Hello All,

I was wondering if there is any interest in a Blood Bound-inspired (vampire-themed) LCG? Rumors had it that FFG tried to acquire the World of Darkness license (Vampire: The Masquerade) but [somethingsomething] was ultimately unable.

IDK about you guys, but I think vampires are cool and despite White Wolf and Paradox Interactive trying to get Vampire: The Masquerade 5th Edition RPG going, I have a lot of reservations about that IP and setting. I think (wonder) if it would be viable (profitable) to make a game inspired by Vampire: The Eternal Struggle (VTES) using FFG's Blood Bound IP. (Obviously, this would require developing the Blood Bound IP... and maybe even changing the name?)

Some of you may know that Richard Garfield, the man behind original NetRunner and Magic: The Gathering, also created VTES. Now, I've played VTES but the card designs are a far cry from the ingenuity of FFG's LCG designers, and the game that is touted as being the best multiplayer political game by its fans has basically left the political aspect of the game by the wayside. In other words, in the average 5-player game, you might have one player playing a 'political' deck, while the other four are playing weenie rush or stealth-bleed (both decks trying to oust players as quickly as possible). Maybe one brave soul is trying to play a tool-box style deck. Of course, as in most multiplayer game there will be table-talk as people try to weasel their way out of a situation by offering favors and promising not to do such and such, but the actual political mechanics are rarely present or used.

Furthermore, VTES, as far as I can tell, has not innovated much or course-corrected from Garfield's problematic / questionable design decisions. Now, I'm not ragging on ol' Richie G, he's a great designer, but it's safe to say that A:NR was improved by FFG's designers. Likewise, MTG's modern designers (such as Mark Rosewater) have improved on Richard's original vision, cutting some iffy rules, simplifying some things, adding bits here and there for clarity, etc. To make matters worse, VTES is essentially blood bound (hehe) to the VTM setting and lore... which as great as it is also has a lot of conceptual problems that I won't get into unless pressed. That said, I do think the rules of VTES are too cool for the setting; NetRunner was improved by adding the Android universe to it, I think rules like those of VTES could be improved by a setting other than Vampire: The Masquerade's.

So could / should / would FFG look at VTES' rules and VTMs setting, and learn from it, and develop their own vampiric IP as a future multiplayer-oriented politicking LCG? I would love one.

Pros:

• Specifically Multiplayer : While FFG does have a few competitive LCGs and two co-op LCGs, they have yet to produce a specifically multiplayer LCG (intended for 4-7 players, lets say.)
• Political Maneuvering : Most LCGs and CCGs are dudes fighting dudes. ANR was radically different. Maybe this Vampire LCG with its emphasis on multiplayer politics could be super innovative too.
• Vampire Themed : White Wolf and Paradox Interactive don't own the concept of vampires, nor different types of vampires, or vampire powers, or even the idea that vampires rule modern society behind the scenes from the shadows (interestingly, that concept is not what they call The Masquerade, which is just the idea that "monsters live among us in the modern world"...). Vampires in the modern (or even the future era - Android Vampire, anyone?) is significantly different from 1920s America, Rokugan, or A Galaxy Far Far Away.
• Different Psychographics : I do not think the overlap between the people who like LotR, ANR, Arkham Horror LCG, or L5R would be greater than 50% if that much. I don't want FFG to cannibalize it's player-base. I do think that vampires are thematically different enough to appeal to a different core audience. Multiplayer (non-dueling) competitive gameplay pushes this further. Likewise, efforts taken to appeal to female gamers would be interesting. The market is overwhelming male-dominated but vampires, historically, have appealed greatly to female audiences. It would be interesting to see if that holds true.
• Lore Deposits : There is so much inspiration to draw from with vampires stories going back centuries, and, best of all, FFG would not be weighed down by a twenty-year-old "metaplot".

Cons:

• New Art Assets : FFG probably couldn't recycle a lot of art, unlike with their Arkham Horror property. Maybe not a big deal, considering FFGs art is generally amazing. VTES's art is mostly mediocre, I'm sad to say.
• Competition : There is now a company called Black Chantry founded by veteran VTES players trying to keep their game alive. BC is beholden to WW which is beholden to Paradox Interactive. All three would probably be peeved at someone else trying to move into the vampire scene.
• Viability : Is it financially viable? I'm not sure. I do think it would be cool though.

Anyways, comment and tell me below, like, share, subscribe, etc, etc.

Back in the day, Christian Petersen (at the time CEO of FFG) posted on BGG that the company had the rights for VTES, and they passed, stating clearly that we won't be seeing a VTES re-do done by FFG (now or ever)

On 11/23/2018 at 6:35 PM, Julia said:

Back in the day, Christian Petersen (at the time CEO of FFG) posted on BGG that the company  had the rights for VTES, and they passed, stating clearly that we won't be seeing a VTES re-do done by FFG (now or ever).

I'm not asking for a VTES re-do. There are things that could be learned from VTES, certainly, but I don't want a VTES reboot (comparable to the L5R or ANR reboots.) When I said "inspired by VTES and VTM" I meant it in the same way the Android universe is "inspired by" all the cyberpunk settings that came before it. Thus I'm asking wether a LCG based around multiplayer politics with vampires as the theme would be a worthwhile venture, because I think it would.

I would like to see FFG develop Blood Bound as a vampiric IP (although as mentioned, I'm not a fan of the name) because I think there is a market out there. Vampires are cool, vampires as a theme is kinda rare (certainly not as common as generic swords-and-elves fantasy), and think there is space in FFGs roster for a multiplayer LCG, and the political aspect is something FFG has only really explored in Twilight Imperium as far as I know. Much like FFGs co-op LCGs, you could have one major buyer purchase the core and expansions, and then play the game with a group of people (4 to 7 people in this case.) The political aspect, I think, would appeal to players who aren't into number-crunching dueling card-games. There could be elements of hidden role (like Blood Bound), hidden information (like ANR), and other cool stuff, IDK.

But I think the entire World of Darkness setting is too troublesome and narrow and only serves as baggage to those who are not already fans of the setting or game. White Wolf and everything associated with them is on shaky ground, the company has gone under multiple times, the IP is decades old, ossified and torpid, and the setting posses a lot of conceptual problems. Maybe those are reasons FFG passed on VTES at the time, maybe not, but either way I think FFG should at least consider it (developing / creating their own vampiric IP.)

I guess there is no desire for such a game.

Which is sad because there are so few good vampire-themed games (video or board) out there. 💀

VTES is in the process of being resurrected; Black Chantry are going to have 4 new starter decks up and available as POD soon.

If you’re not keen on V5, there’s always V20, or Dark Ages.

On 12/9/2018 at 4:42 AM, Ersatz Nihilist said:

VTES is in the process of being resurrected; Black Chantry are going to have 4 new starter dec  ks up and available as POD soon.

If you’re not keen on V5, there’s always V20, or D  ark Age  s.

I don't want VTES though. I've played the game and it's got some good points, but the game has problems. I think FFG could do a better job developing their own IP and they could avoid all the problems by making an different, NEW game.

And whether its V5, V20, or Dark Ages or any other edition, the VTM setting has some appeal, but also is past it's prime and has a lot of conceptual problems and has a bunch of lore that's contradictory.

I made comparisons to VTES because that's really the only card-game about vampires that exists that's 1) more than a party game; 2) has the depth of your standard CCG/TCG. I'm suggesting FFG do what they did with the Dune-Twilight Imperium situation. They couldn't get the rights / license for Dune, so they developed their own IP - Twilight Imperium - that became one of their staple board games.