Is this the price of being overly reliant on turrets?

Fat turrets were 'easy' mode in 1st edition - piloting skills was far less important thanks to the ability to fire in any direction. Now basic flying is far more important in 2ed, and I have to wonder if those who previously relied on turrets are finding themselves in trouble?

2 minutes ago, Hedgehogmech said:

Is this the price of being overly reliant on turrets?

Fat turrets were 'easy' mode in 1st edition - piloting skills was far less important thanks to the ability to fire in any direction. Now basic flying is far more important in 2ed, and I have to wonder if those who previously relied on turrets are finding themselves in trouble?

Im going to agree on this, I've always been terrible at flying so the turret was a crutch I relied on too much (in an interesting twist my wife who has little interest in the game flies like a champ and almost never bumps unless she wants to, now I know how Antonio Salieri felt!). Now that I have to pay attention im really improving my skills and it shows when I play scum or empire.

If you want to try something fun and different, try a list with an Elusive Jek Porkins loaded up with a Hull Upgrade, S-Foils, and R5. Chopper’s a hilarious alternative...

Or try Kulbee Sperado with Elusive, Chopper, S-Foils, and a Cloaking Device.

15 minutes ago, Force Majeure said:

Some of us don't want to switch factions. Part of being a Rebel is being the underdog.

Yeah that's why I said "If that isn't for you...".

[1] play under-powered faction [2] not be an amazing pilot [3] win with regularity .... pick two

Fly what you like, man. You'll get there. Remember, some ships aren't optimized yet. I have a strong feeling that a LOT of later wave ships are over coasted to push players towards using Wave 1 releases. While I won't tell you what you HAVE to do, I am going to make some suggestions that worked for me.

I too loved flying the Falcon. ****, the Ghost was my jam for a while (I didn't even use TLT because screw that card). I had real problems making either large ship work in a list I enjoyed flying, so I swapped them out for U-Wings and K-Wings (two ships I LOATHED in 1.0 for different reasons). I love X-Wings. I tried my damnedest to make them work for me in 1.0 (I always had Vectored Thrusters stapled on them before Flight Assist Astromech and the S-Foil card came out) and now I never make a list without one in it. They're versatile, pack a punch, and can take some punishment if they don't get ganged up on. I've been ditching R2 droids and astromechs in general on them while using the Elusive talent to GREAT results. I've had some great games flying just 3 X-Wings (Wedge and Thane are great for a 1-2 punch) with Leevan Tenza w/ Debris gambit hanging around the rocks.

I don't know how you build your Y-Wings, but don't underestimate ion cannons (coupled with veteran turret gunner for the double tap) and an R4 droid to help with it's mobility and either Elusive or Expert Handling.

In 1.0, I had the issue of trying to fill every empty slot to make things powerful and viable options. Try running your ships lighter (seriously, X-wings are fantastic with only a talent that I rarely pop astromechs in them. The rotate turret action can be frustrating if you're used to turreted ships from first edition. A ship with coordinate could help cull the frustration of that a bit to rotate the turret before your ship engages. A U-Wing with tactical officer or the Sheathapede AP-5 can accomplish this (use which ever you can squeeze onto a list, but I have been LOVING U-Wings in this version).

5 hours ago, BenBot said:

I’ve been playing X-Wing for about 3 years and I’ve had a lot of fun with this game! I was super excited for the changes in 2.0!

But now that it’s here I’ve been frustrated with how slowly I’m learning all the new cards and mechanics. I’m struggling to find a Rebel list that I like and I feel like I haven’t even been competitive in most of my 2.0 games so far.

I’m pretty sure that I just need to get more games in and find a list that works. Flying the Falcon was one of my favorite things in X-Wing and I’m sad at how awful Han is. I’ve given up on the Falcon but still have trouble being competitive with X-Wings and Y-Wings as well...

My local group has a lot of imperial players and I know that Rebels aren’t in the best place at the moment relative to the big hitters the Empire has available.

This post is just to vent a little. I know I’ll be having fun again soon but I am struggling to enjoy the game at this point.

