@Hiemfire I’ll admit that reasoning regarding the ship ability is making me question my theory for the first time.
I guess I could see you being able to evade (normally) and then optionally spend a force to effectively “coordinate” an evade to a r1 buddy... but that doesn’t make any sense for the purple coordinate.
The do-it-while-stressed version doesn’t seem like a terribly unlikely idea, no, but it just feels less likely to me, I guess.
Edited by SpiderMana11 minutes ago, Hiemfire said:Because the wording on the ship ability would have included Evade as well as Boost or Barrel Roll so it doesn't flow logically.
It makes sense if they wanted you to be able to use the free Evade at the cost of a force token even if you didn't complete the maneuver.
I think the free action or perform action while stressed options are the most likely ones amongst the ones suggested. Both behave the same way for all actions. Having it be spend a token to change a dice to a result doesn't mesh with the idea of color coding actions because it would only make sense with some actions.
10 minutes ago, Hiemfire said:Because the wording on the ship ability would have included Evade as well as Boost or Barrel Roll so it doesn't flow logically.
Perhaps the difference is you can do any number of purple actions by spending a force token for each, whereas the ship ability is only for a boost *or* barrel roll, you can't spend two tokens to do both. Or it could be the regenerate force token thing - you choose between an offensive or repositioning action, or a somewhat more boring evade but you get some force back. I don't think it will be that though, as you'd be getting back two per turn, as well as having an evade action, so your dice would just be on fire. But then, you are a Jedi...
I mean... spending it to take the action as a bonus action, regardless of being stressed would be cool. Best of both words there?
If you don’t complete your maneuver, you don’t have an action step, though, so I don’t know when they could have it proc if that were it.
1 minute ago, SpiderMana said:The do-it-while-stressed version doesn’t seem like a terribly unlikely idea, no, but it just feels less likely to me, I guess.
Lets see. The Delta 7 has 2 Sloops, 4 k and 5 k for its red maneuvers.
The ship ability (thank you J1mB0b for having the low res images we have so far on a black background so it is semi-readable) is: After you fully execute a maneuver, you may spend 1 (Force) to perform a Boost or Barrel Roll action.
With having to spend a force to be able to use the Evade or to use it as a linked action you lock out being able to do the squirrely combo you suggest on lower Init pilots. That doesn't really fit what I think Jedi were able to do. With it being able to do the action while stressed you open up the special maneuvers to the additional defensive possibility of being able to Sloop or K-Turn and have an evade. Very useful if you're setting up for the pass following and are not going to be able to shoot in the round, or if you prefer the guaranteed cancelation effect of an Evade over the maybe of a Focus or a Force.
I think we were probably right before, and it's not part of the ship ability because you can't boost and barrel roll and evade and still have a normal action for focus/target lock, but you can boost or barrel roll and evade and still have a normal action for focus/target lock/whichever boost-or-barrel-roll you didn't do.
Edited by mazz0The one thing I feel confident about is whatever the effect is, it will work the same for every action, so it won't be something like change a dice result to an evade, because it doesn't flow for every action and becomes non-sensical for some (unless they write special rules for every action which seems unlikely). So excluding ideas like that I think the following covers every idea we have heard:
Any other options we are missing that fits the initial criteria?
Honestly while I have been advocating option 1, writing them out and trying to describe the trigger, I am starting to think option 2 may be more likely. Either way I think both are interesting, and 3 would be the most flexible of all, but probably overpowered.
On 11/9/2018 at 4:51 PM, thespaceinvader said:3: Highly unlikely, they'd be absolutely useless on 1-force pilots, and the 1-force generic Jedi have them.
No, you could Supernatural Reflexes to Boost or Barrel Roll, move, Purple Evade, and get the Force back.
Given how well the rest of 2.0 has been balanced thus far, I fully expect these to be defined as: "If you perform a Purple Action, refresh one Force Point."
No way they are going to make a Jedi spend a Force Point to evade in what's one of the smallest and most maneuverable craft in the entirety of Star Wars lore.
41 minutes ago, AllWingsStandyingBy said:No way they are going to make a Jedi spend a Force Point to evade in what's one of the smallest and most maneuverable craft in the entirety of Star Wars lore.
Make them? No. Allow them to add an evade as a free action by spending a force point? Very plausible.
More to the point: you get to boost/barrel roll after completing your maneuver... for free, so long as you evade as your action?
That’s not full mods, no, but that would be overpowered in a much broader way compared to a few of the top Jedi being able to reposition/action/evade in one turn.
1 hour ago, GeneralVryth said:The one thing I feel confident about is whatever the effect is, it will work the same for every action, so it won't be something like change a dice result to an evade, because it doesn't flow for every action and becomes non-sensical for some (unless they write special rules for every action which seems unlikely). So excluding ideas like that I think the following covers every idea we have heard:
- A purple action can be preformed as a free action after completing another action at the cost of a Force token, or as a normal white action.
- A purple action can be preformed even while stressed at the cost of a Force token.
- A combination of 1 and 2.
- When you preform this action recharge a force token.
- A force token must be spent to use the action at all.
Any other options we are missing that fits the initial criteria?
Honestly while I have been advocating option 1, writing them out and trying to describe the trigger, I am starting to think option 2 may be more likely. Either way I think both are interesting, and 3 would be the most flexible of all, but probably overpowered.
What about being able to perform that action after partially completing a maneuver?
