2 minutes ago, Redblock said:

Ok, I will try going slow, so you can follow U-wing at skill 3 gives coordinate to Jake, Jake does barrel roll (1), Jake gives focus to Wedge (2) Wedge does his linked boost (3), Jake now does his boost from ship ability (4) , gives focus to Brailen (5) Brailen does his barrel roll linked to focus (6). After that Jake does his maneuver, its green, so he also takes focus, just for fun

I see it now. Seems unlikely you're going to be successfully boosting and barrel rolling with three differently maneuverable ships within range one. It also does nothing to the prior argument about fly tremendously being a sub-par solution.

This is dream turn, most of the time you just give out 1 or 2 focuses, and get 2 ships with fully modded attacks (TL, or stress for brailen and focus)

@Redblock Seems like the X-wing scene in Lithuania is very clever.

Nothing clever, barrage bombers still win

On 11/15/2018 at 8:49 AM, BenBot said:

But now that it’s here I’ve been frustrated with how slowly I’m learning all the new cards and mechanics. I’m struggling to find a Rebel list that I like and I feel like I haven’t even been competitive in most of my 2.0 games so far.

Don't feel too bad, we've got some local folks who are past Regional Champs and Nationals Champs, and they've abandoned the Rebel faction, too.

Rebels are certainly behind the 8-Ball at the moment relative to Empire and Scum, and that won't change before January at the earliest, and will only change if there's some heavy and nearly faction-wide re-costing.

And with the Resistance just around the corner, either the Resistance or the Rebels are gonna have a pretty bad day. Since the RZ2 and T70 and Rey-Falcon are basically just buffed versions of the RZ1 and the T-65 and a Force-Laden version of the YT-1300, one of two scenarios can happen:
(1) The Resistance stuff will be priced more competitively than the Rebel alternatives, leading to basically "powercreeping" the Rebels right out of existence
-or-
(2) The Resistance stuff is priced fairly relative to the Rebel analogs, in which case it will also likely be underwhelming and Resistance can join Rebels at the bottom of the heap.

On 11/15/2018 at 1:49 PM, BenBot said:

I don’t know what my opponents lists do,

Leaving aside "Rebels are bad, mmmkay", I'm a little surprised no one has picked this up. It's super important to know what your opponents list can do.

Between game sessions, you can read up and explore popular pilots, abilities and so on. Get on a squad builder and theory up some synergistic combos for other factions. Go nuts and really delve. Look for things that seem powerful or fun or simply peak your interest. In the last couple of months, I've done all of this and although I've only put 4 or 5 different lists down against real people, (1 Rebel, the rest Imp), it's becoming very rare that I see something against me that I have to ask about.

Dials. It's so useful to know how the opposition ships move. You can look all of them up but it's a lot to process. I've learned a lot of them from just trying them at home, either proxy or on the Fly Casual sim, (thread is normally page 1 or 2). Most of the time, you only need to know the unusual moves some ships can do and the more common moves that some can't. For example, knowing which 1 speed moves the different TIE types can and can't do is a massive help. Knowing if your opponent has some hard turns that are stressful is another big one. It all informs you where to go yourself and, to some degree, gives you the opportunity to shaft pilots with higher Initiative.

Then, when it comes to the games, chat to your opponent beforehand, about what they've brought, how it works, what neat tricks they've got packed away. You won't get their tactics but you'll get necessary info, such as "range 1 of 4LOM is bad, mmmkay".

And dials here too, ask to see your opponents dials before they are set, even during the game is often fine if you need a reminder. I've both asked and been asked to show a dial on numerous occasions and it's never been any kind of issue.

I'm only a learner myself and um... play Imps.... but all of the above has helped me hold my own against far more experienced players, as well as demolish the occasional player with similar experience but far less knowledge.... apologetically.

And... well... playing Imps really helps too

But I've seen Rebels do well. A lot of the talk here about how bad they are, only applies to the top tables. The majority of tables are not at the top. Even so, Rebels do not do so well without decent knowledge and forethought. Unlike Imps....

On 11/15/2018 at 8:49 AM, BenBot said:

I’ve been playing X-Wing for about 3 years and I’ve had a lot of fun with this game! I was super excited for the changes in 2.0!

But now that it’s here I’ve been frustrated with how slowly I’m learning all the new cards and mechanics. I’m struggling to find a Rebel list that I like and I feel like I haven’t even been competitive in most of my 2.0 games so far.

I’m pretty sure that I just need to get more games in and find a list that works. Flying the Falcon was one of my favorite things in X-Wing and I’m sad at how awful Han is. I’ve given up on the Falcon but still have trouble being competitive with X-Wings and Y-Wings as well...

My local group has a lot of imperial players and I know that Rebels aren’t in the best place at the moment relative to the big hitters the Empire has available.

