2 hours ago, Tobbert said:

2 hours ago, Tobbert said:

Are Interceptors bad even if you play a ship with coordinate as a support? You can get 3 actions without being stressed, which doesn't seem to bad. Of course, you can't do it every turn, but it seems strong anyway.

I don't know...for a support ship it's Not so easy to stay near to an interceptor.

And more than this:

There are ships more usefull to be coordinated that very enhance ther offencive output thanks to coordinate.

I think that If i would do like you said, it means that i start building a squad with 2 ships on 3/4/5 (depending on the list) that doesn't "push through" damages

If you are ok with this there is no problem.

So i fell interceptors more like a filler... not something i can build on my strategy

4 hours ago, GeneralVryth said:

Interceptors while not perfect are pretty good (This coming from an Interceptor fan who wants to see them be good). A couple more aces, a decent mod or two, and/or a slight reduction in cost for Stealth Device and Hull/Shield upgrades for high Agi ships would be ideal. But even now they work pretty well. Sabers can outmaneuver almost anything besides Aces if you have Second Player and Soontir is solid just being I6 with how cheap he is. Which when you think about the situation overall most ships (at least for the Imperials) tend fall in to th  is scenario, they are pretty good, but could be made better (without being overpowered) with a couple small tweaks and have at least 1 solid pilot.

So they "only" need:

- more aces (where is a decent IN5 ace or two of them?)

- decent mods

- slight reduction in costs for SD, Hull Upgrade and Shield Upgrade

Seems like they are not really that great at all.

Soontir is not a real ace anymore. If I arcdodge with him I have nothing in arc 50% of the time. If I attack and want to stay alive I have to attack mostly without mods.

Turr would be ok - if his INI didnt suck. 4 is such a awkward spot for a agile ace like the Interceptor. He cant arcdodge in the activation phase and against nearly REAL ace his ability is useless. If he already boosted or barrel rolled his ability is useless. I really want him to be good. But I feel he will die even faster then Soontir.

The non-unique pilots are ok. But I don´t like playing nameless nobodies. But thats just a personal preference.

5 hours ago, Tobbert said:

Are Interceptors bad even if you play a ship with coordinate as a support? You can get 3 actions without being stressed, which doesn't seem to bad. Of course, you can't do it every turn, but it seems strong anyway.

the problem is keeping that support ship close enough,

8 hours ago, Icelom said:

Lastly there are no top lists yet, the meta is no where near formed.

I would say most of the power combos have already been identified / confirmed.

Generic Interceptors could be up there as a part of Sloan Swarm, although pretty much any decent generic ship would probably do well with Sloan..

It's not like I want to (and probably need to) coordinate the Intercepter each turn. As long as I am out of arc, I don't need to do red actions, so I don't need to coordinate before activating the interceptor.

Using the TIE Reaper as a support ship, I should be able to get in range whenever I need to dodge arcs, if I fly it correctly.

I will definitely try this combo, it costs about 110 points before upgrades, which doesn't seem too expensive.

The Interceptor is exactly at the same equivalent spot it was at the beginning of the 1st edition. A nice ship maybe in the first 3-4 waves, but steadily obsoleting as the powercreep creeps.

Soontir being used cheap is not a 'buff'. It's a logical standpoint decision of not investing too many points on a ship that can blow (and certainly will at some point during the match) with a single shot. So, don't lie yourselves or others about the 'cheapness' of interceptors. You, like everyone else, are just afraid of losing too many points, and a ship, in a single salvo.

Interceptors, specially Soontir, were more survivable in 1.0, hence why people invested more points on them.

8 hours ago, Okapi said:

As for A-Wings, they could also benefit from a boosty mod

? Afterburners, or is the 2 charge limit + price tag a turnoff?

Oops. no mod slot... Hmmm.

The problem with both of these ships are intentional design decisions to weaken them, relative to the power curve of 2.0. The interceptor should really have had an extra hull point to protect against getting one-shotted because it's frankly nonsense any time that happens in this game. On the other hand, the A-Wing arbitrarily has a weaker autothrusters for no reason and has had any of its ace capabilities removed. It seems like FFG did not trust in their own ability to balance through points and just preemptively nerfed them. But it's kind of dumb because, realistically, a T H I C Cer interceptor would not be much more difficult to deal with nor would the A-Wing suddenly become a terror if it was a true ace platform. Also the lack of a Rebel A-Wing in this upcoming wave really does mean that they are just going to keep being mediocre for a long time, as the problem with both of these ships isn't in the points.

