I’m really liking all these ideas that are dumping “epic” outright and making huge ships/huge ship ruleset standard overall.
Then add a format to the app: cinematic. In cinematic, we play 6x3, ramp up the points, and have objectives. I’d say like Armada but I have zero clue what those are like. I do know Legion, and that format works for me in terms of objective selection.
23 hours ago, ScummyRebel said:I’m really liking all these ideas that are dumping “epic” outright and making huge ships/huge ship ruleset standard overall.
Then add a format to the app: cinematic. In cinematic, we play 6x3, ramp up the points, and have objectives. I’d say like Armada but I have zero clue what those are like. I do know Legion, and that format works for me in terms of objective selection.
If FFG were planning on dumping epic, they shouldn't have announced that epic will be coming soon after the standard play release. If they did that, than it would have reduced their 2.0 player conversation rate. FFG money grubbers gonna do what money grubbers do. LIE>
10 minutes ago, Lace Jetstreamer said:If FFG were planning on dumping epic, they shouldn't have announced that epic will be coming soon after the standard play release. If they did that, than it would have reduced their 2.0 player conversation rate. FFG money grubbers gonna do what money grubbers do. LIE>
I think you missed the second half of that post with how huge ships would still be a thing, and how they’d come into play without it being a stepchild to standard.
1 minute ago, ScummyRebel said:I think you missed the second half of that post with how huge ships would still be a thing, and how they’d come into play without it being a stepchild to standard.
FFG confirmed Epic play. So if they cancel epic for whatever new format you propose, then they would have misrepresented what they told us about Epic.
On 11/11/2018 at 7:43 AM, EastCoast said:Impatience is good. It means there is still active interest in the game. Complete apathy is what should be concerning.
Nah hes right. Epic fans should just go away and stop buying. I'm sure less players engaged makes for a healthier game judging by how many in this forum want others to get out of their hobby.
16 minutes ago, Dabirdisdaword said:Nah hes right. Epic fans should just go away and stop buying . I'm sure less players engaged makes for a healthier game judging by how many in this forum want others to get out of their hobby.
I essentially have. However:
A. I wait 2 years until Epic shows up, and then when I finally decide to convert there are no conversion kits being manufactured anymore.
B. I convert now, and discover that Epic is as big of a joke as the app.
C. I trust a company that pooched the app and the blue line on the last Huge ship release and pray that it all works out.
All three are pretty lame options, given that I could give a fudge about Standard as a fall-back plan.
Edited by Darth MeanieOn 11/12/2018 at 5:35 AM, Azrapse said:Epic would need a redesign.
Some of the stuff that made epic ships unique has been moved to small and large ships, like the Jam, Reinforce and and Coordinate actions.
The mechanic of huge ships ramming a bunch of small ships always was silly and not really lore friendly. Capital ships behave more like backdrops for smaller ships rather than obstacles. They are basically landmarks with turrets. The instances where a small ships has been trampled by a huge ship in the setting is testimonial, and when it has happened, it has been because the smaller ships had been shot down already and was spinning out of control.
Small and large ships that overlap a huge ship should just move their base until they are at range 0 of it, touching whichever side of the huge base that was closer to the end of the template.
Huge ships that overlap smaller ships should cause the same effect to trigger on the smaller ships. They should just reposition until they are at range 0 of the huge ship after it moves. Just as if the huge ship bases were a warped zone of space.On the other hand, huge ships should always have a running reinforce token on both sections. These ships have much harder armor and a bunch of stray laser shots should not be a threat unless the attackers are totally ignored (But don't think this would make them too strong against swarms: the removal of trampling buffs swarms a lot against huge ships).
Finally, they would need to separate Epic from Huge ships. Epic should still be massing a bunch of ships (600 points in 2.0?), while huge ships should be playable at lower point totals. The usual 200 points for small and large, then extra 1 or 2 epic points. The transports would cost 1 point. The corvettes 2 points. Then you equip them with upgrades from the same pool of 200 points as you equip your small and large ships. The huge ships don't cost extra squad points. Only 1 or 2 epic points.
That would make people actually bring huge ships, while keeping the amount of upgrades in them, and the amount of small and large ships reasonable. The fewer amount of total ships and game effects to keep track of would translate to much shorter games.Of course, if you want to have extra long games, you could play 600 squad point games with additional epic points to purchase huge ships. But at least it is no longer mandatory.
If you use the armada system of move the fighters to touching the epic ship base if overlapped it will 100percent be abused for low init to repo after all the aces. It only works in armada because facings dont exist for the fighters. They do here and it's an immediately obvious exploit.
11 minutes ago, Darth Meanie said:I essentially have. However:
A. I wait 2 years until Epic shows up, and then when I finally decide to convert there are no conversion kits being manufactured anymore.
B. I convert now, and discover that Epic is as big of a joke as the app.
C. I trust a company that pooched the app and the blue line on the last Huge ship release and pray that it all works out.
All three are pretty lame options, given that I could give a fudge about Standard as a fall-back plan.
