Happy Friday everyone,

This week let's chat about the E-Wing, how to you make the E-Wing competitive without changing pilot/card text?

The first thing that comes to mind is, of course, a price drop.

After that, I wonder if it could have a slot added to it? I don't know what offhand, but it could be interesting to give it a new option or two.

1 minute ago, Punning Pundit said:

The first thing that comes to mind is, of course, a price drop.

After that, I wonder if it could have a slot added to it? I don't know what offhand, but it could be interesting to give it a new option or two.

Not by too much if at all. Being able to fit 3x with prots in a list is not something that should happen. First pass double modded prots with that dial... /cring

Happy Friday CB!

Punning Pundit has it right with a cost decrease. Not sure about an additional slot.

2 minutes ago, Hiemfire said:

 Not by too much if at all. Being able to fit 3x with  prots in a list is not something that should happen. First pass double modded prots with that dial... /cring

Yeah, munitions balance is a tricky thing: if they're too good, you end up chasing out all the low defense ships. And then you can _only_ use munitions ships. But if they're not good enough you start to lose all the ships that rely on them.

If 3 E-Wings with double modded torps become a _thing_, then you'll basically never see Whisper again. So... what can FFG do? Maybe make 1 mod free for E-Wings?

A healthy points drop and its a solid ship. Considering Generic X's are 41 but the E has a better dial, experimental scanners, inherent boost and evade (natural juke access), 1 more green and higher shield to hull ratio plus a systems slot.. yea its a very very solid chassis that starts with torpedoes fully modded. Drop it to 51 base and its a monster capable of fitting 3 fully loaded or 3 + support. 51 might even be a hair cheap actually.

Editt- ninja'd all to ****

3 minutes ago, Stoneface said:

Happy Friday CB!

Punning Pundit has it right with a cost decrease. Not sure about an additional slot.

If it could take Primed Thrusters or Hyperspace tracking, the E-wing would be in an interesting place. But. Well. I somehow doubt that's going to happen any time soon.

Honestly, relative to a defender (the imperial counterpart) they should cost alot less. Like 4 naked in a list cheaper tbh

8-10pt reduction across the board.

The solution is not more slots because they are expensive AF already.

Corran with no force and I5 should not be more than Vader.

I thought about the defender but honestly its pretty easy to see why. Ds don't have torpedoes or the ability to lock outside range 3. If anything it might go down to 58 base. And then drop the named pilots by 3 each. The experimental scanner screwed them IMO.

15 minutes ago, Hiemfire said:

Not by too much if at all. Being able to fit 3x with prots in a list is not something that should happen. First pass double modded prots with that dial... /cring

If protorps go up to where they should be (12pts) then a price drop to 55 would be fine.

10 minutes ago, Punning Pundit said:

If it could take Primed Thrusters or Hyperspace tracking, the E-wing would be in an interesting place. But. Well. I somehow doubt that's going to happen any time soon.

I could support the addition of a tech slot. Hyper is out of the question for everyone but FO. Ferro is Resistance only. Running Targ Sync would make for an interesting mutual support set up. Primed might make it a bit too nimble, but might not. Advanced Optics might be useful if a bit redundant.

For those pushing for a cost reduction. The Low generics are priced so that there can be a max of two with torps of any type in a list. E-Wings have a near perfect simile for Redline's pilot ability hard baked into the chassis. Advanced Prots exist.

1 minute ago, Hugeman said:

If protorps go up to where they should be (12pts) then a price drop to 55 would be fine.

Maybe a price drop, drop the torp slot, and then add the tech slot.

20 minutes ago, Hiemfire said:

Not by too much if at all. Being able to fit 3x with prots in a list is not something that should happen. First pass double modded prots with that dial... /cring

Agreed. Furthermore, we have no reason at all to think FFG is motivated to make random generics good or even decent. Furtherfurthermore, this price range is the price range in rebels that least needs better options.

Maybe we get a Corran cost adjustment, but I don't expect much else.

1 minute ago, Hiemfire said:

I could support the addition of a tech slot. Hyper is out of the question for everyone but FO. Ferro is Resistance only. Running Targ Sync would make for an interesting mutual support set up. Primed might make it a bit too nimble  , but might not. Advanced Optics might be useful if a bit redundant.

 For those pushing for a cost reduction. The Low generics are priced so that there can be a max of two with torps of any type in a list. E-Wings have a near perfect simile for Redline's pilot ability hard baked into the chassis.