18 minutes ago, PaulRuddSays said:What about being able to perform that action after partially completing a maneuver?
In my mind this was a part of number 1, but when I tried to write it out, I couldn't find am elegant way to do it without it triggering off of something new or at any time which would be problematic. Putting it as a separate option we get:
Another more general way of writing number 1 to include number 3 I suppose could be: After executing a maneuver this action can be preformed as a bonus at the cost of 1 force point. Alternatively, this action may be preformed as a normal white action during the preform action stage.
How do we explain that neither the starter squadron box or the Aethersprite expansion include evade tokens for them? (The box only has 2 for the v-19's)
20 minutes ago, Mward1984 said:How do we explain that neither the starter squadron box or the Aethersprite expansion include evade tokens for them? (The box only has 2 for the v-19's)
My answer is not enough space. The stand alone expansion has 4 different ship tokens, and a plethora of other tokens and it's not like evade tokens are used nearly as often as focus tokens. Look at the striker stand alone expansion it doesn't have numbers or target locks. The starter on the other hand has 3 evade tokens in the picture if you look closely.
On 11/9/2018 at 10:35 PM, svelok said:3. Refreshes a force point.
Different kind of efficiency. Would mean Jedi Knights can spend to boost/roll, Evade and recover, and then a force point to spend as a mod. Doesn't really synergize with the Brilliant Evasion, which seems designed for Delta 7s, and doesn't do anything for Sheev on an Arc or whatever.
This is by far the most interesting idea for purple actions I have seen in this thread so far, as it allows you to do force shenanigans and still have a force token for dice modes if you did the right action. We still don't know what Sheev dose, but I am going to make an educated guess and say it will involve spending force (like every other force-user-crew in the game) and if that happens before the perform action step it would be quite useful to get a force beak for performing a coordinate.
10 hours ago, Duskwalker said:This is by far the most interesting idea for purple actions I have seen in this thread so far, as it allows you to do force shenanigans and still have a force token for dice modes if you did the right action. We still don't know what Sheev dose, but I am going to make an educated guess and say it will involve spending force (like every other force-user-crew in the game) and if that happens before the perform action step it would be quite useful to get a force beak for performing a coordinate.
Indeed. It's worth noting that none of the purple actions we've seen so far increase the performing ship's offence. That lends credence to the regenerating force points suggestion, I think, as it avoids super-modding.
Come to think of it, one argument against it being a bonus action: Why the ship ability AND the purple evade? Why not just include the evade as an optional ship ability action, or ditch the ship ability entirely and have boost and/or roll be a purple? Would be a much more elegant design.
13 hours ago, Mward1984 said:How do we explain that neither the starter squadron box or the Aethersprite expansion include evade tokens for them? (The box only has 2 for the v-19's)
You get Evades in the Core Set.
2 hours ago, Okapi said:Come to think of it, one argument against it being a bonus action: Why the ship ability AND the purple evade? Why not just include the evade as an optional ship ability action, or ditch the ship ability entirely and have boost and/or roll be a purple? Would be a much more elegant design.
Because then you could spend three force to focus, evade, boost and barrel roll, this way you can only do three of those.
6 hours ago, Okapi said:Come to think of it, one argument against it being a bonus action: Why the ship ability AND the purple evade? Why not just include the evade as an optional ship ability action, or ditch the ship ability entirely and have boost and/or roll be a purple? Would be a much more elegant design.
I’m starting to like this idea more. It would make Battle Meditation much more thematic, being a purple coordinate, and Palpatine could certainly have an ability that spends his force charge before the action step.
Regenerating a force by doing something that helps seems broken, and contrary to 2nd’s design philosophy. The only thing that makes me think it might be the case is the symmetry, do a red action, gain this token, do a purple action, gain this other token.
4 minutes ago, Forgottenlore said:Regenerating a force by doing something that helps seems broken, and contrary to 2nd’s design philosophy. The only thing that makes me think it might be the case is the symmetry, do a red action, gain this token, do a purple action, gain this other token.
No more OP than spending the force to take a bonus action. Either you have the force point and an evade token, or you have no force point, an evade, and a focus. Obviously that ends up looking a little different on pilots with more than one force charge, depending on their use of the ship ability, but.
Great. 2 Waves and already a new mechanic. I wonder how long it will take FFG to jettison the Wave 1 and 2 ships that dont have these "force" actions.
Vader and Evade. No too strong. But hold my beer. Anakin is coming!
2 minutes ago, beardxofxdeath said:Great. 2 Waves and already a new mechanic. I wonder how long it will take FFG to jettison the Wave 1 and 2 ships that dont have these "force" actions.
Vader and Evade. No too strong. But hold my beer. Anakin is coming!
We don't even know what it does yet, though. It might not be very fancy.
8 minutes ago, beardxofxdeath said:Great. 2 Waves and already a new mechanic. I wonder how long it will take FFG to jettison the Wave 1 and 2 ships that dont have these "force" actions.
Vader and Evade. No too strong. But hold my beer. Anakin is coming!
It’s also a purple action on the ship. They’re not adding it to certain pilots.
The Empire has a ship with almost entirely force-user pilots, but not quite.
Just to make sure everyone is on the same page,
the “regens a force point” idea is that “during your perform action step, you can do any of your actions like normal, but if you do “this” action, you get a force point back”
while the free action idea is “you do an action as normal, and then can spend a force point to do “this” action, pseudo push the limit like”
right?