Just now, impspy said:

Yeah I just realized that; must be the fog of 1.0 hanging over my head lol

There'll be allot of that going around for a bit. Cheers.

Krennic's more for mods on Jendon (use his own ability), but ya you can krennic a Delta

The initiative distribution aint optimized, ironically, but it IS a thing to try to not forget

59 minutes ago, ficklegreendice said:

Krennic's more for mods on Jendon (use his own ability), but ya you can krennic a Delta

The initiative distribution aint optimized, ironically, but it IS a thing to try to not forget

Optimized Prototype has to be assigned to another friendly ship. Jendon does get to make use of the Lock action though with Krennic on his ship though, so maybe you were referring to that.

4 hours ago, ficklegreendice said:

DDJ

(46) Colonel Jendon
(5) Director Krennic
(2) Tactical Scrambler
Points 53

(72) Delta Squadron Pilot
(3) Fire-Control System
Points 75

(72) Delta Squadron Pilot

*Prototype*
Points 72

Total points: 200

Need to get it on the table, but there's my stab at Defenders

Only issue I have is how hard palob curbstomps them

I have underestimated Optimized Prototype since it was **** good in 1.0 and looked like the big nerf hammer fell upon it in 2.0.

Not at all. Rexler and an OP Duchess (both with juke) are weapons of mass destruction. Along with Sai.

I have found double Juke Onyx Defenders to be really hard to kill. Finding a good filler ship for less than 36 points has been an issue. That ship always dies while the defenders normally last until the end on the round. I haven't flone it, but Valen Rudor might be the best fit.

Triple Juke Squad

(78) Onyx Squadron Ace
(4) Juke
Points 82

(78) Onyx Squadron Ace
(4) Juke
Points 82

(28) Valen Rudor
(4) Juke
Points 32

Total points: 196

13 minutes ago, Shockley said:

I have found double Juke Onyx Defenders to be really hard to kill. Finding a good filler ship for less than 36 points has been an issue. That ship always dies while the defenders normally last until the end on the round. I haven't flone it, but Valen Rudor might be the best fit.

Triple Juke Squad

(78) Onyx Squadron Ace
(4) Juke
Points 82

(78) Onyx Squadron Ace
(4) Juke
Points 82

(28) Valen Rudor
(4) Juke
Points 32

Total points: 196

As far as Juking defenders go, I prefer to buff them with FCS, this leaves 30 pts with Gideon Hask as a perfect fit.

In a resent tournament, I flew Hask as the filler and he kept dying before I could use his ability.

9 minutes ago, Shockley said:

In a resent tournament, I flew Hask as the filler and he kept dying before I could use his ability.

which is ok. He'll die like any other TIE Fighter would, but his ability means that he's more likely to be a first target. Essentially you're forcing opponent to prioritize to kill filler first or punish him for not doing it.

2 hours ago, PT106 said:

which is ok. He'll die like any other TIE Fighter would, but his ability means that he's more likely to be a first target. Essentially you're forcing opponent to prioritize to kill filler first or punish him for not doing it.

Wampa might be a better choice for a draw their fire type ship. His I1 could also make him an effective blocker.

So I thought I'd take a stab at a 2 Defender list and this is what I've come up with.

TIE/D Defender - •Rexler Brath - 98

•Rexler Brath - Onyx Leader (84)

Juke (4)

Collision Detector (5)

Cluster Missiles (5)

TIE/D Defender - •Colonel Vessery - 102

•Colonel Vessery - Contemplative Commander (88)

Juke (4)

Collision Detector (5)

Cluster Missiles (5)

Total: 200/200

View in the X-Wing Squad Builder

Thought maybe Cluster Missiles might work to get more red dice rolling and keep ahead of multiple enemy engagements. Collision Detectors to give them options for K-turning and keeping arc on things.

I know a lot of people are fans of advanced sensors on these guys but I feel like they're pretty expensive and sheer firepower and ability to ignore obstacles early on might be enough to dictate engagements in their favor. Still just 2 Defenders though, still not sure it's enough to hold its own against the proven 200 pt lists out there.

