I've been flying this fun little build invented by @MikeEvans for a while now:

Wedge Antilles (52)
Swarm Tactics (3)
R2 Astromech (6)
Servomotor S-foils (0)

Garven Dreis (47)
Servomotor S-foils (0)

Lieutenant Blount (30)

Heff Tobber (45)
Intimidation (3)
Advanced Sensors (8)
“Zeb” Orrelios (1)
Tactical Officer (2)
Electronic Baffle (2)
Pivot Wing (0)

Total: 199

View in Yet Another Squad Builder 2.0

However, I find it incredibly difficult to actually get the enemy to bump into Heff, which makes him into a really expensive arc-locked Coordinate platform for large portions of the game. Therefore, I'm thinking a lot about improving the Wedge/Garven dynamic instead, like this:

Wedge Antilles (52)
Swarm Tactics (3)
R2 Astromech (6)
Servomotor S-foils (0)

Garven Dreis (47)
Elusive (3)
Servomotor S-foils (0)

AP-5 (30)

Esege Tuketu (50)
Barrage Rockets (6)
Seismic Charges (3)

Total: 200

View in Yet Another Squad Builder 2.0

That way, Garven gets more staying power and the Focus mechanic switcheroo between them gets more pronounced. The downside is that Esege is a clear "first target" and bad at defending, meaning he will go down pretty quickly. So, what do you guys think?

I've been wanting to make a list that exploits the obvious synergy between Garven and Esege. I've come up with some 3-ship lists, but I always prefer more ships and this one looks very promising. I agree that Esege is a bit of an obvious target, and less survivable than Heff with his 2 agility, but if you keep him further back than everybody else, hopefully that will give you the range-3 bonus.

I do think you'll need to play this list markedly differently than my Heff list. My list likes to pile up in the middle of the map and get stuck in. That's because Heff likes getting bumped, can fire while bumped with Zeb, and he can give actions to people even without moving. For this list, I think you'll need to be extra careful where you position Esege and AP-5.

You miiiiight consider freeing up enough points for a perceptive copilot on Esege, but it may not be strictly necessary.

I look forward to seeing suggestions for the list, as well as hearing about how it performs!

I've been flying recently a list I'll paste below for reference. My experience with it? Rather underwhelming to be honest. On the upside, Esege is the bread to Garven's butter. Between them two, the Focus token is a miraculous resource. But the problem, as you've noticed, Esege goes down first, and does so fast.

You've got here a 4-piece variation and I'm really looking forward to hear how that would work. But I'm moving on in my search for a list to get competitive with.

Another thing, if you're looking for a 60-ish point bumped, you could think about Norra (ARC) with Intimidation and Zeb. While on Ini5 she's hardly a blocked, she looms in like a train and whoever she rams into is in deep trouble. In a list with coordinate, she also isn't going to roll her dice saute.

-----------------

The good, the bad, and the ugly V2

(50) Esege Tuketu
(10) Perceptive Copilot
(6) Barrage Rockets
(5) Proton Bombs
Points 71

(52) Wedge Antilles
(9) Proton Torpedoes
(0) Servomotor S-foils
(1) Crack Shot
(3) R3 Astromech
Points 65

(51) Garven Dreis
(3) R3 Astromech
(2) Jyn Erso
(4) Shield Upgrade
(1) Trick Shot
Points 61

Total points: 197

@ryfterekYeah, but three ships seems a bit on the light side, no? My feeling is that the mode de jour is fewer upgrades, more ships. Also, Wedge really wants that Swarm Instinct when flying with Garven IMHO.

This is a possibility, but it relegates Esege to a support only role.

Wedge Antilles (52)
Swarm Tactics (3)
R5 Astromech (5)
Servomotor S-foils (0)

Garven Dreis (47)
Elusive (3)
Servomotor S-foils (0)

AP-5 (30)

Esege Tuketu (50)
Perceptive Copilot (10)

Total: 200

View in Yet Another Squad Builder 2.0

@MikeEvans I know that the list is different, my problem is that in five games now I didn't manage to get Heff to work like that. Five games, and I got exactly ONE block out of him. I know that it's my flying, not the list, but if I can't fly the list, it seems like I should change gears. Wedge, Garven and Esege will fly pretty close together, with Ap-5 not long behind them. If you want to do me a solid, give me your starting setup for Heffy Hitters in a vassal image

But bottom line is, I'm really unsure.