Yeah it's a bad spot. Ffg pulled a d**k move by chasing new faction customers over supporting existing ones
34 minutes ago, Darth Meanie said:I essentially have. However:
A. I wait 2 years until Epic shows up, and then when I finally decide to convert there are no conversion kits being manufactured anymore.
B. I convert now, and discover that Epic is as big of a joke as the app.
C. I trust a company that pooched the app and the blue line on the last Huge ship release and pray that it all works out.
All three are pretty lame options, given that I could give a fudge about Standard as a fall-back plan.
Considering FFG has already lied about being able to be a single faction, your best bet is to just wait or drop out all together. I pre-ordered a core and faction kits because I trusted FFG that I could maintain a single faction. I have ZERO interest in buying out of my faction. Then we see new obstacles in the new factions. I guess FFG just expects all of us to buy those new factions to get the new obstacles. 0-0-0 is another example as well as other cross faction cards not available in the conversation kits. On top of that, new people into the game that WANT to play Old Republic Only (I am sure there are people out there who would) still have to buy a core which has pilot cards and ships they will never use.
FFG KNEW they were going to have 7 factions before they released 2.0. They SHOULD NOT have developed a core box. They should have just created a starter kit without ships. The standard kit could have included the following:
If FFG wanted to make some more money, they could have done this: Delux Kit
Please don't say, the more product FFG puts out, the harder it is for stores to stock. Most of the stores I have been to for 1.0 stocked 3rd party additions like Acrylic tokens and templates as well as FFG's official dice packs and dial covers. Its obviously not a problem for stores. Who wouldn't want to be able to purchase FFG acrylics (assuming they actually make them with quality). FFG can still have their tournament acrylic prizes too.
Darth Meanie, have you tried this?
Edited by Lace Jetstreamer
55 minutes ago, Dabirdisdaword said:Nah hes right. Epic fans should just go away and stop buying. I'm sure less players engaged makes for a healthier game judging by how many in this forum want others to get out of their hobby.
Not even close to being remotely similar to what I said.
Standard is in a better place now than it has ever been. It is not difficult to play with huge ships using 2.0 rules and some house rules to cover the rough spots. Theoretically, the people who prefer epic are supposed to be (according to “conventional wisdom”) fine with house rules and tweaking things to make what they want work better. FFG has said they are going to redo epic. Now, whether you think they will do a good job with that, or muck it up, is a different question, but I don’t think it’s reasonable to assume that they outright lied and aren’t going to do something to update it.
So, out of 6 years worth of content that needs updated, plus brand new content that still has to be developed, and a fringe mode of play that can still be played with minimal work, by people who are assumed to enjoy that kind of tweaking, I don’t think it is unreasonable to say people should be willing to wait more than 12 weeks for their particular favorite thing about the game to get updated.
40 minutes ago, Lace Jetstreamer said:Darth Meanie, have you tried this?
No, I haven't, because I'm in the middle of my campaign.*
It looks good and very well thought out, however.
*Which is how I'm keeping myself distracted with 1.0 as I try to determine how much I really care about 2.0.
8 minutes ago, Forgottenlore said:I don’t think it is unreasonable to say people should be willing to wait more than 12 weeks for their particular favorite thing about the game to get updated.
***Posted to a gaming board where Standard Players try to solve the meta 5 minutes after a news article drops with no points or upgrade slots.***
Edited by Darth Meanie
6 minutes ago, Forgottenlore said:Not even close to being remotely similar to what I said.
Standard is in a better place now than it has ever been. It is not difficult to play with huge ships using 2.0 rules and some house rules to cover the rough spots. Theoretically, the people who prefer epic are supposed to be (according to “conventional wisdom”) fine with house rules and tweaking things to make what they want work better. FFG has said they are going to redo epic. Now, whether you think they will do a good job with that, or muck it up, is a different question, but I don’t think it’s reasonable to assume that they outright lied and aren’t going to do something to update it.
So, out of 6 years worth of content that needs updated, plus brand new content that still has to be developed, and a fringe mode of play that can still be played with minimal work, by people who are assumed to enjoy that kind of tweaking, I don’t think it is unreasonable to say people should be willing to wait more than 12 weeks for their particular favorite thing about the game to get updated.
It's way more than 12 weeks. Wave 2 ain't hit yet. Wave 3 announced. Looking at a year of them releasing new "hook" content but leaving the customers who shelled out for big epic ships -and- extra other ships to fill out the lists in the cold.
I'm annoyed because epic is why I bought in at all. My collection is 3x any of the standard players I know. And I've been told to get f****d for 1 year+ at least. With ffg being known to fudge the wording a bit so I have no faith that anything is coming.
Yeah I'm annoyed and taking "stop whining you're impatient" criticism as disingenuous and ignoring the actual timetable in order to say "shut up and go away".
On 11/12/2018 at 2:58 PM, ScummyRebel said:I’m really liking all these ideas that are dumping “epic” outright and making huge ships/huge ship ruleset standard overall.