I'm not giving up on all hope that an A-wing/Interceptor refresh isn't coming soon. They appear to be having a pretty aggressive release schedule. I think clones are first quarter. I wouldn't doubt it if we didn't get wave "4" a month or so after. We are supposed to have resistance/FO at the end of this month (or so is the rumor) and Clones right around Christmas time I think, or early January. So February/March for RZ1 refresh is aok for me. Besides I'll be going nuts with my RZ2 and Delta7's to keep me occupied until then.

12 minutes ago, Wiredin said:

I'm not giving up on all hope that an A-wing/Interceptor refresh isn't coming soon. They appear to be having a pretty aggressive release schedule. I think clones are first quarter. I wouldn't doubt it if we didn't get wave "4" a month or so after. We are supposed to have resistance/FO at the end of this month (or so is the rumor) and Clones right around Christmas time I think, or early January. So February/March for RZ1 refresh is aok for me. Besides I'll be going nuts with my RZ2 and Delta7's to keep me occupied until then.

A release a month?? Not seeing it, one a quarter maybe.

3 hours ago, Darth evil said:

the problem is keeping that support ship close enough,

Reapers are fast, just bring an Officer along. Or you could try Duchess with Squad Leader.

On 11/9/2018 at 11:50 AM, Darth evil said:

If the new article showed us anything, it's that the repacks will have nothing that the conversion kits didn't which means the Tie Interceptor and A-wing are really stuck with the current pilots and that FFg will have no choice but to make Aces packs again even though they said they didn't have any intention to do so.

Yeah, not necessarily. There were clearly some ships that got more work and are more "complete" than others in the conversion packs. I would be shocked if the OT ships don't end up with at least 6 different pilots.

4 hours ago, beardxofxdeath said:

So they "only" need:

- more aces (where is a decent IN5 ace or two of them?)

- decent mods

- slight reduction in costs for SD, Hull Upgrade and Shield Upgrade

Seems like they are not really that great at all.

Soontir is not a real ace anymore. If I arcdodge with him I have nothing in arc 50% of the time. If I attack and want to stay alive I have to attack mostly without mods.

Turr would be ok - if his INI didnt suck. 4 is such a awkward spot for a agile ace like the Interceptor. He cant arcdodge in the activation phase and against nearly REAL ace his ability is useless. If he already boosted or barrel rolled his ability is useless. I really want him to be good. But I feel he will die even faster then Soontir.

The non-unique pilots are ok. But I don´t like playing nameless nobodies. But thats just a personal preference.

There is a difference between being ideal and good enough. An ideal ship has lots of pilots that are competitive with one another and overall, with lots of different ways to outfit it. A good enough ship has 1 or 2 pilots that are competitive with a couple ways to outfit it (competitive in this case doesn't mean top tier tournament competitive, just a more casual competitive. it doesn't feel like a chore to play and can fulfill its role).

The Interceptor is definitely in the good enough category, it has room to improve, but it has solid uses as well. Compare it to the X-wing which I would place in the ideal category, it has lots pilots that fulfill their role and are competitive with one another, and lots of different ways to outfit them depending on what exactly you want them to do.

23 minutes ago, Sithborg said:

Yeah, not necessarily. There were clearly some ships that got more work and are more "complete" than others in the conversion packs. I would be shocked if the OT ships don't end up with at least 6 different pilots.

That's my expectation as well. And I think Wave 4 is my guess when we might see re-releases for the Interceptor and A-wing with new pilots as well.

Reading this thread makes me feel like my playstyle is very different than many players.

perhaps these ships are just not for you?

13 minutes ago, Icelom said:

Reading this thread makes me feel like my playstyle is very different than many players.

perhaps these ships are just not for you?

I agree. I fly A-wings all the time and I have no problems with them. Even my locals tell me that they are bad... but then why do I beat you with them?