@Stefan agreed on the weight vs quantity balance nowadays. For the Swarm Tactics Wedge, keep in mind that in the variation I've posted, Wedge is free to grab one of 2 of Esege's tokens without "filtering" it through Garven - the latter is not depleting Esege's tokens.

The build of yours, I'm afraid, invest too much into the support department. 90 points and 2 chassis is too much to give up on the offensive side.

If you keep Wedge, Garven, and AP5 naked except for Swarm Tactics on Wedge, you have enough for Barrage Rockets and Perceptive on Esege with 2 points left over. I think he needs the bite of the rockets to be taken seriously.

When I set up, I put Heff in front and two of the other ships on either side of him, facing each other. On the first turn. Heff moves forward and the other two do hard turns to line up beside each other, behind him. I have tried flanking with Garven (not a great idea) and with Wedge (better, still not great) but in general I just prefer to keep everybody pretty close together. Most of the lists I've flown against either wanted to joust (and find out it is a bad idea) or I outflew them on the approach to force them into the quagmire. Even when I fly perfectly, I don't get many opportunities to use Heff's ability either. It's still effective, though, because it forces them to fly differently! It helps if you get stuck in between asteroids to limit the enemy's access/escapes.

As @ryfterek pointed out, when I put the Perceptive copilot on Esegu, I don't really need Swarm Instinct anymore.

Wedge Antilles (52)
Servomotor S-foils (0)

Garven Dreis (47)
Servomotor S-foils (0)

AP-5 (30)

Esege Tuketu (50)
Barrage Rockets (6)
Perceptive Copilot (10)

Total: 195

View in Yet Another Squad Builder 2.0

This leaves me with either two astromechs (R4), two EPT (Predator most likely), one R4 and one EPT, or R2 on Wedge.

Or bombs on the K-Wing.

Decisions. The problem is decisions.

What about Jyn Erso on AP-5? Then the X-Wings can focus and convert them to evades when they think one might be appropriate. That leaves you with 3 points for something... seismics on Esege? Elusive on Wedge? R4/EPT and a point bid?

Seismics are cirumstantially useful but do not justify the opportunity cost of losing two EPT. I'm not very enthusiastic about R4; green 2-turns are nice, but that's about it. I'm thinking hard about EPTs. Currently, these options make my head hurt:

- R2 on Wedge, rest naked

- Elusive on any one X-Wing, Predator on the other

- Jyn Erso on AP-5, Swarm Instinct on Wedge

- Seismic charges on Esege, Crack Shot on Garven, Marksmanship on Wedge

I'm not really hot on Jyn Erso either, but that may be my lackluster play experience and general level of play. I feel that the decision when to use her and to set up a situation in which she actually triggers is too much for me, and that while it may be a strong build in the right hands, just as with the Heffy Hitters, I'm not skilled enough to make it work and should stick to simpler, more consistent builds. But then again, I've got no experience with Bullseye-Arc builds either. Another thought related to this: if I use Jyn, it seems I need Swarm Instincts back to make the synergy work, right? Else these are viable:

- Jyn Erso on AP-5, Elusive on Wedge

- Jyn Erso on AP-5, Predator on Wedge, Crack Shot or Marksmanship or Trick Shot on Garven.

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A totally unrelated point, but I'd include it here: did you ever think of exchanging Blount with Sabine in the Attack Shuttle? She should be a really potent receiver of Heff's Coordinate, and if you lose R2 and Zeb, you get a more durable and consistent platform than Blount. It's still not advisable to ram the U-Wing

Wedge Antilles (52)
Swarm Tactics (3)
Servomotor S-foils (0)

Garven Dreis (47)
Servomotor S-foils (0)

Heff Tobber (45)
Intimidation (3)
Advanced Sensors (8)
Tactical Officer (2)
Electronic Baffle (2)
Pivot Wing (0)

Sabine Wren (38)

Total: 200

View in Yet Another Squad Builder 2.0

Update: I tried:

Wedge Antilles (52)
Swarm Tactics (3)
Servomotor S-foils (0)

Garven Dreis (47)
Crackshot

Servomotor S-foils (0)

Heff Tobber (45)
Advanced Sensors (8)
Tactical Officer (2)
Pivot Wing (0)

Sabine Wren (38)

Juke

Total: 200

Didn't really work. The U-Wing is now too expensive for the little that it does. Sabine is cool though.

