Information about Organised Play.
https://youtu.be/a3F07NCUAaA

Keynotes
• Sleeves, Opague is mandatory at Premium Level. At Store and lower it's up to the TO.
•Dice are not allowed as tokens!
•Homemade or bought tokens are fine as long as it's clear what they are used as.
•In Archon format(Bring your own deck) Deck list is public knowledge and opponents can see your decklist.
In Sealed opponents can not ask to see the decklist until after the event.
• Things on mat can be laid out according to personal taste, as long as you explain what is put where. I.E. Artefact can be placed above the battleline or Discard like on the far left etc.
•Rules and FAQ will be constantly upfated on FFGs homepage. A link will be there for Brads email to send questions and he will review them asap.
•Decks will earn chains based on its performance at Chainbound level(Standard weekly play) The Chainlevel is reset at higher level events, so a Chainlevel of 20 at Chainbound level will be 0 at a National.
•You can not play in the app. It's a companion with information about decks, events, your info etc.
•No homemade AA cards are legal for Tournament play.

4 hours ago, Holmelund said:

•Rules and FAQ will be constantly upfated on FFGs homepage. A link will be there for Brads email to send questions and he will review them asap

That link already exists (it's the same link as for all FFG products).

I love how the Magic crowd are going nuts over the "no dice allowed", while most LCG players go: "of course you can't use dice, duh!"

1 hour ago, Palpster said:

I love how the Magic crowd are going nuts over the "no dice allowed", while most LCG players go: "of course you can't use dice, duh!"

Because the no dice rule is dumb.

4 minutes ago, netherspirit1982 said:

Because the no dice rule is dumb.

I disagree, but have also seen this discussed enough to know that no one is going to sway the other's opinion with arguments so I'll just leave it at that. Bottom line, dumb or not, it's not allowed in official Keyforge events, what you do in casual games is up to you.

Magic professional players have been cheating in top tournaments for years. And WotC adores them. Of course try hards want dice so they can cheat like their favorite pro cheater.

A bag of glass beads at Micheals is like $3. Heck i still have 3 bags i bought around 8 years ago that i use as counters.

I get the many reasons not to use dice with unknown players. We use them at home all the time. But the reasons for not allowing them are not only reasonable, I personally agree with them. There is nothing worse than putting your best foot forward only to lose to cheating. Dice are easy to cheat with. (Sloppy graveyard piling is another one. Personally I think it should be required that you keep your graveyard/discard piled up neatly and in a single cards profile. None of this spreading out the graveyard BS we seen in mtg pro events.)

Cheating is super prevalent in MTG. I honestly believe WOTC does nothing about it due to laziness. I don't think they endorse it or like it. They are just lazy at this point. Its one of the main things that keeps me from wanting to play official MTG events. The cheating is so common in MTG is amazes me. But I digress, no dice is fine with me. Tokens are more visually appealing anyhow

15 hours ago, Krashwire said:

I get the many reasons not to use dice with unknown players. We use them at home all the time. But the reasons for not allowing them are not only reasonable, I personally agree with them. There is nothing worse than putting your best foot forward only to lose to cheating. Dice are easy to cheat with. (Sloppy graveyard piling is another one. Personally I think it should be required that you keep your graveyard/discard piled up neatly and in a single cards profile. None of this spreading out the graveyard BS we seen in mtg pro events.)

Cheating is super prevalent in MTG. I honestly believe WOTC does nothing about it due to laziness. I don't think they endorse it or like it. They are just lazy at this point. Its one of the main things that keeps me from wanting to play official MTG events. The cheating is so common in MTG is amazes me. But I digress, no dice is fine with me. Tokens are more visually appealing anyhow

Spreading your graveyard out? Don’t many cards in MTG literally depend on graveyard card order? Ie discard the top card

On 11/10/2018 at 2:09 AM, Holmelund said:

• Sleeves, Opague is mandatory at Premium Level. At Store and lower it's up to the TO.

I really wish they'd explain why the very product they recommend we buy to sleeve these decks are unusable.