1 hour ago, ThinkingB said:

The problem with both of these ships are intentional design decisions to weaken them, relative to the power curve of 2.0. The interceptor should really have had an extra hull point to protect against getting one-shotted because it's frankly nonsense any time that happens in this game. On the other han  d, the A-Wing arbitrarily has a weaker autothrusters for no reason and has had any of its ace capabilities removed. It seems like FFG did not trust in their own ability to balance through points and just preemptively nerfed them. But  it's kind of dumb because, realistically, a T H I C Cer interceptor would not be much more difficult to deal with nor would the A-Wing suddenly become a terror if it was a true ace platform. Also the lack of a Rebel A-Wing in this upcoming wave really d  oes mean that they are just going to keep being mediocre for a long time, as the problem with both of these ships isn't in the points.

They were not that careful with the Fang Fighter. One of the Empire players of our gaming group finally gave up trying to make Soontir work and now just bought into scum and flies Fenn Rau and Old Terroch. With great success. Suddenly he starts winning. They are just more worth their points. Yeah, they are more expensive. But slap a Hull Upgrade on Soontir und you have nearly the same cost. Only that the Fang Fighters abilities dont suck in comparsion.

9 minutes ago, beardxofxdeath said:

They were not that careful with the Fang Fighter. One of the Empire players of our gaming group finally gave up trying to make Soontir work and now just bought into scum and flies Fenn Rau and Old Terroch. With great success. Suddenly he starts winning. They are just more worth their points. Yeah, they are more expensive. But slap a Hull Upgrade on Soontir und you have nearly the same cost. Only that the Fang Fighters abilities dont suck in comparsion.

Alpha Squadron Pilot (34)
Hull Upgrade (7)

Total: 41

Zealous Recruit (44)

Total: 44

Hmm. Now at same hull (though you could slot in a critless shield instead and still come out cheaper). ASP can boost or barrel roll off of any action so long as it isn't the same action. ZR has a free evade at near point blank while nose to nose with the target and linked to red focuses...

ASP is 3 pts cheaper but can mimic everything other than the Concordia Faceoff free evade result...

The same effect is applied up the list for the different pilots with the cost difference actually growing... Your mate figured out that you guys like to go head to head. Stop face hugging the bloody Fangs...

Interceptors aren't at all in a bad place. Could they be better? Sure, but most folks don't think they're in problem-ship territory. Autothrusters being a baseline Push the Limit is a huge improvement over 1e, in my mind. It really makes an interceptor at any price point feel special, like it can actually accomplish something. It can go wrong, but there is so much more potential.

• Alphas are great filler pieces, with a decent gun, two actions a turn, and are one of the best blockers.
• Sabers can block aces, or arc dodge generics.
• Turr... I feel like Turr is a little lacking (at Init 5 he'd be wicked sweet), but he's cheap.
• Soontir is very much a feast-or-famine pilot. Fly right, and he's a beast for his 52 point cost. But he can die in a single round pretty easily.

They have a role (block or arc dodge), they do it well, and they aren't overpriced. The skill requirements certainly went up. Mistakes are a lot more costly on them than in 1e (no token stacking if you land in a position you can't escape, no blank fixes for the green dice), but it's possible to arc-dodge "turrets" now. Not always easy to do so, but possible.

They kind of seem like the epitome of what a lot of us wanted from 2e: that piloting matters, and that they've got almost limitless potential, but failure is punished.

//

A-Wings are in a bad place. The Aces are really low initiative. Jake can get two actions without stress, or a very specific three actions with stress. That's really pretty good. But he's Init 4, in an Init 5 world. Whisper and Redline and Luke and Kavil and Old Terroch and Rexler Brath all beat his initiative, and so he's in a rough spot.

Generic A-Wings can't do damage. They're in kind of a similar sad spot to a lot of the other 2-red dice missile ships: M3-A Scyks, TIE Advanced Prototype v1, TIE Advanced x1, TIE Aggressor, in that they probably just need to be 2 points cheaper.

A-Wings, however, don't really have a role they can perform well. Blockers? Kinda, but not as well as other factions. Missiles? Not really. Arc dodgy aces? No damage. On top of this, they're a bit too expensive. Is Intimidation Arvel Crynyd pretty cool? Sure, but he's almost surely not even close to Sabine Wren at the price.

