Ever since the Clonewars announcement I want to fly a swarm of Vultures, but with 2 agility and 3 hull, these babies are going to pop like ballons?!?

And there is still a cap of 8 ships maximum in 2.0 right? So lowering cost is not going to help..

Loading them up with munitions, is not going to help either cause it seems their highest initiative is 3 so they are going to pop before even shooting?

2 minutes ago, RedHotDice said:

And  there i  s still a cap of 8 ships maximum in 2  .0 right   ? 

Not that I know of, but tournament rules could be different.

Ive certainly been assuming that these will either be fieldable in bigger numbers, or have some gimmick that keeps them alive longer. They are able to share calculate tokens, so no matter which one you shoot at, it will probably have modded defense at least.

Just now, Forgottenlore said:

Not that I know of, but tournament rules could be different.

Ive certainly been assuming that these will either be fieldable in bigger numbers, or have some gimmick that keeps them alive longer. They are able to share calculate tokens, so no matter which one you shoot at, it will probably have modded defense at least.

True, but with only sharing a calculates (not focus) even flying a tight swarm y're run out of calculate tokes fast..

I had hoped for more of the Advanced Droid brain mechanic calculate token action economy.

You're gonna' be running them as cannon fodder, blockers, and list fillers. The real important units are Greivous, Maul, so on and so forth.

36 minutes ago, RedHotDice said:

True, but with only sharing a calculates (not focus) even flying a tight swarm y're run out of calculate tokes fast..

I had hoped for more of the Advanced Droid brain mechanic calculate token action economy.

Remember there is the Tactical Relay upgrades. Also, I would be shocked if none of the unique or semi-unique Vultures provided group boosts.

I agree with the others, they may be very low cost, like 18-20pt so you can run a mini-swarm of 5-6 of these badboys and still have points for a 80-100pt hero like Maul, or so cheap you might field 8 of the unique or semi-unique Vultures with upgrades which would be a whole new territory and quite interesting...

What if, and this is crazy right, but what if they had only shown us the Grappling Struts open?

And what if there was a wild universe where generally ships with multiple flight modes like the X-Wing and the U-Wing had increased agility on one side?

Wild, I know. But what if both those things were true and closed Grappling Struts probably offers +1 Agility?

3 minutes ago, Mangipan said:

What if, and this is crazy right, but what if they had only shown us the Grappling Struts open?

And what if there was a wild universe where generally ships with multiple flight modes like the X-Wing and the U-Wing had increased agility on one side?

Wild, I know. But what if both those things were true and closed Grappling Struts probably offers +1 Agility?

Don't be that way about it. **** I almost hope you're wrong entirely because of the way you delivered that.

42 minutes ago, Mangipan said:

What if, and this is crazy right, but what if they had only shown us the Grappling Struts open?

And what if there was a wild universe where generally ships with multiple flight modes like the X-Wing and the U-Wing had increased agility on one side?

Wild, I know. But what if both those things were true and closed Grappling Struts probably offers +1 Agility?

You're probably right, but you could have phrased this a bit differently. The passive aggressiveness is strong with one.

They also have named pilots which are spammable, we don't know what they do yet, maybe some boosts agility and others attack, they its up to you to decide which way to go with your list. I think they will be faily close to tie fighters in points. Yes there is one less green, but with the shared droid focus and ability to ignore rocks, they are probably going to be close.

I'm pretty positive this will be viable. It's designed to be.

2 hours ago, Mangipan said:

What if, and this is crazy right, but what if they had only shown us the Grappling Struts open?

And what if there was a wild universe where generally ships with multiple flight modes like the X-Wing and the U-Wing had increased agility on one side?

Wild, I know. But what if both those things were true and closed Grappling Struts probably offers +1 Agility?

Eesh, tone it back a bit, maybe?

I came here to say this, but with less pretension. There’s no reason for the struts to even be double-sided unless you lose something in flipping the card. A defensive bonus seemed likely, and I hadn’t even noticed their 2-agility.

2 hours ago, SpiderMana said:

.. . There’s no reason for the struts to even be double-sided unless you lose something in flipping the card. A defensive bonus seemed likely, and I hadn’t even noticed their 2-agility.