I also tried:

Wedge Antilles (52)
Marksmanship (1)
Servomotor S-foils (0)

Garven Dreis (47)
Crack Shot (1)
Servomotor S-foils (0)

AP-5 (30)

Esege Tuketu (50)
Barrage Rockets (6)
Perceptive Copilot (10)
Seismic Charges (3)

Total: 200

View in Yet Another Squad Builder 2.0

I think it was mostly due to my bad flying that it didn't perform well; having to keep four ships in tight formation that fly very differently is a major problem. It didn't help I flew against a fiendish list including Unkar Plutt and Palob.

I like swarm tactics it's a good card, good I seen a rebel list with 4 ships. ?

I've been focusing on the U-wing lately in all sorts of different configs and honestly they're better off really lite. Tactical officer is stapled. Anything else is just gravy. My favorite pilot is cassian by a mile but magva is also excellent. Adv sensors is not needed but what is fantastic is jyn and juke.. sippin' on gin and juke laaaid back..

Anyway on topic.. I was recently brewing with something similar to this concept, only I've been stuck on 3 ships but trying to work on a WWII theme. But my question is why would you ever choose garvins X-wing over the arc? Unless I'm misinterpreting the interaction.. I'm seeing it play out as esege copilots 2 focus, garvin spends 1-2 giving any used back to esege as focus or even evades depending on the need and/or presence of juke in the list.

Because X-Wings.

I'm currently abandoning the archetype. It just doesn't work for my playstyle; too much interconnected flying and I'm not getting the consistency I need.

On 11/16/2018 at 3:05 AM, Stefan said:

Because X-Wings.

I'm currently abandoning the archetype. It just doesn't work for my playstyle; too much interconnected flying and I'm not getting the consistency I need.

Here's a list with Garven and Wedge. Not necessarily a good list, since I haven't tested it, but a list:

Ten Numb (50)
Squad Leader (4)
Advanced Sensors (8)
Proton Torpedoes (9)

Garven Dreis (47)
Swarm Tactics (3)
Proton Torpedoes (9)
R4 Astromech (2)
Servomotor S-foils (0)

Wedge Antilles (52)
Swarm Tactics (3)
Proton Torpedoes (9)
R4 Astromech (2)
Servomotor S-foils (0)

Total: 198

View in Yet Another Squad Builder 2.0

Should have pretty consistent dice mods at least, I'd think (hope).

(Note that contrary to appearances, only two of the three torps would be going off in the opening engagement, assuming Garven can get a lock. Ten needs to coordinate to Garven to get double mods on the two X-wings, not take a lock.)

Edit:

Maybe this is a better version. Hutch, over Numb, gets to fire his torp as well, albeit single modded.

Garven Dreis (47)
Swarm Tactics (3)
Proton Torpedoes (9)
R2 Astromech (6)
Servomotor S-foils (0)

Wedge Antilles (52)
Swarm Tactics (3)
Proton Torpedoes (9)
R2 Astromech (6)
Servomotor S-foils (0)

“Dutch” Vander (42)
Expert Handling (2)
Dorsal Turret (4)
Proton Torpedoes (9)
R2 Astromech (6)

Total: 198

View in Yet Another Squad Builder 2.0

I really don't like swarm wedge

You got an I 6 potential arcdodger and you want to shackle him to range 1 of another dude?

Imo, i6 swarm should be reserved for Rau. Using him and an i6 Garven/Dutch gives you 3 I 6s AND supports wedge who can be faffing off up to range 3 away from your support pilot

JankaPeede (version Dutch)

(42) "Dutch" Vander
(9) Proton Torpedoes
(3) Selfless
Points 54

(52) Fenn Rau
(3) Swarm Tactics
Points 55

(52) Wedge Antilles
(0) Servomotor S-foils
(9) Proton Torpedoes
Points 61

(30) Lieutenant Blount
Points 30

Total points: 200

(Dutch focus, wedge focus, rau coordinates an i6 target lock with Dutch; Dutch gives wedge a target lock)

Sadly can't really replace Dutch with Garven. Gives you 7 more points, which is one short of Sabine ?

dont think losing two torps is worth that