My flying has been bad, my rolls have been terrible, I don’t know what my opponents lists do, and I can’t seem to build a list that works for me!

It’s hard to be a noob with a game I’ve been playing for 3 years!

I’ll dry my tears and pick my first world problems up off the floor now...

Thanks for being cool X-Wing. Now I just need to find out how to be cool 2.0...

??

Don't be discouraged - just enjoy playing. It's not about winning it is about enjoying playing.

A fun list I play is

supernatural Luke with proton torpedoes

naked wedge with proton torpedoes

ten numb with squad leader

- ten co ordinates focus' to wedge

luke and wedge fire fully modded torps

hopefully something dies

It is not a top tier list but it is fun and on a good day you can beat up on top tier lists.

Enjoy the game for what it is -

I've been running the Trenchrunners and Fat Han lists that I used in 1e with some small tweaks.

Luke/Wedge/Biggs all with ProTorps is a pretty mean jousting list, even when facing other jousters. Luke has Instinctive Aim/R2 so he can fire ProTorps whenever he feels like it, even after a red move, and the shield regen is always good. Wedge has Swarm Tactics so Biggs can fire at I6. Biggs usually soaks up the opponents alpha leaving Luke and Wedge alive mid-game, which is normally bad for the opponent. Just point all three at your opponents most dangerous ship, and disintegrate it.

Luke: Instinctive Aim, ProTorps, R2 Astro, S-Foils

Wedge: Swarm Tactics, ProTorps, S-Foils

Biggs: ProTorps, S-Foils

I also have had luck with Fat Han. I know the interwebz states that Fat Han is no longer viable, but I try to reach my own conclusions...and so far Fat Han is fine on the table. I even have Luke Gunner on him, he's sitting at 146 points, hahahaha!!! But R2-D2, Chewie, and a Rigged Cargo Chute have kept him alive so far. His wingmate, Elusive/Chopper Porkins is a BEAST. He clogs up the middle doing T-Roll after T-Roll, regenerating shields and blocking/shooting. Han flies around the table edge, just like in 1e. Evade or Boost, Luke can handle turret rotation or Force tokens.

Han: Trick Shot, R2-D2, Chewie, Rigged Cargo Chute, Falcon Title, Luke Gunner

Porkins: Elusive, Chopper, S-Foils

Trick Shot is hard to proc, base is so large! Considering dropping Chewie and RCC for an Engine Upgrade, but only had to Boost to get out of R1 Fenn shots so far...but the list is kind of 1e Easy Mode Han again. Just expensive!

The falcon is my favourite ship as well and it was the first thing I put on the board in 2.0. The incarnation I was flying from the get go was this;

Han Solo - Trick Shot, Lando Calrissian, Kanan Jarrus - 112pts

Mechanically its great, but the cost is just too high for what it does. Good flying always betters your chances but large ships are one aspect of 2.0 I consider objectively bad right now. Large ships are too easy a target for your opponent with that many points invested and all of my opponents agreed after our matches. They're just big point pinatas that can't defend themselves well enough to be worth it.

With the relative cost of all the other rebel ships as well, you can't even fit solid wingmates in to take advantage of your opponent chasing the big juicy (falcon) whale. That being said all it needs is a point reduction. Mechanically the Falcon is perfectly good. As others have said, wait out the point balance and you should be able to fly it again in the future with better results.

As for what you can do now; my suggestion is play generics. X-wings are a fantastic chassis, so are Y-wings. Play something 'dumb' and get some wins on the board, then slowly experiment. U-wings are surprisingly decent in 2e, most people haven't touched them yet as the bad taste of 1e U-wings is still lingering.

I'm currently flying 3 ion Y-wings and a support U-wing and I haven't dropped a game yet. The other factions aces are just so much more efficient, other than playing Luke, the rebels just don't stack up now. Ride that wave, play generics and go back to basics. That's my 2 cents.

