they are very much superiority fighters.

The E-Wing, as others noted, is in a tough spot because if it’s made too cheap we’ll get E-Wing Torp lists with full-mod alpha strikes to die for. The hard cap on point reduction is about 3 points less than it is currently, before 3x Proton Torp Knave lists become possible.

2 hours ago, clanofwolves said:

I think FFG put themselves in a box with the E-Wing, like it's elite designed counterpart (albeit different in abilities) the TIE Defender. They simply made the ship have everything basically, fighter-wise.

I think Frank has the following written on the top corner of a white-board in the FFG conference room:

2.0 NEVER TO ALLOW:

3 Defenders with any good mods in a list

3 E-Wing list with munitions

Lol, have thought similar. I imagine a design note for e-wings: "Priced = outside of competitive tier, make Corran strictly worse than Luke"

People acting like FFG are dumb fumbling idiots because certain ships are not competitively good, but in reality they are intentionally keeping the pool of competitive ships small to make their jobs easier.

Seriously. Just drop 'em all by 3 points (to prevent 3x Proton) and call it a day.

The ship is fine, if a tad over-costed given available upgrades. Just like the rest of the Rebel arsenal.

So I've been doing some testing of E-Wings with some friends from my local gaming group, using a list comprising 3 Knaves with Protons, FCS and an R3 Astromech.

Points cost would currently be 228, the premise being that reducing the cost of the E-Wing by 10 points wouldn't be completely ridiculous.

And the conclusion had been that it's actually quite a fun list to both fly and fly against. It hasn't posted a victory as yet, but it's come close a couple of times... before inevitably being hunted down by something with higher initiative!

While the Alpha strike can hurt, as a B-Wing found out earlier this evening, it can also fizzle - my Kavil somehow managed to get away with suffering 2 shields lost and one crit getting through from 2 double-modded Torps!

So it's subject to the whims of the dice gods as much as any list!

I think people are being overly negative about the idea of 3 E-Wings with Protons, particularly low Initative genetics... such things can easily be avoided.

I'm not saying FFG should go straight in with a full 10 point reduction right off the bat, but I don't feel it would be completely ridiculous to do so. After all, it'd be nice to see more E-Wings on the tournament tables...

R7 Astromech: 5 points

Requirements: Rebel, E-wing

“When you target lock an enemy ship within range 2-3, you may assign your ship a focus token if it doesn’t already have one.”