47 minutes ago, Skeether said:

So I thought I'd take a stab at a 2 Defender list and this is what I've come up with.

TIE/D Defender - •Rexler Brath - 98

•Rexler Brath - Onyx Leader (84)

Juke (4)

Collision Detector (5)

Cluster Missiles (5)

TIE/D Defender - •Colonel Vessery - 102

•Colonel Vessery - Contemplative Commander (88)

Juke (4)

Collision Detector (5)

Cluster Missiles (5)

Total: 200/200

View in the X-Wing Squad Builder

Thought maybe Cluster Missiles might work to get more red dice rolling and keep ahead of multiple enemy engagements. Collision Detectors to give them options for K-turning and keeping arc on things.

I know a lot of people are fans of advanced sensors on these guys but I feel like they're pretty expensive and sheer firepower and ability to ignore obstacles early on might be enough to dictate engagements in their favor. Still just 2 Defenders though, still not sure it's enough to hold its own against the proven 200 pt lists out there.

2 Defenders is hard but it's very decent against a lot of things.

I'd be tempted to put FCS on Rex. Col Det is pretty fantastic, (and they need to be unpredictable as a pair), but looking at Vess and Cluster Missiles... That 1st TL empowers a lot of rerolls. Could be key against a close knit Scum squad.....

On 11/23/2018 at 3:49 AM, Sciencius said:

1) I am very happy I have helped you understand the basics of this game, because that is precisely how this game works - each pilot and the upgrades have a squad cost assigned, and the total squad cost has to be less than 200 in X-wing version 2.0, when added or "slapped" together (as you say), and outcomes of battle are determined by dice roll, the attacker rolls red dice, the defender rolls green dice.

Then later on, when you have learned the game you should learn about jousting math both average and extremes, and what is required to PS-kill a ship if you focus fire, that will help you to understand if you should joust your enemy list or not. By learning this you will also start to get a feel for when a ship is overcosted or undercosted. Good luck

2) In the STARWARS Universe "magic" is called the "Force" - "It's an energy field created by all living things. It surrounds us and penetrates us, it binds the galaxy together" - the rest you write simply does not make much sense...

What is this strange "arc-dodging" thing of which you imply? Teach me the ways of the maneuvers! Are they not just forwards and K-turns?

Update to a list I posted earlier. I had left over points on all filler options so I just upgraded an Onyx to Rexler. The filler will die quick so why not give them a ship with a reason to shoot at.

(84) Rexler Brath
(4) Juke
Points 88

(78) Onyx Squadron Ace
(4) Juke
Points 82

(30) "Wampa"
Points 30

Total points: 200

On 11/12/2018 at 12:16 PM, DoctorJanus said:

Gonna try this next time:

TIE/D Defender - •Colonel Vessery - 105
•Colonel Vessery - Contemplative Commander (88)
Juke (4)
Advanced Sensors (8)
Cluster Missiles (5)

TIE Advanced x1 - •Darth Vader - 95
•Darth Vader - Black Leader (70)
Advanced Sensors (8)
Cluster Missiles (5)
Supernatural Reflexes (12)

Total: 200/200

Who cares for the I6 bid. Vessery will block if need be.

(Cluster missiles are here to provide higher damage against I1-3 swarms to clear them out faster, but HLC on Vessery is tempting)

Alright, Noob question, how does advanced sensors interact with Vader’s pilot ability?

2 hours ago, FlyingAnchors said:

Alright, Noob question, how does advanced sensors interact with Vader’s pilot ability?

The answer is...poorly.

It prevents you from using Vader’s ability at all. FCS or bust.

Which one do you like more?

Delta Delta Soonts (198/200)
===========================
TIE Interceptor: Soontir Fel (52 + 2)
+ Predator (2)
TIE/D Defender: Delta Squadron Pilot (72)

TIE/D Defender: Delta Squadron Pilot (72)

or

Alpha 2 Onyx (198/200)
=====================
TIE/D Defender: Onyx Squadron Ace (78 + 4)
+ Juke (4)
TIE/D Defender: Onyx Squadron Ace (78 + 4)
+ Juke (4)
TIE Interceptor: Alpha Squadron Pilot (34)

4 hours ago, DXCrazytrain said:

Which one do you like more?