If this is the case, then with the missile slot, I'd put vultures at almost exactly the same cost as an Academy.

Maybe a point or two less than a TIE to leave room for those energy shells.

But that configuration isn't gonna cost extra points... because ALL vultures can walk and it's not an "upgrade" to the chassis.

And the bonus of such flexibility is just amazing. Plus, thematically, they were cheap and expendable...but not CHEAP. Like, droids are expensive little buggers.

So I would be okay if these generics, with a potential 3 Agility, are 20-23 points.

4 hours ago, Mangipan said:

What if, and this is crazy right, but what if they had only shown us the Grappling Struts open?

And what if there was a wild universe where generally ships with multiple flight modes like the X-Wing and the U-Wing had increased agility on one side?

Wild, I know. But what if both those things were true and closed Grappling Struts probably offers +1 Agility?

Completely uncalled for. Reign it in a bit, maybe?

18 minutes ago, AllWingsStandyingBy said:

Completely uncalled for. Reign it in a bit, maybe?

I get where he's coming from though. So many threads over the years saying something isn't viable or dead before we have all the info available.

6 hours ago, RedHotDice said:

True, but with only sharing a calculates (not focus) even flying a tight swarm y're run out of calculate tokes fast..

I had hoped for more of the Advanc  ed Droid brain mechanic calculate token action economy.

With Kraken, you should have 3 ships sitting on 2 calculate tokens each coming into the initial combat, plus one calculate each for the remaining ships. Combined with the token sharing ability of the Vulture Droids, the effect should be roughly equivalent to all of your ships having Glitterstim for a few rounds, but more efficient since the tokens can be spent wherever they are needed and then any extras from the round wont go to waste due to Kraken's ability. Combined with Energy-Shell Charges that should be pretty scary. It looks like the average calculate tokens spent per shot on a 3 dice attack is .75 ( source ). So you should theoretically be able to maintain good action economy for a while (until you lose enough ships, break formation, etc.)

Assuming unlimited calculate tokens (seems... shockingly realistic...):

Average damage on 2/3 dice is 1.5/2.25 (primary / ESC or range 1). As a reminder: TIE with focus + Howlrunner = 1.828, 2.684 at range one.

Your average damage output (1.875) from alternating ESC and primary is nearly identical to that. If "reload this card" means "and take a weapons disabled token", which it probably does, then average damage drops to 1.5 per round, with ESC-Reload-ESC. None of this is including the possibility of range 1 primary attacks, so the realistic average is higher than that. Throw ESC at range 2/3, zoom in for a range 1 primary, and then either die or zoom out and reload seems like the dream, I guess?

As for defense, against three dice with a focus - with a defensive focus, 3 agility averages 0.911 damage taken with a focus, or 1.591 without. Two agility is 1.457 taken with two calcs, 1.516 taken with one calc, or 1.943 taken with none.

So, two calc tokens (either from Kraken, or using one from a neighbor), one for offense and one for defense, pretty much pushes Energy Shell Vultures into Howlswarm territory.

The math on "if I enter combat with 4 Vultures, carrying a total of 7 calculates, and I have 4 ESC shots and take 3 focused three dice shots, how many calculates do I end the turn with" is too complicated for my current level of laziness but potentially interesting.

Did the Vulture droids have on-board AI? Otherwise, the ships should probably just sit on the table doing nothing until FFG releases some kind of Epic droid-control ship.

3 minutes ago, JJ48 said:

Did the Vulture droids have on-board AI? Otherwise, the ships should probably just sit on the table doing nothing until FFG releases some kind of Epic droid-control ship.

That has been a suggestion for Armada if they were to add droid fighters

1 minute ago, JJ48 said:

Did the Vulture droids have on-board AI? Otherwise, the ships should probably just sit on the table doing nothing until FFG releases some kind of Epic droid-control ship.

Depends on the droid 'generation'. The early Trade Federation ones were pure drones (or near enough) whilst later ones built during the war had more self-awareness. I refer you to Clone Wars: Storm over Ryloth

Quote

Battle Droid 1 : Look, it's RB-551. No wonder he got blasted. He's one of those older models programmed by a central computer.