This post is just to vent a little. I know I’ll be having fun again soon but I am struggling to enjoy the game at this point.

My flying has been bad, my rolls have been terrible, I don’t know what my opponents lists do, and I can’t seem to build a list that works for me!

It’s hard to be a noob with a game I’ve been playing for 3 years!

I’ll dry my tears and pick my first world problems up off the floor now...

Thanks for being cool X-Wing. Now I just need to find out how to be cool 2.0...

??

Try han with ap5 and another ship. put lando crew on han. use ap 5 to coordinate a lando, and then reroll it with han's ability. it can be good.

25 minutes ago, tron999 said:

Try han with ap5 and another ship. put lando crew on han. use ap 5 to coordinate a lando, and then reroll it with han's ability. it can be good.

Be sure you always reroll both Lando die if you do decide to reroll. Just a reminder that Han's ability requires you to reroll ALL the dice if you reroll any. Not really sure Rebel Lando is worth a crew seat on literally any ship. Sad.

6 minutes ago, RebelProfundity said:

Be sure you always reroll both Lando die if you do decide to reroll. Just a reminder that Han's ability requires you to reroll ALL the dice if you reroll any. Not really sure Rebel Lando is worth a crew seat on literally any ship. Sad.

I would advocate for him on Han as a cheaper Perceptive Copilot (add Jan and/or title for extra tanky if you so desire) with a little risk... But I definitely rolled double-**** the one time I tried flying that.

you know what? we need more jank, and rebels offer plenty of those!

People wanna spam modified, I 5s? Fine! Let's hard counter them!

Remember Fenn Rau!? Of course you do! He actually hasn't changed at all from 1st ed, apart from losing r3-a2 that he used to counter expertise (which also no longer exists!)

And hey, he doesn't need VI anymore! So...how about he changed another pilot into an I 6 to counter I 5s...how about a pilot like Dutch? Yeah, not only can he drop torps at I 6, but I 6 coordinate gets around low Initiative target lock issues!

So now we got an I 6, proton torp Y-wing...but who to hand locks to?...how about ANOTHER I 6 with torps!?...but where do we find one of those?

I think that rebels need little fixes.

A lot of peoples say that a points decrease will make rebels broken so....

Since the2.0 beginning i heard that x wing would have been the skeleton of a rebel list (as bombers for many imperial lists like: "oh! I ve got some points i put inside an x wing") but... it's not possible because their point cost is appropriate but high.

So could need....

1)a good ship costed between z95 and y wing.

2)decrease the point cost of ships as x wing and u wing giving their configurations as optional and point costed (no more 0 points). If you don't want it you don't pay for it

Rebels are in a pretty bad spot at the moment.

I have run into a competitive list that won a big tournament too, however.

I have flown it 3 times so far and i have to say i was sceptic. But it is a very powerful list and good against a lot of the meta lists.

Wedge Antilles (52)
Crack Shot (1)

Jan Ors (42)
Trick Shot (1)
Moldy Crow (12)

Norra Wexley (43)
Proton Torpedoes (9)

Sabine Wren (38)
Debris Gambit (2)

Total: 200

View in Yet Another Squad Builder 2.0

So it basically is very minimalistic, and reunites everything remotely competitive that Rebels do have at the moment. The original list left debris gambit and trick shot off for bidding, but then most 5 and 6 Initiative centric imp and scum lists bid more than you can anyway and against the rest a bid is moot.

People make a lot of priority errors against it because they should go for Jan in reality, but they go for Wedge while she takes trick shots from behind cover and empowersWedges 1-2 shots he does get. While Norra Torps you and later gets 4 dice primaries at R1 from Jan. Sabine annoys the **** out of people meanwhile.

I still find it a bland and boring list however, not the flashy stuff you do with Scum and Imps.

4 hours ago, Manolox said:

I think that rebels need little fixes.

A lot of peoples say that a points decrease will make rebels broken so....

Since the2.0 beginning i heard that x wing would have been the skeleton of a rebel list (as bombers for many imperial lists like: "oh! I ve got some points i put inside an x wing") but... it's not possible because their point cost is appropriate but high.

So could need....

1)a good ship costed between z95 and y wing.

2)decrease the point cost of ships as x wing and u wing giving their configurations as optional and point costed (no more 0 points). If you don't want it you don't pay for it

I disagree with most things you say here.

One of the reasons why Imperials are so great at the moment is that they have really cheap options like the Tie Bomber besides their aces.

Rebels need more agressively priced generics across the board pretty much.

Then the primary ships that need to be adressed are not actually the X-Wing, as that one is one of the few where at least the high end ships see play. Also the S-Foils as they are seem fine to me.

The ships that need help because they are either overcosted in comparison to rolemates in other factions, or because of worse upgrade option combos are the ones that don’t see play, like B-Wing, E-Wing, A-Wing, K-Wing, nearly all their large ships, and to a lesser degree Y-Wing, Auzituck, U-Wing.

