1 hour ago, joeshmoe554 said:

When FFG makes a device similar to this fan-made upgrade , then Deathfire will be able to launch that device. If Deathfire only said that you could drop a device then he would be unable to launch this Jam Jar, but since his text says he can drop or launch a device then he could either drop one of the current devices or launch a Jam Jar upon dying.

Again, this is not a real upgrade . Merely an example of a potential device that follows all of the existing rules of X-Wing Second edition.

WW I, I believe the Brits did it but used tins rather than jars. ☺️

21 minutes ago, Stoneface said:

Sorry I kicked this ant hill.

No @Stoneface you asked politely and argued fairly don't be sorry it's not you that's going nuts over this.

Nothing wrong with asking for a clarification on why a rule works a certain way.

7 minutes ago, Stoneface said:

WW I, I believe the Brits did it but used tins rather than jars. ☺️

For... jam?

No.

3 minutes ago, thespaceinvader said:

For... jam?

No.

Improvised mortar rounds.

32 minutes ago, Stoneface said:

Improvised mortar rounds.

...

You need to watch Spaceballs (again?)

1 hour ago, Icelom said:

No @Stoneface you asked politely and argued fairly don't be sorry it's not you that's going nuts over this.

Nothing wrong with asking for a clarification on why a rule works a certain way.

Thanks, I appreciate the comment. I do have a couple of observations.

1. In 1e you could launch bombs but not mines. Traj SIM for 2e species bombs. I think this is notable because bombs and mines are now classified as devices. Somebody previously mentioned that there was nothing to prevent launching anything. This may not be correct. I think FFG failed to include this distinction in the RRG.

2. The question asked about Deathfire' death shot was,"can he launch something that normally can't be launched? So the answer provided may not be entirely germain to the original post.

3. The wording on the Deathfire card implies he can launch at death. The device cards indicate which templates are to be used for a drop so it's not a stretch to figure that he could use a 1 straight to launch a bomb. My opinion only. It could be a matter or future proofing but that's an assumption also.

The phrase "Do what the card says..." gets thrown about a lot but there seems to be a lot of exceptions to that adage.

Edit. Did some more checking. The device cards are marked bomb and mine so as written Traj SIM won't work for mines. Because FFG used drop or launch in the description under Mines there might be an upgrade in the future that allows a mine launch. Or they just cut and pasted.

22 minutes ago, thespaceinvader said:

...

You need to watch Spaceballs (again?)

It's been many years. My wife was not a big sci-fi fan so much of the humor was lost on her.

18 minutes ago, Stoneface said:

Thanks, I appreciate the comment. I do have a couple of observations.

1. In 1e you could launch bombs but not mines. Traj SIM for 2e species bombs. I think this is notable because bombs and mines are now classified as devices. Somebody previously mentioned that there was nothing to prevent launching anything. This may not be correct. I think FFG failed to include this distinction in the RRG.

2. The question asked about Deathfire' death shot was,"can he launch something that normally can't be launched? So the answer provided may not be entirely germain to the original post.

3. The wording on the Deathfire card implies he can launch at death. The device cards indicate which templates are to be used for a drop so it's not a stretch to figure that he could use a 1 straight to launch a bomb. My opinion only. It could be a matter or future proofing but that's an assumption also.

The phrase "Do what the card says..." gets thrown about a lot but there seems to be a lot of exceptions to that adage.

There is no exception.

You do what the card says. You try to launch. Nothing tells you what template to use, so you fail.

In trying to use a 1 straight, you're doing something not written on the cards or in the rules, because you assume that's how they should work.

26 minutes ago, Stoneface said:

1. In 1e you could launch bombs but not mines. Traj SIM for 2e species bombs. I think this is notable because bombs and mines are now classified as devices. Somebody previously mentioned that there was nothing to prevent launching anything. This may not be correct. I think FFG failed to include this distinction in the RRG.

It was me and there is nothing "not correct". Constable Zuvio can launch mine, this is not an error or a copy paste. I suggest you read everything in a post before arguing, we already said all that...

26 minutes ago, Stoneface said:

3. The wording on the Deathfire card implies he can launch at death. The device cards indicate which templates are to be used for a drop so it's not a stretch to figure that he could use a 1 straight to launch a bomb. My opinion only. It could be a matter or future proofing but that's an assumption also.

Yes it is a stretch, because the two card that let you launch, Trajectory Simulator and Constable Zuvio, tell you exactly which template to use to launch, why would Deathfire be any different and suddenly don't need to specify the template

2 minutes ago, thespaceinvader said:

There is no exception.

You do what the card says. You try to launch. Nothing tells you what template to use, so you fail.

In trying to use a 1 straight, you're doing something not written on the cards or in the rules, because you assume that's how they should work.

This is where I have a problem with your argument. Every bomb card I have says to use the one straight to drop. Now before the "AHA" moment this makes total sense BECAUSE not every pilot has the ability to launch mines or bombs. Isn't it better to use text on an upgrade that everybody that can carry devices can use?

5 minutes ago, muribundi said:

It was me and there is nothing "not correct". Constable Zuvio can launch mine, this is not an error or a copy paste. I suggest you read everything in a post before arguing, we already said all that...

