When I play a card to "purge" something with a destroy ability like "Bad Penny", does Bad Penny's Destroyed ability trigger and thus put her back into the owner's hand?

The rules for "Destroyed" read as such:

When a card is destroyed, it is placed in its owner’s discard pile. If a card has a “Destroyed:” ability, the effect resolves automatically when the card is destroyed, immediately before it leaves play.

Anyone know the actual ruling or are we left to speculate?

If Bad Penny is purged she is removed from the game, the destroyed ability doesn’t happen. It’s not speculation to read the rules, and the rules for “Purged” read as such:

Purged:

When a card is purged, it is removed from the game and placed facedown beneath its owner’s identity card. Purged cards no longer interact with the game state in any manner.

If I had to guess Bad penny wouldn’t be returned to its owners hand because it’s being purged not destroyed since it never hits the discard pile.

PURGE (p11.):
When a card is purged, it is removed from the game and placed facedown beneath its owner’s identity card. Purged cards no longer interact with the game state in any manner.

Purge and Destroyed are two different keywords and one does not reference the other, so I would play them as tow separate effects.

I think it depends on how she's being purged.

The Dis artifact 'Annihilation Ritual' states that when a creature goes to the discard, it's purged. Thus, in that situation Bad Penny would never hit the discard (as the destroyed effect moves her to hand instead) and would never be purged. I know there are other cards that deal damage and purge a creature if it gets killed by it, in that situation she'd be purged instead of going to hand.

good one!!!

The Mars creature that lets you deal damage when you reap or fight and then purge if the creature is destroyed (not sure the name of the creature) also has some weird play with Bad Penny. I'm not sure of the order of operations there.

Purge wins. Even if you consider Bad Penny destroyed, she's destroyed as a consequence of being purged, and the purge rule is, "Purged cards no longer
interact with the game state in any manner." So Bad Penny's text won't be executed, that would be interacting with the game state in some manner.

Good catch, I think you are right - for Bad Penny it depends what is causing it to purge. For a card like Annhiliation Ritual I think you’re spot on, because it doesn’t go to the discard pile from play due to its destroyed ability.

We would have to see the exact wording of the card purging Bad Penny. It could be a case where the active player chooses order of triggers.

I have Annhiliation Ritual in my deck, I’ve seen it do terrible things (both to me and my opponent lol)!

I had a a very similar question. I had Mars' Biomatrix Backup upgrade attached to my Grenade Snib. My opponent hit it with Special Delivery's Omni ability. Do I get to archive it instead of purging? Does my opponent lose 2 Aember?

And more importantly, are there actually officials who are empowered to answer these questions definitively?

7 hours ago, player1296836 said:

And more importantly, are there actually officials who are empowered to answer these questions definitively?

Why yes there are, it’s pretty easy to find even, just look in the first post of the first sticky thread on this Keyforge forum. See, that wasn’t so hard now was it?

Thank you, Palpster ?

On 11/13/2018 at 12:02 AM, nungunz said:

The Mars creature that lets you deal damage when you reap or fight and then purge if the creature is destroyed (not sure the name of the creature) also has some weird play with Bad Penny. I'm not sure of the order of operations there.

I would love to know that too. We had the situation yesterday that this mars creature destroyed my Dis creature which has Destroyed : Gain 2 aember. Wouldn't this still trigger here as the mars creature says "If that damage destroyes that creature, purge it". So this means the creature still is destroyed and then purged, right? Otherwise there should be "purge it instead"

I also had a similar interaction question:

Let's read the rules:

Quote

DESTROYED When a card is destroyed, it is placed in its owner’s discard pile. If a card has a “Destroyed:” ability, the effect resolves automatically when the card is destroyed, immediately before it leaves play.

Quote

LEAVES PLAY If a card that is in play leaves play (is returned to hand or deck, destroyed, discarded, archived, or purged), all non-Æmber tokens and status cards on the card are removed, all upgrades on the card are discarded, and all lasting effects applied to the card expire. If a creature with Æmber on it leaves play, the Æmber is placed in the opponent’s Æmber pool. If a non-creature card with Æmber on it leaves play, the Æmber is returned to the general token pool. If a card has a “Leaves Play:” ability, the effect happens automatically immediately before the card leaves play

Quote

PURGE When a card is purged, it is removed from the game and placed facedown beneath its owner’s identity card. Purged cards no longer interact with the game state in any manner.

So to apply:

If the card says "purge card x", it gets purged, regardless of the order because even if it gets back to hand (or top of a pile or anything) it gets purged (getting back to the hand or whatever doesn't prevent the purge).

If the purge is requiring conditions (ie: The card being in the discard) then check if the condition applies.
In the case of Bad Penny for example, she would immediately before being destroyed ( Destroyed: says immediately before leaving play, and thus before being destroyed [ LEAVES PLAY ] and thus applying DESTROYED 's effect of going to the discard) go to the hand and therefore not meet the condition of going to the discard to get purged.

Wow that's a mouthful, but I hope it's clear enuff.