Some of these would also direly need I5+ pilot options as these oftennmake or break a ship.

Lastly, Rebels need cheaper and better Gunner and crew options, especially force wielders, where Vader alone outclasses all of them by leagues.

I could add that some of the best talents like Juke have no ship to go on except maybe Sabine and their faction Selfless talent is utter rubbish until you get better options to mitigate the received damage. I.e. cheaper ships that make selfless worth taking.

Wait a second...

I know Rau ain't exactly the bee's knees anymore because he's a support ship that clocks in at wedge/whisper prices (without upgrades)...but he's CHEAPER than before

He used to be 29 (58 in 2nd Ed) right? Now he's 55 with swarm tactics (27/28)...we may have a bit of a sleeper here

Of course Rau is a tad meta dependent. I 6 + coordinate + 1 ship token shutdown hardly does anything against swarms that get rerolls from other ships (as opposed to target locks)

Still, if high I spam persists, he might actually be a very decent counter

EDIT: cracken is another good way to get Dutch to lock on to pesky I 5+

I don't like this list as much because I like wedge a lot (wonder why...**** green dice) but it may end up being more solid

DART
Dutch, Airen, Roark, Thane

(36) Airen
(3) Swarm Tactics
Points 39

(42) "Dutch" Vander
(9) Proton Torpedoes
(2) R4 Astromech
Points 53

(38) Roark Garnet

(12) Moldy Crow
(1) Trick Shot
Points 51

(48) Thane Kyrell
(0) Servomotor S-foils
(9) Proton Torpedoes
Points 57

Total points: 200

Same principle, except cracken and dutch shoot at I 7, Dutch sets up Thane torp, and moldy crow is moldy crow

(Use roark on cracken)

Actually I don't really know if Roark works with swarm tactic...but Moldy is probably the best ship you can get at 51 points regardless

3 hours ago, ficklegreendice said:

Wait a second...

I know Rau ain't exactly the bee's knees anymore because he's a support ship that clocks in at wedge/whisper prices (without upgrades)...but he's CHEAPER than before

He used to be 29 (58 in 2nd Ed) right? Now he's 55 with swarm tactics (27/28)...we may have a bit of a sleeper here

Of course Rau is a tad meta dependent. I 6 + coordinate + 1 ship token shutdown hardly does anything against swarms that get rerolls from other ships (as opposed to target locks)

Still, if high I spam persists, he might actually be a very decent counter

EDIT: cracken is another good way to get Dutch to lock on to pesky I 5+

I don't like this list as much because I like wedge a lot (wonder why...**** green dice) but it may end up being more solid

DART
Dutch, Airen, Roark, Thane

(36) Airen
(3) Swarm Tactics
Points 39

(42) "Dutch" Vander
(9) Proton Torpedoes
(2) R4 Astromech
Points 53

(38) Roark Garnet

(12) Moldy Crow
(1) Trick Shot
Points 51

(48) Thane Kyrell
(0) Servomotor S-foils
(9) Proton Torpedoes
Points 57

Total points: 200

Same principle, except cracken and dutch shoot at I 7, Dutch sets up Thane torp, and moldy crow is moldy crow

(Use roark on cracken)

Actually I don't really know if Roark works with swarm tactic...but Moldy is probably the best ship you can get at 51 points regardless

Roark doesn't work on Swarm Tactics. Sorry.

But Wedge with Swarm Tactics, R3 and Proton Torpedoes, plus Airen with ST and Concussion Missiles, plus Dutch with ST, R4, and Proton Torpedoes, and finally a Bandit with Concussion Missiles gives you a list that all fire at I6, with 2 fully modded and 2 single modded ordnance strikes.

However, it's pretty terrible in actual play even though it obliterates e.g. Redline.

The list I posted earlier did okay at the tournament today. 2-2 with the losses being off by six points at time and twenty points at time. A few less errors in either loss would have probably gotten a good push through. The two wins were both around 200-100

On 11/17/2018 at 10:56 PM, Gilarius said:

Roark doesn't work on Swarm Tactics. Sorry.

But Wedge with Swarm Tactics, R3 and Proton Torpedoes, plus Airen with ST and Concussion Missiles, plus Dutch with ST, R4, and Proton Torpedoes, and finally a Bandit with Concussion Missiles gives you a list that all fire at I6, with 2 fully modded and 2 single modded ordnance strikes.

However, it's pretty terrible in actual play even though it obliterates e.g. Redline.

Yeah these one-trick pony lists just lack the versatility to be consistent. Even if they can have very good matchups of course.

It’s pretty much desperation at this point, scratching the bottom of the pot for some more competitive Rebel lists.

