I’ve been playing X-Wing for about 3 years and I’ve had a lot of fun with this game! I was super excited for the changes in 2.0!

But now that it’s here I’ve been frustrated with how slowly I’m learning all the new cards and mechanics. I’m struggling to find a Rebel list that I like and I feel like I haven’t even been competitive in most of my 2.0 games so far.

I’m pretty sure that I just need to get more games in and find a list that works. Flying the Falcon was one of my favorite things in X-Wing and I’m sad at how awful Han is. I’ve given up on the Falcon but still have trouble being competitive with X-Wings and Y-Wings as well...

My local group has a lot of imperial players and I know that Rebels aren’t in the best place at the moment relative to the big hitters the Empire has available.

This post is just to vent a little. I know I’ll be having fun again soon but I am struggling to enjoy the game at this point.

My flying has been bad, my rolls have been terrible, I don’t know what my opponents lists do, and I can’t seem to build a list that works for me!

It’s hard to be a noob with a game I’ve been playing for 3 years!

I’ll dry my tears and pick my first world problems up off the floor now...

Thanks for being cool X-Wing. Now I just need to find out how to be cool 2.0...

? ?

Fly Scum or Empire first, as they are far more forgiving, have fewer cascaded effects, and can run with minimal upgrades. I competitively fly Empire with some decent proficiency and until recently I have sucked hard with rebels.

Venting is good, man. Don't let anybody **** on you for wanting to get this off your chest. And I'm feeling you, although it's the increased role of dice variance that's got me increasingly frustrated.

And you know what? Keep flying Han. Just tell your opponent that they too have to fly at least one large base ship. Apart from Lando's Falcon. All the other large base ships are equally overcosted, so they will be equally handicapped. And then when the points are adjusted, you'll be ready and practiced.

If you want to fly Rebels, I’ve actually had a little luck with double Uwings, one with Jyn and both with perceptive copilot. Basically they each get a focus/evade token stack, and I put Juke on them to help mess with the enemy. Fill in with a t65 or whatever else you’d like.

I have heard that selfless Bwings and Biggs works almost like four ship rebels did in 1.0 - May be a useful trick for you.

I think the biggest thing is to figure out what your opponents list does well, and then try to not play into that trap. Selfless works great against redline by redistributing damage so a spike won’t knock a ship off the board, for example.

6 minutes ago, BenBot said:

My flying has been bad, my rolls have been terrible, I don’t know what my opponents lists do, and I can’t seem to build a list that works for me!

I like this statement, BenBot. This to me shows you're willing to accept some blame for poor performance, an important first step in getting better.

Rebels are definitely in an interesting spot in the list building areas. I've seen a few Rebel lists perform well, but nothing that can do so consistently. The matchups are hugely important, as is your execution on the map. Rebels don't seem to have obviously strong components (beyond Luke and Sabine, maybe Han) that can just go together and form a list, unlike the wonderful selection of Imperial pilots and the few really strong Scum pieces (4-LOM, Palob, Fenn Rau, Boba Fett and numerous Gunrunners.)

If you're faction locked to Rebels, all you can do is focus on improving your choices on the map. Pick something interesting and fun (win or lose) and just throw yourself against the wall repeatedly, trying different tactics to see which style works best for you. By the by, a proton torpedo based alpha list isn't a terrible choice.

Hey!

As a rebel player you have 3 options.

1. Learn to play Super Luke or Kanan Han well. They are both very good. Near Boba tier.
2. Run a Damage Mitigation heavy list with Selflessness, Biggs, and things like Magva, Lowhrick, Fenn, Norra.
3. Run "Alpha" Strike Lists that everyone else is running...Wedge, Thane, etc...this is the hardest of the three options.

4 Ship Rebel lists are kinda the sweet spot, not strictly in formation. Other stuff can work though.

Try this Han out (And by try I mean like 25 games until you find its limits). Pair with Sabine/Blount, a pile of z95s, or 70 pts of something you like.

Or try this.