I wonder if they could do something like pull the torp slot from the lower PS E-Wings, and drop the price by a _lot_, while giving a smaller price drop to the higher PS E-Wings?

Just now, Punning Pundit said:

I wonder if they could do something like pull the torp slot from the lower PS E-Wings, and drop the price by a _lot_, while giving a smaller price drop to the higher PS E-Wings?

Fcs + R4. Have you tried it?

a SLIGHT price decrease across the board and as the E-Wing was supposed to be pretty **** advanced, maybe give it access to systems OR a tech upgrade.

2 minutes ago, Kehl_Aecea said:

a SLIGHT price decrease across the board and as the E-Wing was supposed to be pretty **** advanced, maybe give it access to systems OR a tech upgrade.

They have sensor slots. It is what replaced the 1.0 systems slot.

Just now, Hiemfire said:

They have sensor slots. It is what replaced the 1.0 systems slot.

That's what I meant... either sensor or tech slot like how the Scyk has a hardpoint slot that can be missile, torp, or cannon.

13 minutes ago, Carnor Rex said:

I thought about the defender but honestly its pretty easy to see why. Ds don't have torpedoes or the ability to lock outside range 3. If anything it might go down to 58 base. And then drop the named pilots by 3 each. The experimental scanner screwed them IMO.

Yes it adds a hefty premium and renders the linked actions almost useless.

Three with Proton Torpedoes may or may not be a problem.

As I've seen pointed out by other people: A Jendon Shuttle can fly in a list with 3x Starwings, each with OS-1, Proton Torpedoes, Advanced SLAM, and FCS. That's pretty similar to an E-Wing Alpha Strike. 3 low-init ships which can roll in with locks and focus. */3/3/3 is probably a bit better than */2/4/3, but not that different. Starwings can reload or SLAM out for some solid Boom & Zoom, but turn around oddly. E-Wings have an easier time setting up a second Lock late in the game, and have an actual primary weapon for Range 1.

Knave Squadron Escort should be 66-9=57 points. No room for anything except Proton Torpedoes on the cheapest E-Wing. If they wind up increasing the price of Protons? The Knave prices should be 66 minus whatever that is.

The list really should have been legal to start, so we could see and observe against it, get in enough reps to tell if it's a problem. I'm sure FFG playtesters are decent and honest people, but a lot of the time, the sheer number of games, the number of reps, is going to matter greatly. Those 3x Torp-Es are the elephant in the room. Until we know for sure, the players of this game can't begin to understand or appreciate the balance of them. The list might be a major problem, but it could be fixed by points alone and we'd know and accept that they can't be lower than 58 points.

But if E-Wings aren't a problem with 3x Torps, how low can they go? Personally, I don't think lower than 54 for the Knave. That'd be 8 points--the cost of a shield upgrade--more than the cheapest Starviper. Starviper with a Shield Upgrade has a 3/3/4/2 statline. I think the Starviper is pretty fairly priced, so adding a shield feels like a the floor to me. No lower than that. Folks could go around and around on Experimental Sensors vs Banked barrel rolls, or the linked Focus vs Linked Lock, but to some extent, stats are stats.

//

Even 1 point off an E-Wing would go a long way. Consider: 2x Knaves with Proton Torpedoes, plus Wedge with a Proton Torpedo. It'd be legal at current torpedo prices if the Knaves were 60 points instead of 61.

//

I'm nervous about Tech, because of Targeting Synchronizer. A single E-Wing could light up a target for a bunch of Y-Wings. Three Grey Bombers each with Proton Torpedoes and a Knave with Targeting Synchronizer (presuming an 6 point cost, doubled 1e) and R3 has 7 points to spare at current E-Wing prices.

But on the other hand, this is exactly why I kind of suspect 3x Torpedo E-Wings might be something the game can withstand. This would be three easy Torpedo shots (single mod, but still), and a 4th ship which would have Focus/Lock with a regular primary to try to finish something off.

Another voice for a price decrease.

2 hours ago, Cubanboy said:

Happy Friday everyone,

This week let's chat about the E-Wing, how to you make the E-Wing competitive without changing pilot/card text?

10 points cheaper across the board. That's it, nothing else.

It's a great ship with a powerful ability. The only thing holding it back is it's price. (And its atrocious appearance)

21 minutes ago, HolySorcerer said:

It's a great ship with a powerful ability. The only thing holding it back is it's price. (And its atrocious appearance)

You mean that it's the prettiest ship in all of Star Wars, and all other ships are ashamed to be on the table with it?

I agree.