12 minutes ago, theBitterFig said:

Interceptors aren't at all in a bad place. Could they be better? Sure, but most folks don't think they're in problem-ship territory. Autothrusters being a baseline Push the Limit is a huge improvement over 1e, in my mind. It really makes an interceptor at any price point feel special, like it can actually accomplish something. It can go wrong, but there is so much more potential.

• Alphas are great filler pieces, with a decent gun, two actions a turn, and are one of the best blockers.
• Sabers can block aces, or arc dodge generics.
• Turr... I feel like Turr is a little lacking (at Init 5 he'd be wicked sweet), but he's cheap.
• Soontir is very much a feast-or-famine pilot. Fly right, and he's a beast for his 52 point cost. But he can die in a single round pretty easily.

They have a role (block or arc dodge), they do it well, and they aren't overpriced. The skill floor certainly went up. Mistakes are a lot more costly on them than in 1e (no token stacking if you land in a position you can't escape, no blank fixes for the green dice), but it's possible to arc-dodge "turrets" now. Not always easy to do so, but possible.

They kind of seem like the epitome of what a lot of us wanted from 2e: that piloting matters, and that they've got almost limitless potential, but failure is punished.

This rings so true.

High skill ceiling ship... Takes very good flying skills but if you are good flying them they are fantastic.

19 hours ago, Icelom said:

I think the interceptor is fantastic... I have had nothing but good experiences flying soontir, and the alpha squadron pilot is fantastic like "holy **** this ship is **** good" fantastic.

My a-wing experience is much less but it has felt good in the games I have played it.

I guess I just disagree?

The interceptor got such a massive buff in second edition and I am really liking where it is. Just because it does not fit your playstyle does not make it bad.

What do you like best about the Alpha Squaddie?

6 hours ago, Jehan Menasis said:

Interceptors  , specially Soontir, were more survivable in 1.0, hence why people invested more points on them.  

You can take elusive, hull upgrade and stealth device on 2.0 Soontir for 70pts (35pts in 1.0 - same price as the only viable 1.0 Soontir). This version can also arc dodge turrets and get a focus even when blocked, things 1.0 Fel could not do. If all you want Soontir to do is survive, he can actually do that better. However, in 2.0, you won't win games that way. Those 18 points of upgrades can be used to augment your offense, including predator on Soontir (Oh yeah, Soontir can take whatever ept he wants now). Meanwhile, Soontir without upgrades can have a big impact on a game without losing you a third of your list because your green dice failed you.

8 minutes ago, hargleblarg said:

You can take elusive, hull upgrade and stealth device on 2.0 Soontir for 70pts (35pts in 1.0 - same price as the only viable 1.0 Soontir). This version can also arc dodge turrets and get a focus even when blocked, things 1.0 Fel could not do. If all you want Soontir to do is survive, he can actually do that better.

Negative.

Soontir in 2.0 is going to get crippled if he gets caught in arcs, even in range 3. And it doesn't matter how many junky 2.0 upgrades you put on him.

He's no match in survavibility to his 1.0 version with Autothrusters and possibility of double focus + evade token stack (and possibly also Palp), who could have completely evaded fully modified ordnance attacks.

2 minutes ago, baranidlo said:

Negative.

Soontir in 2.0 is going to get crippled if he gets caught in arcs, even in range 3. And it doesn't matter how many junky 2.0 upgrades you put on him.

He's no match in survavibility to his 1.0 version with Autothrusters and possibility of double focus + evade token stack (and possibly also Palp), who could have completely evaded fully modified ordnance attacks.

Don't fly into arcs! It sounds like you are lamenting you can't be lazy flying Soontir. If your opponent is shooting torps at you, then the error is yours.

1 minute ago, hargleblarg said:

Don't fly into arcs! It sounds like you are lamenting you can't be lazy flying Soontir. If your opponent is shooting torps at you, then the error is yours.

I thought we were discussing his survavibility, not arc dodging.

And his survavibility against attacks is definitely much much lower in 2.0.

2 minutes ago, baranidlo said:

I thought we were discussing his survavibility, not arc dodging.

And his survavibility against attacks is definitely much much lower in 2.0.

His survivability IS arc dodging. It always has been. If your game plan was to shove Soontir into your opponent's face, then you were and are playing him wrong.