Switch up for Luke, Sabine, Blount+ 1 more ship as you get more comfortable with Supernatural. The most important thing you can do as a Rebel player is to practice how to make Supernatural unfair for your opponent. Basically pick very generic moves and then just go the place that results in the least damage for Luke so he gets to the end game. Its fun for the super Luke player and its legitimately good. Hes like an even more tanky Whisper with the Jyn evade. Eventually add regen to Luke.

Above starts at 182 pts. Fill in upgrades as you see fit. It should be good enough to win you some not every game against most 2.0 list. But it does require practice to take full advantage of Luke. Main thing is avoid running a Rebel list that doesnt have some amt of defensive mechanics or regen. The offensive Rebel lists can work and have occasionally but the odds arent in your favor if your not using what Rebels are good at.

So, long story short, I found myself in a similar situation at the beginning of 2.0. I realized that I needed to git gud and that the lense by which I was viewing my games was just too flawed to make the lists I was building work, so I started from zero:

This list helped a lot because it eschews things that interfere with learning basic skills like super aces with all the upgrades or lots of combo-riffic builds. It forces the user to use basic piloting skill to read the battlefield and your opponent and set up a proper turn 0 to define the engagement area along with a host of other skills like controlling the engagement speed to ensure you get the torps off and identifying proper trading opportunities. If you want to git gud, you have to start at the bottom and build a solid foundation. For Rebel players in particular, because they don't have the obvious and easy power pieces, this skill set is far more essential because you'll find yourself fighting the efficiency curve moreso than other factions. Look for gameplay solutions to problems and not listbuilding ones. I've beat opponents with this list that massively outclassed me and, while it's not the best, I think it will help a lot to adjust your mindset going forward.

Rebels are garbage, just total garbage. At the moment they're boring and bad, and even if they change the points to make them good they'll still be boring.

Play a different faction, Rebels are just a write-off.

I'm very happy with Rebels atm to be honest. I have all factions to my disposal but keep coming back to Rebels as I like a lot how they play.

The HWK with title is really strong. X-Wings are a lot of fun to fly and a very good chassis over all. And Y-Wings are not very popular but I like them soo much!

I played this recently in a tournament

Wedge Antilles (52)
Swarm Tactics (3)
R4 Astromech (2)
Servomotor S-foils (0)

Gray Squadron Bomber (32)
Proton Torpedoes (9)

“Dutch” Vander (42)
Proton Torpedoes (9)

Kyle Katarn (38)
Crack Shot (1)
Moldy Crow (12)

Total: 200

View in Yet Another Squad Builder 2.0

I went 3-1 and only lost a game that I was almost sure to win because in the last round every roll was against me (Wedge only rolling 1 Hit with TL, Kyle only rolling 1 Hit with Focus and so on...)
The list can do a lot of damage in the initial joust: you get 2 Proton Torpedoes with TL and Focus, one of them at Initiative 6 along with a shot from Wedge.

Also I've seen an interesting list with Wedge, Luke, Thane and Sabine that won a large tournament if I remember correctly.

Rebels are not in a bad spot atm. Only if you want them to be and just stop playing them.

unfortunately rebels are an uphill battle. they just don't have the action efficiency of ships in other factions... like Redline, Tie Phantoms, Boba Fett, Fenn Rau, 4LOM, Palob....

but a few really good pieces to build around for Rebels are:

HWK 290 - Jan Ors - Jyn Erso, Moldy Crow - Jan is super solid, this is the lightest build I will take with her, but if I can fit it engine upgrade and trickshot will make it's way on there real fast. She can be an end game beast and is an amazing support piece to start. She is her own tool kit. Keep her behind the front line and protect her. Often she is my last ship and is pretty dangerous in the end game, especially with EU. double focus evade most turns throughout the game. Jam action during the end game duel if needed to really mess things up. An okay dial. She's solid!

Sabine Wren - Attack Shuttle - Composure - Sabine is a token stacking machine, especially with composure. before you move you get a free boost or roll, purposefully fail that get a focus, move and take your evade. Or, dial a blue, do a pre roll into a red evade and then clear stress and take a focus.