Then add a format to the app: cinematic. In cinematic, we play 6x3, ramp up the points, and have objectives. I’d say like Armada but I have zero clue what those are like. I do know Legion, and that format works for me in terms of objective selection.
What you described as a new format is simply renaming "Epic" to "Cinematic". It's how it always should have been, and actually, was . I don't think anyone is saying Epic needs to be a totally different game, just a game with different stakes. There are a few areas where the game could be streamlined - maybe a limit on aces and possibly special rules for aces so they don't die rapidly as they get focused down by a whole squadron. Squadron rules for faster movement and actions would be nice. Also, every game of Epic should have a Huge ship - that's kinda the point. Huge ships certainly need detail, but not complexity. That's the game designer's mantra: "detail, NOT complexity". Details are things that make the game feel right (lumbering, powerful HUGE ships), while complexity bogs down play (the whole power mechanic). There are some great fixes for this proposed by some Epic fans - I hope FFG takes notice.
I wouldn't worry too much, X-wing 2.0 already looks suspiciously compatible with epic rules...
"Systems" phase?...
"Energy" tokens powering cards? ...
To me, it's pretty obvious FFG wants to streamline the old 'epic rules' with the current 'normal' mechanics,
Edited by Jehan Menasis3 minutes ago, Jehan Menasis said:I wouldn't worry too much, X-wing 2.0 already looks suspiciously compatible with epic rules...
"Systems" phase?...
"Energy" tokens powering cards? ...
To me, it's pretty obvious FFG wants to streamline the old 'epic rules' with the current 'normal' mechanics,
This would actually be a good thing. Even better if they open up competitive to Huge ships (might be part of the reason there is a solid "Squadron = 2 to 8 ships" rule for Tournament list building), though making them a viable choice might be an interesting eggshell dance (Regen GR-75....).
1 hour ago, Bad Idea Comics said:What you described as a new format is simply renaming "Epic" to "Cinematic". It's how it always should have been, and actually, was . I don't think anyone is saying Epic needs to be a totally different game, just a game with different stakes. There are a few areas where the game could be streamlined - maybe a limit on aces and possibly special rules for aces so they don't die rapidly as they get focused down by a whole squadron. Squadron rules for faster movement and actions would be nice. Also, every game of Epic should have a Huge ship - that's kinda the point. Huge ships certainly need detail, but not complexity. That's the game designer's mantra: "detail, NOT complexity". Details are things that make the game feel right (lumbering, powerful HUGE ships), while complexity bogs down play (the whole power mechanic). There are some great fixes for this proposed by some Epic fans - I hope FFG takes notice.
You are describing Armada. If I wanted to play Armada, I would play Armada, not Epic X-Wing.
Some of the posts on this thread makes me want to post Last Jedi memes. Specifically Luke's "Everything you just said is wrong" and Gareth Edwards "It's salt" GIFs.
However, I'm trying to forget The Last Jedi ever happened, so...
3 hours ago, Lace Jetstreamer said:Considering FFG has already lied about being able to be a single faction
FFG said all non-faction specific upgrades would come to all factions *but not necessarily at the same time*. Where was the lie?
15 minutes ago, mazz0 said:FFG said all non-faction specific upgrades would come to all factions *but not necessarily at the same time*. Where was the lie?
The implication is that you can remain COMPETITIVE being a single faction. That is the LIE. That is the anti-consumer business model. The reason they made the core set and the reason they exclude cards from factions for some amount of time is their monetization strategy. FFG wants players to BUY all the product. They incentivize this by using exclusivity. 0-0-0 is a case in point. Forcing scum players to purchase a core set where they cannot use Pilots and Ships. Forcing old players to buy a core where all they really need is a damage deck. This is the stuff that FFG is building 2.0 off of. This is how FFG build their business with 1.0 and they are continuing to do it with 2.0. I wish I had known as I wouldn't have upgraded.
2 minutes ago, Lace Jetstreamer said:The implication is that you can remain COMPETITIVE being a single faction. That is the LIE. That is the anti-consumer business model. The reason they made the core set and the reason they exclude cards from factions for some amount of time is their monetization strategy. FFG wants players to BUY all the product. They incentivize this by using exclusivity. 0-0-0 is a case in point. Forcing scum players to purchase a core set where they cannot use Pilots and Ships. Forcing old players to buy a core where all they really need is a damage deck. This is the stuff that FFG is building 2.0 off of. This is how FFG build their business with 1.0 and they are continuing to do it with 2.0. I wish I had known as I wouldn't have upgraded.
It’s not a lie at all - they specifically said it woulnd’t always be in the same wave.
I agree the core set isn’t ideal for many players though.
I’m kinda surprised we’re not getting a prequel core set.
1 hour ago, FTS Gecko said:Some of the posts on this thread makes me want to post Last Jedi memes. Specifically Luke's "Everything you just said is wrong" and Gareth Edwards "It's salt" GIFs.
However , I'm trying to forget The Last Jedi ever happened , so...
You are very, very bad at that.
Edited by TopHatGorilla