When does the capture happen here, before, after, or during the fight? I have a deck where I can combine this effect with Yxili-Marauder that gets +1 strength for every captured Æmber on it, and I wonder wether it gets that strength before the fight, fighting at the increased strength, during the fight, fighting at the current strength, but going up one strength before destruction, or after the fight, not getting it at all when destroyed. I suspect the latter, but the wording isn't as clear as it could be here, since to have the latter effect it could just say 'For the remainder of the turn, friendly creatures have Fight: Capture one Æmber'.

good question, I honestly don't know, send it in, I suppose. Interesting to see how this never mattered in my deck, but does in yours.

I would assume that you capture the aember as soon as you declare a fight and the creature is exhausted but before the damage is dealt. Otherwise it would be phrased “each time after a creature fights it captures 1 aember”. I can definately see where you are coming from.

I would actually assume it afterwards in the same way fight abilities work in conjunction with using a creature (pg7 from the rule book). Wherein the you don’t perform any Fight abilities until after you check to see if the creature is still alive. Otherwise they have the Before Fight text available.

3 minutes ago, Strange1 said:

I would actually assume it afterwards in the same way fight abilities work in conjunction with using a creature (pg7 from the rule book). Wherein the you don’t perform any Fight abilities until after you check to see if the creature is still alive. Otherwise they have the Before Fight text available.

That is my instinct, too, but as I said, the card could easily be worded like that, but specifically isn't.

..

1 hour ago, Strange1 said:

I would actually assume it afterwards in the same way fight abilities work in conjunction with using a creature (pg7 from the rule book). Wherein the you don’t perform any Fight abilities until after you check to see if the creature is still alive. Otherwise they have the Before Fight text available.

1 hour ago, Admiral Deathrain said:

That is my instinct, too, but as I said, the card could easily be worded like that, but specifically isn't.

Only that Take Hostages does not give a "Before Fight", "Fight" or "After Fight" ability.

Before and during don’t make as much sense as if the creature is destroyed the amber goes right back anyways. I get your point that it doesn’t use those words but I think after the fight is a reasonable and logical interpretation until you get something official.

1 hour ago, TheSpitfired said:

Before and during don’t make as much sense as if the creature is destroyed the amber goes right back anyways. I get your point that it doesn’t use those words but I think after the fight is a reasonable and logical interpretation until you get something official.

It definitly is the safe ruling I'd go for if I'd be playing now, but the text is vague enough that an official ruling would be appreciated.

I'd say after. Seems the most consistent with other rules. Now if it said, "While fitting," or, "Before fight," or, "During fight," or even, "Attacking creatures," things would be different.

On 11/13/2018 at 10:08 AM, TheSpitfired said:

Before and during don’t make as much sense as if the creature is destroyed the amber goes right back anyways. I get your point that it doesn’t use those words but I think after the fight is a reasonable and logical interpretation until you get something official.

Yes it does because that when the card says to do the action. It you want to fight with a creature that will die and give back the aember it just took, that was your choice . Take Hostages text still works as written. You caputre the aember as soon as the creature fights. The card doesn’t say to only do so if the creature survives.

Damage isn’t assigned immediately, you declare that a creature is going to fight, this triggers the ability causing it to capture an Amber. You then proceed to choose a target it’s fight and then resolve damage. If the creature dies the amber goes back.

When it captures is important because of, if no other card, Ether Spider. If your opponent has some æmber and the creature captured it immediately it would go to the creature first, then once it died it would go on Ether Spider instead of going back to the player's pool, potentially stopping them from forging a key.

On 11/13/2018 at 6:27 AM, Admiral Deathrain said:

When does the capture happen here, before, after, or during the fight? I have a deck where I can combine this effect with Yxili-Marauder that gets +1 strength for every captured Æmber on it, and I wonder wether it gets that strength before the fight, fighting at the increased strength, during the fight, fighting at the current strength, but going up one strength before destruction, or after the fight, not getting it at all when destroyed. I suspect the latter, but the wording isn't as clear as it could be here, since to have the latter effect it could just say 'For the remainder of the turn, friendly creatures have Fight: Capture one Æmber'.

If it gave them “Fight: blah” it wouldn’t apply if there were an effect that allowed them to fight without using Fight as an exhausted action, no?

14 hours ago, Hyperjayman said:

Yes it does because that when the card says to do the action. It you want to fight with a creature that will die and give back the aember it just took, that was your choice . Take Hostages text still works as written. You caputre the aember as soon as the creature fights. The card doesn’t say to only do so if the creature survives.

The difference here is that I’m basing the timing off an assumed “fight” keyword, as most creatures with fight abilities need to survive for them to trigger. You are basing your solution off an assumed “before fight” keyword, which is a lot more rare.

No one is questioning that the text works as written, we are questioning the timing. At this point I am presuming that Admiral Deathrain has submitted the question to the rules forum, and like you I hope an answer is received soon.

9 hours ago, Derrault said:

If it gave them “Fight: blah” it wouldn’t apply if there were an effect that allowed them to fight without using Fight as an exhausted action, no?

True, I am not aware of an effect like this existing, though.

The question is indeed submitted and should I get an answer I'll be sure to share it here.

2 hours ago, TheSpitfired said:

The difference here is that I’m basing the timing off an assumed “fight” keyword, as most creatures with fight abilities need to survive for them to trigger. You are basing your solution off an assumed “before fight” keyword, which is a lot more rare.

No one is questioning that the text works as written, we are questioning the timing. At this point I am presuming that Admiral Deathrain has submitted the question to the rules forum, and like you I hope an answer is received soon.

It would state that your creatures gain “Fight : Capture 1[A].” for the rest of the turn. Since it doesn’t the creature doesn’t have to survive to capture the aember. Take Hostages sets up a trigger for the rest of the turn, it checks for fight declaration. If yes, capture 1[A]. No waiting, it immediately since all it doing is looking for that trigger.

18 hours ago, Hyperjayman said:

It would state that your creatures gain “Fight : Capture 1[A].” for the rest of the turn. Since it doesn’t the creature doesn’t have to survive to capture the aember. Take Hostages sets up a trigger for the rest of the turn, it checks for fight declaration. If yes, capture 1[A]. No waiting, it immediately since all it doing is looking for that trigger.

Friend I feel like you are really stuck on the wrong part of my discussion. First off, by your own reasoning for disagreeing with me, I will disagree with you because for the card to work that way the card would state that your creatures gain "Before Fight: Capture 1[A]." Second: There is no point in capturing aember with a creature that is getting destroyed. IT GOES RIGHT BACK. It's an inconvenience. Are you really going to stop the game, take the aember from your opponent, put it on your creature, resolve the fight, and give the aember back? No, you're going to declare the fight, say "and I would capture the aember but the creature got destroyed so keep it."

In any situation other than the OP's extremely specific one the timing doesn't really matter. Using the effect practically with that Marauder is going to be tricky based on how much aember was already captured and on it in the first place, otherwise there are not too many creatures you are going to want to hit with the Marauder as even if it could get +1 power before or during the fight there is still a fair chance it gets destroyed.

All I'm trying to say with all that mess is that it is an extremely situational circumstance. I mean if we really want to split hares on this, then I would say to resolve the ability you have to look at the friendly creature and say "Did this creature fight?" Before the fight you have to answer no, the creature has not fought yet. During the fight you have to answer no because the creature is fighting. Only after the fight can you say "yes, this creature did fight" and steal the aember.

tl;dr Destroyed creatures shouldn't capture Aember. Wait for the ruling.

(Psst, Hey Deathrain, what's the card you use to activate the Marauder during a Sanctum turn? Combat Pheromones or Inspiration?)