Luke Skywalker - X-Wing - Super Natural, R2 Astro - I rarely take torps, but thats cus I almost always take Jan and I'd rather have a bid with super Luke. He needs no introduction as he is one of the best pieces in the game.

Jake Farrel - A-wing - Crackshot, Proton Rocket - Jake takes a lot of finesse but is actually a really fun and efficient supporting piece. His ability is not once per turn, so use that! Roll, take a focus yourself, then boost and allow a friendly within R1 to take a focus as well. Use him as a flanker/harasser to distract the enemy and try and pull agro. Works surprisingly well, especially with the procket threat. Crackshot is there once the procket is gone

AP5 - Sheathapiede - R4 astro - AP5 is some of the best 30 points you can spend. essentially adv sensors for anyone in your list, and the best part is he can coordinate even if his buddy has 1 stress token. the 1 reverse is a fun block tool too. I actually use intimidation on him as a blocker and it's hilariously fun.

Benthic 2 Tubes - U-Wing - Adv. Sensors, Perceptive Co-Pilot, Jyn Erso - yes it's expensive, but a token stacking machine that can also help support his friends.

3 minutes ago, Wiredin said:

Sabine  Wren     - Attack Shuttle - Composure - Sabine is a token stacking machine, especially with composure. before you move you get a free boost or roll, purposefully fail that get a focus, m  ove and take your evade. Or, dial a blue, do a pre roll into a red evade and then clear stress and take a focus. 

That’s an interesting choice... I’ve only seen her with Debris Gambit or Juke, personally.

15 minutes ago, SOTL said:

Rebels are garbage, just total garbage. At the moment they're boring and bad, and even if they change the points to make them good they'll still be boring.

Play a different faction, Rebels are just a write-off.

Jan Ors (42)
Moldy Crow (12)

Braylen Stramm (50)

Wedge Antilles (52)
Swarm Tactics (3)
Proton Torpedoes (9)

AP-5 (30)

Total: 198

View in Yet Another Squad Builder 2.0

Seen this list, yet? Won a small tournament with some very good players I went to. Incidentaly it's what I'd recommend OP try out.

38 minutes ago, SOTL said:

Rebels are garbage, just total garbage. At the moment they're boring and bad, and even if they change the points to make them good they'll still be boring.

Play a different faction, Rebels are just a write-off.

But what if I like to run into a brick wall?

Over and over again...

Head first... ?

Surely there's light at the end of the tunnel that is not an oncoming Kavil train. The rebels did nothing wrong. They don't deserve to be bad! Except you know... fat Han, regen, stresscontrol, Miranda, Lowhrick, Biggs, Fenn, Superdash, Nymanda, Ghost-Fe... you know what never mind


Seriously though, I want to fly my zerg infested A-Wings in competitive tournaments. Get on it FFG.

25 minutes ago, SpiderMana said:

That’s an interesting choice... I’ve only seen her with Debris Gambit or Juke, personally.

yea its something we came across a couple of weeks ago and I won't run it any other way now. more versatile than Debris Gambit for sure for the same price.

6 minutes ago, Polda said:

Seriously though, I want to fly my zerg infested A-Wings in competitive tournaments. Get on it FFG.

you and me both!

A fun list to try with A-wings that has been solid for me in casual, not tournament tested is:

2 Green Sq Awings with Crackshot/Procket

2 Red Vet X-wings with crackshot/servo

1 Z95 Tala w/Crackshot

super super fun

make boxes with it, watch people fly into boxes. launch prockets, laugh.

it took me nearly two full months to get the swing of the new edition. I was definitely one of the better players in my small area (not really saying much) but after the new edition. I had about a 10% win ratio for a while. it takes some time to break the 1st editon way of thinking. keep at it, keep flying what you like but make adjustments in all aspects of the game. You'll get there.

I haven't been doing too well either but we've had some confusion with not being fully versed in the new ruleset and Tobias Beckett totally messed my deployment one game and put me on the back foot from the jump. Dice have also not been kind and I've constantly been wrong on target lock or focus and my re-rolls have also come up empty. There are a lot more changes with 2nd Ed than are immediately apparent.