20 hours ago, Palpster said:

I love how the Magic crowd are going nuts over the "no dice allowed", while most LCG players go: "of course you can't use dice, duh!"

I never understood the fuzz about dice. Adding or removing tokens is much less fiddly and less prone to accidents

19 minutes ago, dperello said:

I really wish they'd explain why the very product they recommend we buy to sleeve these decks are unusable.

Their rationale is that it prevents players from using cards that have become "marked" through incidental damage. Personally, I don't think it's likely to make a difference for a number of reasons, but FFG does sell opaque sleeves as well.

Also, unless you have an unreasonable tournament organizer, clear sleeves will be just fine at local, low-level tournaments. Basically, you only need opaque sleeves for "unchained" events.

Someone’s anti-Magic bias is showing.

There’s a reason why we like to use dice, and it’s not all that nefarious: I only need one set for every game I play. I know that many of the FFG apologists (see my bias?) won’t see the inconvenience, but over the years FFG has put out a lot of cardboard in an effort to make their games unique. Each and every single one of those games requires a slightly different storage solution for its accessories, and at a certain point it becomes tedious. I’m well past that point, and for a game like Keyforge - where I really don’t need a coreset to play the game - it just seems like a money grab to force me back towards those accessories. The dice I use for my other games seem more than adequate in this instance, and if the draw of Keyforge is that it’s cheaper to get into, why not let me enjoy that advantage entirely?

As far as cheating goes, let’s be fair: if you can cheat with dice you can cheat with beads, chits, tokens, or whatever else you’re inclined to use. Fractions of a second is a long enough distraction for someone to grab two beads instead of one, and to infer otherwise is just disingenuous. That’s why in games like Magic, which has enjoyed a long and generally healthy professional tournament scene, it’s actually both players’ responsibilities to track each other’s board states and life totals. If you’re really worried about cheating, why would you ever trust your opponent to manage those things by themselves?

My first response to the FFG playerbase saying of course dice leads to cheating is what about SW:D? The whole premise of that game uses dice. Not only that, at pro level M:tG events everything is tracked on paper, outside of +1/+1 or -1/-1 counters. Or other counters like that. Even then they use D6 which are much harder to adjust with a bump of the table. I personally am not super beholden to dice over chits, although dice are much easier for me. I think a nice compromise will be some sort of spinner like this. or this

You can use literally anything but dice for your tokens. I don't see how it is just an additional money grab for ffg to sell product. You don't have to buy a core set. I'm using the custom tokens from netrunner I had lying around. Are you telling me you have nothing but dice to use?

We used dice as markers for pre-release - it was awful and I never want to have to do it again.

When you have a creature with 1 captured amber, 3 wounds, and +2 power, it gets... messy. We had colored dice and I still didn't like it.

Anyways anybody with a board game closet should be able to raid it for plenty of various tokens, so whatever.

10 minutes ago, WonderWAAAGH said:

Someone’s anti-Magic bias is showing.

There’s a reason why we like to use dice, and it’s not all that nefarious: I only need one set for every game I play. I know that many of the FFG apologists (see my bias?) won’t see the inconvenience, but over the years FFG has put out a lot of cardboard in an effort to make their games unique. Each and every single one of those games requires a slightly different storage solution for its accessories, and at a certain point it becomes tedious. I’m well past that point, and for a game like Keyforge - where I really don’t need a coreset to play the game - it just seems like a money grab to force me back towards those accessories. The dice I use for my other games seem more than adequate in this instance, and if the draw of Keyforge is that it’s cheaper to get into, why not let me enjoy that advantage entirely?

As far as cheating goes, let’s be fair: if you can cheat with dice you can cheat with beads, chits, tokens, or whatever else you’re inclined to use. Fractions of a second is a long enough distraction for someone to grab two beads instead of one, and to infer otherwise is just disingenuous. That’s why in games like Magic, which has enjoyed a long and generally healthy professional tournament scene, it’s actually both players’ responsibilities to track each other’s board states and life totals. If you’re really worried about cheating, why would you ever trust your opponent to manage those things by themselves?