Delta Delta Soonts (198/200)
===========================
TIE Interceptor: Soontir Fel (52 + 2)
+ Predator (2)
TIE/D Defender: Delta Squadron Pilot (72)

TIE/D Defender: Delta Squadron Pilot (72)

or

Alpha 2 Onyx (198/200)
=====================
TIE/D Defender: Onyx Squadron Ace (78 + 4)
+ Juke (4)
TIE/D Defender: Onyx Squadron Ace (78 + 4)
+ Juke (4)
TIE Interceptor: Alpha Squadron Pilot (34)

Another option if you want filler with a 3 dice attack.

(78) Onyx Squadron Ace
(4) Juke
Points 82

(78) Onyx Squadron Ace
(4) Juke
Points 82

(28) Scimitar Squadron Pilot
(6) Barrage Rockets
Points 34

Total points: 198

How about this list?

(75) Onyx Squadron Ace [TIE/D Defender]
(4) Heavy Laser Cannon
(2) Fire-Control System
(7) Juke
Points: 88

(75) Onyx Squadron Ace [TIE/D Defender]
(0) Jamming Beam
(3) Daredevil
Points: 78

(32) "Scourge" Skutu [TIE/ln Fighter]
(1) Crack Shot
Points: 33

Total points: 199

9 hours ago, Imperialist said:

How about this list?

(75) Onyx Squadron Ace [TIE/D Defender]
(4) Heavy Laser Cannon
(2) Fire-Control System
(7) Juke
Points: 88

(75) Onyx Squadron Ace [TIE/D Defender]
(0) Jamming Beam
(3) Daredevil
Points: 78

(32) "Scourge" Skutu [TIE/ln Fighter]
(1) Crack Shot
Points: 33

Total points: 199

I personally don‘t like expensive talents on the TIE/D since the chassis is already expensive enough. Crack shot is good enough.

For the FCS I haven‘t found much use due to the need to fly with speed 3-5 around the battlefield and choose each time different abailable targets.

I like the idea of HLC but you can certainly use the 8 points on the third ship and just go with jamming beams.

2x (75) Onyx Squadron Ace [TIE/D Defender]
(4) Heavy Laser Cannon
(1) Crack Shot

This leaves 40 (or 48) points for a support ship of your choice.

Which means you are in effect paying 7p for that crack shot compared to a Delta. Yes you get higher initiative but only high enough that it will be easier to block you. I find it very hard to justify an onyx.

On 11/10/2018 at 9:54 AM, markcsoul said:

I believe they are the only good to great ship from 1.0 that actually got BETTER in 2.0.

X7 ability somewhat un-nerfed, extra shield, extra actions, sensor slot, and improved dial.

Only thing they lost was mod slot.

So I would be extremely leary of any price decreases on them.

disagree. more stats isnt always worth more points. now it has a better statline but you cant fly 3 together and its awkward to fit with the ships it synergizes with. it also cant equip key upgrades like Stealth device that (while maybe a little busted) protect your points investment.

I'm mostly salty my 3 D list doesn't work anymore, but I also feel most of us agree a generic Defender isn't worth more than Darth Vader, a Firespray, Corran Horn, 2 Interceptors, etc.

Oh, I'd take a generic Defender over Corran any time. I like Corran, but he's not that good. Generic Defender or Luke? Tougher call. But yeah, Vader is way stronger.

That said, the only Defenders I ever fly are Deltas, and almost always with an Init 1 Lambda with Palp. It's a totally fine list, if maybe a bit boring (4K).

I know the Defenders don't see much top-tables competitive play. I still think they should mostly *not* get a price cut. They're the kind of ship which I think can be oppressive at the casual night/local level. I think they're good enough so that folks who enjoy flying them can have some fun, but expensive enough (the lists are fair enough) that you won't ruin everyone else's day.