44 minutes ago, Admiral Deathrain said:

Jan Ors (42)
Moldy Crow (12)

Braylen Stramm (50)

Wedge Antilles (52)
Swarm Tactics (3)
Proton Torpedoes (9)

AP-5 (30)

Total: 198

View in Yet Another Squad Builder 2.0

Seen this list, yet? Won a small tournament with some very good players I went to. Incidentaly it's what I'd recommend OP try out.

Looks... ok I guess? A bit dull with Wedge the only guy in your team to have an interesting dial and he's being forced into formation by AP-5 and Swarm Tactics.

It actually compares particularly well to my Scum squad as I'm 4 similar ships.

AP5 ---> Quadjumper (pretty comparable I guess. I'd prefer the Quad's tractor threat and funky dial but AP5 does stuff)
Jan Ors ---> Palob (both are good HWK pilots, Palob's probably better)
Wedge ---> Kavil (both torp threat, Kavil has in-built double mods from Han Gunner and a turret that pumps out loads of red dice)
Braylen ---> 4-LOM (no comparison vs a double-action preposotioning, jamming, red-stopping, stress-giving love machine like 4-LOM)

I had to adjust a bit too coming back. Mind you id been off in Armada land for two years so I was rusty to the harder competitive scene anyway, and my area is notoriously tough competition. I did however with help recently come too this list and got 2nd out of 14 with it recently. Trying it again this weekend.

Z-95-AF4 Headhunter - •Lieutenant Blount - 30
•Lieutenant Blount - Team Player (30)

T-65 X-wing - •Wedge Antilles - 61
•Wedge Antilles - Red Two (52)
Proton Torpedoes (9)
Servomotor S-foils (Open) (0)

BTL-A4 Y-wing - •“Dutch” Vander - 51
•“Dutch” Vander - Gold Leader (42)
Proton Torpedoes (9)

A/SF-01 B-wing - •Ten Numb - 58
•Ten Numb - Blue Five (50)
Advanced Sensors (8)

Total: 200/200

View in the X-Wing Squad Builder

Let's see if the app works hahahah edit:holy crap it does

2 minutes ago, SOTL said:

Looks... ok I guess? A bit dull with Wedge the only guy in your team to have an interesting dial and he's being forced into formation by AP-5 and Swarm Tactics.

It actually compares particularly well to my Scum squad as I'm 4 similar ships.

AP5 ---> Quadjumper (pretty comparable I guess. I'd prefer the Quad's tractor threat and funky dial but AP5 does stuff)
Jan Ors ---> Palob (both are good HWK pilots, Palob's probably better)
Wedge ---> Kavil (both torp threat, Kavil has in-built double mods from Han Gunner and a turret that pumps out loads of red dice)
Braylen ---> 4-LOM (no comparison vs a double-action preposotioning, jamming, red-stopping, stress-giving love machine like 4-LOM)

It is easy to underestimate its spike damage, you pretty much always remove a ship in the first exchange. Basic idea is to use Braylens Focus -> Roll to get double mods, coordinate Wege to have double mods on him, take a TL on Jan to also have double mods on her. Counters low agi pretty hard. With Punishers being pretty popular around here, that is worth a fortune!

1 hour ago, cybu said:

I'm very happy with Rebels atm to be honest. I have all factions to my disposal but keep coming back to Rebels as I like a lot how they play.

The HWK with title is really strong. X-Wings are a lot of fun to fly and a very good chassis over all. And Y-Wings are not very popular but I like them soo much!

I played this recently in a tournament

Wedge Antilles (52)
Swarm Tactics (3)
R4 Astromech (2)
Servomotor S-foils (0)

Gray Squadron Bomber (32)
Proton Torpedoes (9)

“Dutch” Vander (42)
Proton Torpedoes (9)

Kyle Katarn (38)
Crack Shot (1)
Moldy Crow (12)

Total: 200

View in Yet Another Squad Builder 2.0

I went 3-1 and only lost a game that I was almost sure to win because in the last round every roll was against me (Wedge only rolling 1 Hit with TL, Kyle only rolling 1 Hit with Focus and so on...)
The list can do a lot of damage in the initial joust: you get 2 Proton Torpedoes with TL and Focus, one of them at Initiative 6 along with a shot from Wedge.