The one i posted earlier has two more games now, including against Cloak & Choke Whisper + Friends and vs. Boba, Palob 4-Lom. And is still unbeaten. I am really impressed by the list.

On 11/17/2018 at 1:02 PM, ficklegreendice said:

Wait a second...

I know Rau ain't exactly the bee's knees anymore because he's a support ship that clocks in at wedge/whisper prices (without upgrades)...but he's CHEAPER than before

He used to be 29 (58 in 2nd Ed) right? Now he's 55 with swarm tactics (27/28)...we may have a bit of a sleeper here

Uh, no he used to be 20, so an increase of roughly 30% in cost. Even then, he was only taken because he was a dirt cheap PS11 coordinate that could occasionally screw over offense. As soon as you lose the "dirt cheap", you have a pilot that's basically useless. He's the same points as Wedge with less defense, less offense and the the same Initiative. At that point, just Swarm tactics Wedge. He needs to be in the 46-48 point range. I assume his costing now is a knee jerk to the Ghost/Fenn lists at the end of 1.0, but right now he's unplayably overcosted.

On 11/15/2018 at 8:49 AM, BenBot said:

I’ve been playing X-Wing for about 3 years and I’ve had a lot of fun with this game! I was super excited for the changes in 2.0!

But now that it’s here I’ve been frustrated with how slowly I’m learning all the new cards and mechanics. I’m struggling to find a Rebel list that I like and I feel like I haven’t even been competitive in most of my 2.0 games so far.

I’m pretty sure that I just need to get more games in and find a list that works. Flying the Falcon was one of my favorite things in X-Wing and I’m sad at how awful Han is. I’ve given up on the Falcon but still have trouble being competitive with X-Wings and Y-Wings as well...

You've got to fly rebels in the way they want to be flown. Everyone is loving things like Thane, but Biggs is the correct answer. For example, this list keep wedge and Jan alive until the endgame, allowing them to really put the hurt on the opponents squad. fun to fly, and lots of damage mitigation.

Red Squadron Veteran — T-65 X-Wing43

Selfless3

Servomotor S-foils0

Ship Total: 46

Half Points: 23 Threshold: 3

Biggs Darklighter — T-65 X-Wing48

Servomotor S-foils0

Ship Total: 48

Half Points: 24 Threshold: 3

Wedge Antilles — T-65 X-Wing52

Servomotor S-foils0

Ship Total: 52

Half Points: 26 Threshold: 3

Jan Ors — HWK-290 Light Freighter42

Moldy Crow12

Ship Total: 54

Half Points: 27 Threshold: 3

1 hour ago, MasterShake2 said:

Uh, no he used to be 20, so an increase of roughly 30% in cost. Even then, he was only taken because he was a dirt cheap PS11 coordinate that could occasionally screw over offense. As soon as you lose the "dirt cheap", you have a pilot that's basically useless. He's the same points as Wedge with less defense, less offense and the the same Initiative. At that point, just Swarm tactics Wedge. He needs to be in the 46-48 point range. I assume his costing now is a knee jerk to the Ghost/Fenn lists at the end of 1.0, but right now he's unplayably overcosted.

Oh wow I forgot how busted he was

Anyway, no don't swarm tactics wedge. Dude is squishy and can arcdodge, why would you ever shackle him to some sctub?

Also he can't I 6 coordinate, removing Dutch's biggest weakness (low I target locks) and enabling a two I 6 torp list (Dutch can support from FAR) while not bungling your entire squad together

Plus rau is probably irritating as all **** for redline

Gotta try it out

1 hour ago, ficklegreendice said:

Oh wow I forgot how busted he was

Anyway, no don't swarm tactics wedge. Dude is squishy and can arcdodge, why would you ever shackle him to some sctub?

Also he can't I 6 coordinate, removing Dutch's biggest weakness (low I target locks) and enabling a two I 6 torp list (Dutch can support from FAR) while not bungling your entire squad together

Plus rau is probably irritating as all **** for redline

Gotta try it out

Wedge never arc dodges and Fenn is squishier and a lot of points for 2 unmodded dice.

An I 6 pilot that can boost or roll never arcdodges?

16 minutes ago, ficklegreendice said:

An I 6 pilot that can boost or roll never arcdodges?

I don’t get it, either... It’s kinda like the people who fly Vader or Guri, and ram them right up the bullseye arc of the biggest, nastiest ships the enemy has.

1 minute ago, It’s One Of Ours said:

I don’t get it, either... It’s kinda like the people who fly Vader or Guri, and ram them right up the bullseye arc of the biggest, nastiest ships the enemy has.

Oh, and I suppose you think you have a better way to fly Vader?

12 minutes ago, JJ48 said:

Oh, and I suppose you think you have a better way to fly Vader?

The only other way to fly him that could be seen as objectively worse than a head-on joust, would be straight into rocks or right off the board. So... don’t do any of that.