There seems to be a lot of anti-Magic bias in a lot of the FFG communities which is kind of unfortunate....

I agree with your reasons to use dice, but I do disagree with your assumed reason that FFG is making a money grab: they do after all allow home-made or third party tokens. I play X-Wing as well, and seeing the diverse tokens and having such things as tournament prizes is pretty sweet (I anticipate some nice tokens and playmats to be part of whatever prize support they offer).

Also, in the video they clearly state that the no dice is because its hard to maintain a consistent game state (didn't hear anything about cheating). There are a lot of cards that have statuses tracked in Keyforge and dice maintaining game state can get just as messy as they say in the video, especially when you have multiple things being tracked on a single card.

2 hours ago, WonderWAAAGH said:

Someone’s anti-Magic bias is showing.

There’s a reason why we like to use dice, and it’s not all that nefarious: I only need one set for every game I play. I know that many of the FFG apologists (see my bias?) won’t see the inconvenience, but over the years FFG has put out a lot of cardboard in an effort to make their games unique. Each and every single one of those games requires a slightly different storage solution for its accessories, and at a certain point it becomes tedious. I’m well past that point, and for a game like Keyforge - where I really don’t need a coreset to play the game - it just seems like a money grab to force me back towards those accessories. The dice I use for my other games seem more than adequate in this instance, and if the draw of Keyforge is that it’s cheaper to get into, why not let me enjoy that advantage entirely?

FFG doesn't force you to use the official tokens, though, as long as it is clear what is what. By repurposing other games tokens and maybe getting some cheap beads or decorating crystals, the additional material required to be able to use a deck can be kept very inexpensive.

Ellimist, I looked for the same counters but these don't have numbers:

Obviously I don't have to use official tokens. But by forcing me not to use dice, I now have to consciously reconsider my alternatives - of which the most obvious are the official tokens. It's fairly simple marketing, actually. Will everyone opt to use them? No, but even just a few people who would have been fine with dice will choose to buy back into the core set, because why not? You get extra decks with it, after all. FFG nets themselves some added quiche with no extra effort apart from banning a common gaming tool.

4 minutes ago, WonderWAAAGH said:

of which the most obvious are the official tokens. It's fairly simple marketing, actually. Will everyone opt to use them? No, but even just a few people who would have been fine with dice will choose to buy back into the core set, because why not?

Disagree. The most obvious are glass beads and other basic counters available at every FLGS. That option is also almost $40 cheaper than a core box.

I think that's a matter of opinion, friend. Either way, the very concept of marketing is getting into the consumer's head. My choice was made until FFG took that choice away from me, and the act of having to re-consider that choice puts everything back on the table, including their own products. I'm not going to buy it either way, but that won't stop someone else from doing so. Taking away my choices for the prospect of earning more money is what makes it feel like a cash grab. That's my perspective and I feel entitled to it.

As far as the sleeves go, I'm okay with it, but it's a complete 180 from where they stood with Destiny. That means a lot of people who thought their clear $11 Dragon Shields (which last for ages, FYI) were all they needed are going to feel as put out as the pro-dice crowd.

8 minutes ago, Keithustus said:

other basic counters available at every FLGS.

I've never seen any kind of counters sold at any of my lgs within an hour radius outside of dice. Hobby Lobby on the other hand...

I also feel like the launch tournament using the starter package feels like a forced sale.

Sleeves - In a game such as this, where the card backs are unique to the deck, I find it a little odd that clear sleeves are NOT allowed. You'd think it'd be a good way to make sure the deck hasn't been tampered with.

It's really, really hard to preserve the quality of a card even fresh out of the pack. Just a single nick along the edge is unpreventable, and usually enough to qualify a card as being marked. That's why I thought it was odd for Destiny to go the opposite route.

With only 36 cards to manage, and cards not being interchangeable between sets, it won't be hard for a reasonably competent player to identify something out-of-place. Not that cheating won't be possible, but I don't think there's all that much to fear. A bigger concern might be whether or not players are allowed to keep track or count their opponent's cards mid-game, since unlike other games your discard pile eventually goes back into the deck.