I think it’s popping up a bit more now, but I wanted to point out that my use of that gif on the first page wasn’t intended as a “fly Luke.” I literally meant use the force. Kanan is worth his points in crew, and the pilot isn’t terrible. Luke is one of the few Rebel pilots seeing the table. Ezra doesn’t have incredible chassis to fly him on, and as such is the a bit of an exception. And usually when you’re payong for a turret and VetTurretGunner, you want the rest of the ship’s built pretty light, so adding a stress-relying ability doesn’t belp tons.

Thank You Everyone for all the great replies! Some great advice, lists and observations!

I appreciate the support and the discussion. ??

I am mainly surprised how much un-learning I have to do to wrap my head around the new stuff. ? I am also comparing how much I’ve learned in less than 3 months of 2.0 to almost 3 years of 1.0...

I’ve got a lot of learning to do and that is a happy problem. ??

What I tested concerning rebels:

Ibtisam Chopper Elusive, Norra Juke Jyn R3, Magva Tactical Officer with flanking Sabine Tie Trick Shot.

3 Medium bases with hit points, rear arcs, Magva debuffing, cheap regen on Ibtisam.

I do not like flying K-wings myself, so I have not tested it, but one of them with barrage rockets forward and arc pointed sideways covers a huge area.

16 hours ago, SOTL said:

Rebels are garbage, just total garbage. At the moment they're boring and bad, and even if they change the points to make them good they'll still be boring.

Play a different faction, Rebels are just a write-off.

Such narrow perspective.

U think of rebels , think of garbage , total garbage .

U think of them at the moment gives u a bad feeling, a bad mood.

Maybe THEY change points, according to your wishes , then, maybe , U r willing to play them.

Seems to me that a GAME, wich is obviously a secondary -reality to u, unleash the infantile parts in human mind ,wich leads to false assumptions ,that powercreep and only high- effiencies have value and therefore the Right to be played.

They'd have to do more than change the points.

37 minutes ago, Smaeks said:

wich leads to false assumptions ,that powercreep and only high- effiencies have value and therefore the Right to be played.

'cos all you dream about in an 1v1 competitive game is to start with a huge efficiency difference between your pieces and your opponent's. So fun.

34 minutes ago, Giledhil said:

'cos all you dream about in an 1v1 competitive game is to start with a huge efficiency difference between your pieces and your opponent's. So fun.

Normative.

Based on the fact that listbuilding, start positioning,maneuvering ,dice , etc,etc have almost endless posibilities and interfering the efficiency constantly and fluidly.

I would agree on the point that big ships are weak because they die just so **** quickly. My experience with the Falcon, Scum or Rebel, flying myself or against. It dies too quickly.

Rebels are fine. They're just a slimmer faction than the others. I don't think you have as many "real" options but there are some. This list is pretty good:

Wedge - servo

Jan - title, trick shot

Dutch - proton torpedoes

Blue squadron (X-Wing) - servo

It hits pretty hard, doesn't require tight formation flying, and has synergies but each ship is powerful on its own, too. It's a good meat-and-potatoes kind of list that you can practice with to sharpen up your fundamentals.

I like to start Dutch and the blue squadron in a corner with Wedge and Jan in the middle. Practice coordinating your whole list on the turn Dutch needs to fire a torpedo. Practice blocking your target with the blue squadron and keeping Dutch back far enough to stay at range three but still hit the target. I like to flank with Wedge and Jan because they're soft. I usually bring them up the middle and turn them in the turn I want to shoot Dutch's torpedo off. If you can get three good shots off on your target, that should do a lot of damage. The blue squadron can usually k-turn the next turn and join up with Wedge and Jan to keep shooting hard. If Dutch is still alive, I usually break him off through obstacles and he meanders around to reload while getting another shot lined up. Just because you can maneuver to get a shot, don't waste time setting up weak attacks. Don't be afraid to fly around reloading or target locking to set up a better attack later. Make sure all your ships are involved on the turn Dutch is shooting torpedoes. Play defensively until you're ready to hit hard.

Make sure you're shooting at the right ships. Ask your opponents after the game if they thought you were prioritizing the right ships.