Yes it is a stretch, because the two card that let you launch, Trajectory Simulator and Constable Zuvio, tell you exactly which template to use to launch, why would Deathfire be any different and suddenly don't need to specify the template

I said May not be correct . Didn't say it was incorrect. Currently, of all the pilots and ships that can carry, drop or launch devices, Zuvio is the only one that can launch a mine. That might be the reason it's written to use the one straight.

I'd like to hear your thoughts on FFG' s answer to the question of Deathfire' s death shot. It doesn't say he can't launch a device only that he can't launch something that normally can't be launched.

17 minutes ago, Stoneface said:

This is where I have a problem with your argument. Every bomb card I have says to use the one straight to drop. Now before the "AHA" moment this makes total sense BECAUSE not every pilot has the ability to launch mines or bombs. Isn't it better to use text on an upgrade that everybody that can carry devices can use?

It says use the 1 straight to drop.

It says nothign whatsoever about launching.

You are assumign something the cards do not say.

18 minutes ago, Stoneface said:

Currently, of all the pilots and ships that can carry, drop or launch devices, Zuvio is the only one that can launch a mine. That might be the reason it's written to use the one straight.

I'd like to hear your thoughts on FFG' s answer to the question of Deathfire' s death shot. It doesn't say he can't launch a device only that he can't launch something that normally can't be launched.

No the reason is that there is no intrinsic template to use to drop or to launch device, every upgrade must state which one to use.

My thought is, if a device have rules that say it can be launched, then deathfires can launch it with is trigger. There is no device that can be launched, so it can't launch any device for now.

40 minutes ago, thespaceinvader said:

It says use the 1 straight to drop.

It says nothign whatsoever about launching.

You are assumign something the cards do not say.

Deathfire does say launch. How do we reconcile his stated ability with his inability to execute that ability? If you say future proofing, that's a possibility but calls for an assumption. It could be an error, another possibility, but would indicate that FFG learned nothing from first edition.

Because when they don't state limit, you have to use what the rules say for upgrade and launch. Exactly like the attack, it does not state the limit of the attack, because when you attack you have to follow these. There is device that can be drop and there is device that can be launch, it can use the two, according to the rules of launching this device or dropping this device.

39 minutes ago, muribundi said:

No the reason is that there is no intrinsic template to use to drop or to launch device, every upgrade must state which one to use.

My thought is, if a device have rules that say it can be launched, then deathfires can launch it with is trigger. There is no device that can be launched, so it can't launch any device for now.

Each device currently in service uses the one straight. Unless there's a card or rule that alters that, it is the default template or until a new device enters the game.

You state that no device can be launched so it can't launched any device. But what about the rules? Under the headings of Device, Bomb or Mine the rules state that each device, bomb or mine can be launched or dropped.

15 minutes ago, Stoneface said:

Deathfire does say launch. How do we reconcile his stated ability with his inability to execute that ability? If you say future proofing, that's a possibility but calls for an assumption. It could be an error, another possibility, but would indicate that FFG learned nothing from first edition.

In exactly the same way that, for instance, you wouldn't be able to use a Torpedo on a non-locked target just because he says you can attack.

Also, I ask again: quote a rule that says what template to use when launching.

Not when dropping, when launching.

THere is no such rule.

Just now, muribundi said:

Because when they don't state limit, you have to use what the rules say for upgrade and launch. Exactly like the attack, it does not state the limit of the attack, because when you attack you have to follow these. There is device that can be drop and there is device that can be launch, it can use the two, according to the rules of launching this device or dropping this device.

But Deathfire can't use Traj SIM.

6 minutes ago, Stoneface said:

Each device currently in service uses the one straight. Unless there's a card or rule that alters that, it is the default template or until a new device enters the game.

You state that no device can be launched so it can't launched any device. But what about the rules? Under the headings of Device, Bomb or Mine the rules state that each device, bomb or mine can be launched or dropped.

No, the fact that every device say so does not make it a default, default is when it is stated in the rules.

No device on its upgrade card say it can be launched. The fact that rules say device can be launched does not mean every device created are launchable. It just mean, it could happen, there could be upgrade that would be launched.

Dummy post

1 minute ago, thespaceinvader said:

In exactly the same way that, for instance, you wouldn't be able to use a Torpedo on a non-locked target just because he says you can attack.

But the torpedo card carries the restrictions of range and lock or focus. The device cards also carry the restriction of the one straight. True, it does say drop and not drop or launch. Which makes sense because launching isn't a universal ability.

9 minutes ago, Stoneface said:

True, it does say drop and not drop or launch

This should be all you need.

If it meant launch, it would say launch.

6 minutes ago, muribundi said:

No, the fact that every device say so does not make it a default, default is when it is stated in the rules.

No device on its upgrade card say it can be launched. The fact that rules say device can be launched does not mean every device created are launchable. It just mean, it could happen, there could be upgrade that would be launched.

I understand your arguments and they are very persuasive. If I had less faith in FFG, I'd be swayed but they did say drop or launch. I'd like to think it wasnt a cut and paste booboo.

Would you argue that Deathfire's ability allows you to drop a theoretical device that is normally only launched?

it's not a typo. You're allowed to drop or launch devices. But the ability alone isn't enough to let you launch something that can't be launched, in the same way that a cluster missile bonus attack doesn't let you attack someone out of arc.