Battle Droid 2 : Not like us; we're independent thinkers.

Battle Droid 1 : Roger, roger.

Battle Droid 2 : Roger, roger.

Battle Droid 1 : Roger, roger.

3 minutes ago, svelok said:

The math on "if I enter combat with 4 Vultures, carrying a total of 7 calculates, and I have 4 ESC shots and take 3 focused three dice shots, how many calculates do I end the turn with" is too complicated for my current level of laziness but potentially interesting. 

The expected consumption on attacks is .75 calculate tokens per 3 dice attack (roughly 42% of shots will have zero focus results to convert, 42% one, 14% two, 1.5% three) and for 2 dice on defense, you're spending an expected .37 calculate tokens per defense roll. So you're probably holding steady for the most part and the main impact on your token economy is losing ships or performing actions other than calculate, rather than any sort of token attrition.

Squinting at the photo in the Droid Fighter expansion I make out these ship abilities (square brackets = my inference):

I1 two-dot ship:
After an enemy ship in your [firing arc at] range 0-2 declares another [friendly] ship as the defender, you may [perform] a Calculate or Lock action.

I1 DFS-311 (unique):
At the start of the Engagement [phase] you may transfer 1 of your [calculate] tokens to another friendly [ship at] range 0-3.

I3 three-dot ship:
While you perform an attack [if the] defender is in your Bullseye, [you may change] 1 blank result [to a ...?]

All Droids: Networked Calculations ship ability:
While you defend or perform an attack, you may spend 1 Calculate token from a friendly ship at range 0-1 to change 1 Focus result to an Evade or Hit result.

1 minute ago, Transmogrifier said:

The expected consumption on attacks is .75 calculate tokens per 3 dice attack (roughly 42% of shots will have zero focus results to convert, 42% one, 14% two, 1.5% three) and for 2 dice on defense, you're spending an expected .37 calculate tokens per defense roll. So you're probably holding steady for the most part and the main impact on your token economy is losing ships or performing actions other than calculate, rather than any sort of token attrition.

Neat.

1 minute ago, Rossetti1828 said:

I1 two-dot ship:
After an enemy ship in your [firing arc at] range 0-2 declares another [friendly] ship as the defender, you may [perform] a Calculate or Lock action.

Holy **** I'm so in. Why can't I hold all these calculate tokens? Two of these can nearly fuel the whole swarm.

2 minutes ago, Rossetti1828 said:

I1 DFS-311 (unique):
At the start of the Engagement [phase] you may transfer 1 of your [calculate] tokens to another friendly [ship at] range 0-3.

Doesn't seem particularly useful for a swarm, but very interesting wingmate to an Infiltrator.

2 minutes ago, Rossetti1828 said:

I3 three-dot ship:
While you perform an attack [if the] defender is in your Bullseye, [you may change] 1 blank result [to a ...?]

Holy **** I'm so in. I'm not trapped in here with my calculate tokens, you're trapped in here with my passive mods.

It would make sense to be convert to an eyeball, rather than a hit, hmm. So 3x + 2x of the first ones would make for a pretty feisty 5 Vulture swarm.

13 minutes ago, Rossetti1828 said:

Squinting at the photo in the Droid Fighter expansion I make out these ship abilities (square brackets = my inference):

I1 two-dot ship:
After an enemy ship in your [firing arc at] range 0-2 declares another [friendly] ship as the defender, you may [perform] a Calculate or Lock action.

I1 DFS-311 (unique):
At the start of the Engagement [phase] you may transfer 1 of your [calculate] tokens to another friendly [ship at] range 0-3.

I3 three-dot ship:
While you perform an attack [if the] defender is in your Bullseye, [you may change] 1 blank result [to a ...?]

All Droids: Networked Calculations ship ability:
While you defend or perform an attack, you may spend 1 Calculate token from a friendly ship at range 0-1 to change 1 Focus result to an Evade or Hit result.

Are there any true generics, or do we have a hard limit of six?

1 minute ago, JJ48 said:

Are there any true generics, or do we have a hard limit of six?

There's I1 and I3 generics.