Also, the attack shuttle is okay but I don't think it's better than a generic X-Wing. You might want to try that out in place of the blue squadron if you don't like it.

You mentioned liking the falcon but I don't think any large base ship is playable right now.

Few good lists:

Wedge, Braylen Stram, Ten Numb, AP-5 and you still have 19 points for upgrades, B-wings are sleeper hits of 2.0, and with AP-5 you can coordinate them and still have stress ready for their abilities. This is simpler list, next one gives me huge headache every time I fly it, it has way too many options for every turn. List itself:

Wedge with proton torps, Braylen Stram, Jake Farrrel, Cassian Andor with tac officer. Looks innocent, until you coordinate Jake and get 6 actions out of that (2 focus, 2 barrel roll and 2 boost). Combo possibilities are endless, and that makes for very high skill ceiling list.

P.S lets consider 6 actions out of single coordinate a chess ridle

1 hour ago, Redblock said:

Looks innocent, until you coordinate Jake and get 6 actions out of that (2 focus, 2 barrel roll and 2 boost).

So Jake does a barrel roll as his normal action and gives his focus action to Wedge, who has closed s-foils and links into a boost, then Cassian co-ordinates Jake to a focus which you Vectored Thrusters into a boost that passes a focus action to Braylen who links into a barrel roll?

I mean, I guess that's actually 3 focuses, 2 barrel rolls and 2 boosts but I don't see how else the co-ordinate matters, or how else you get round Jake's required order of actions and taking stress.

Assuming you're using the X and B linked actions, you can actually get 2 focuses, 2 barrel rolls and 2 boosts out of just Jake (barrel roll, pass focus to Wedge who links to a boost, Jake boosts, passes focus to Braylen who links to a barrel roll)

Seems immensely complicated and super reliable on three different ships all being range 1 and all wanting and having room to do all those repositions.

LIke I said, hellishly hard to fly And has skill ceiling through the roof

1 hour ago, Redblock said:

P.S lets consider 6 actions out of single coordinate a chess ridle

Or we could consider it something you can't do. You know since you're only allowed to perform any specific action only once a round.

Expand your mind, you can give actions to 3 different ships with single coordinate

13 minutes ago, Redblock said:

Expand your mind, you can give actions to 3 different ships with single coordinate

? Or we could not play silly word games and create the possibility of confusing people about how the rules work.

Jake can not boost and barrel roll twice so not 2 focus, 2 boost, 2 barrel roll no matter what math you use to add it up.

Okay didn't really read Guac's post. So I'm a bit out of line with this post. Yes, crazy difficult to do and seems useful only in very narrow circumstances. Does create the possibility of giving the X-wing and the B-wing double mods.

8 hours ago, AceWing said:

You mentioned liking the falcon but I don't think any large base ship is playable right now.

Three Lambdas was rather fun, though admittedly wrong faction.

Here's a fun Rebel list I flew, though it's definitely not top-tier, or anything even remotely close.

T-65 X-wing - •Luke Skywalker - 64
•Luke Skywalker - Red Five (62)
R4 Astromech (2)
Servomotor S-foils (Open) (0)

T-65 X-wing - •Wedge Antilles - 56
•Wedge Antilles - Red Two (52)
Predator (2)
R4 Astromech (2)
Servomotor S-foils (Open) (0)

RZ-1 A-wing - Green Squadron Pilot - 40
Green Squadron Pilot - (34)
Daredevil (3)
Homing Missiles (3)

RZ-1 A-wing - Green Squadron Pilot - 40
Green Squadron Pilot - (34)
Daredevil (3)
Homing Missiles (3)

Total: 200/200

View in the X-Wing Squad Builder

Ok, I will try going slow, so you can follow U-wing at skill 3 gives coordinate to Jake, Jake does barrel roll (1), Jake gives focus to Wedge (2) Wedge does his linked boost (3), Jake now does his boost from ship ability (4) , gives focus to Brailen (5) Brailen does his barrel roll linked to focus (6). After that Jake does his maneuver, its green, so he also takes focus, just for fun