Also I've seen an interesting list with Wedge, Luke, Thane and Sabine that won a large tournament if I remember correctly.

Rebels are not in a bad spot atm. Only if you want them to be and just stop playing them.

That's very similar to a list that I plan on bringing to a tourney (have had some good success with it aside from Wedge not rolling anything in some games). https://raithos.github.io/?f=Rebel Alliance&d=v5!s!5:132,134,-1,-1,142:;54:132,-1,164:;27:132,-1,136,-1,-1,-1,-1:;30:-1,136,-1,-1,-1,-1:&sn=Alpha&obs=

So I have flown Rebels more in 2.0 than in 4+ years in 1.0. So a few things I am learning.

1. Rebels require patience and planning.

2. Choices matter more and are not as obvious for Rebels.

3. The Skill set for Rebels varies much more than Imperials based on the ship(s) being used.

4. You need a list that that you can change your strategy on the fly or even just based on your matchup comfortably.

So an example of a list that I am having success with is this:

Heff Tobber : Intimidation, Tactical Officer

Wedge Antillies : Marksmanship, Proton Torps, S-foils R4 Astromech

2x Blue Squadron Escort : S-foils, R4 Astromech

So at first it looks like Heff is a straight blocker. Against a list that has a lower ship count he is used that way. Against a swarm he wants to slow roll and use his coordination to assist in avoiding blocks or have mods if a ship does get blocked. The Blue Squadrons are mostly there for flanking, and focus fire. They can change rolls though and become blockers or just create a distraction. Wedge is the jouster, though I have used him simply as a decoy .

Great example. Against a Leebo/Roark list Wedge was a decoy taking fire. Heff Jammed up Leebo denying him tokens and the Blues just at things up. Against a Soontir/Turr/Saber/Rhymer, Heff was a Turret creating a wider area for the Intercepters to try to avoid while making use of his coordinate ability to help make things difficult for the sabers and Turr, and Soontir. Wedge was simply used to chase Rhymer out of the fight, only to turn back in and flank the Intercepters.

So I would ask what does your current list look like. You mentioned liking Han, so let’s see his load out you’re using. Then the community can help with ideas to flesh it out adjust or just give you better strategies.

Lots of good advice here. Rebels have to stick together! I've told myself to stick to one faction until the start of the new year, so when the game dropped, I chose Rebels. Holy smokes what a slog!

It IS harder for us, but you just have to stick to it. Having more losses than wins is going to be the norm for a while. You have to be more clever, more disciplined and tenacious to be a successful Rebel player.

You can do it!

---------------------

I'd like to echo what some folks have said: you like flying Han? Keep at it. Learn that ships abilities inside and out. Try different load outs to suss out what works best for you. Try every different ship as a wing-mate. Try different YT-1300 pilots too. You chose a difficult puzzle to solve, but you will be the best Falcon pilot in your area, bar none.

Another thing I'd like to add is that I feel you should practice on your own at home. You can use a simulator like Vassal, Table-Top Simulator, Fly Casual or whatever else is out there, or go with the real deal and get your ships out on the dining table or floor. There's no substitute for experience.

Good luck. See you in the space lanes.

Lol. I love whenever its mentioned that rebel are bad, all these people come out of the woodwork with "Well I personally don't think they're bad, you just have to do [XYZABC] and be clairvoyant a better pilot and hope the planets align, then Reb's are just fine! For example I fly..."

No they are bad, lol. That is the definition of bad. There's two archetypes (3 ship alpha and 4 ship salad) that are sorta-good but have a high skill ceiling, and that's it. If that isn't for you, save yourself heartache and switch factions until the re-balance hits.

Some of us don't want to switch factions. Part of being a Rebel is being the underdog.