When Deathfire dies And he is able to drop or launch A device. Does he only get to Launch a device Using the one template or can he used the 5 template. This came up last night and I was not sure which way it goes. Since card does not say one way or the other.

Thank you for your help.

There are no devices which he can launch currently. That part of his text doesn't work, and won't until a device is published which can be launched by default.

3 hours ago, thespaceinvader said:

There are no devices which he can launch currently. That part of his text doesn't work, and won't until a device is published which can be launched by default.

I think you might be incorrect on this. The RRG Appendix shows a Punisher using Trajectory Simulator to launch a Proton Bomb. I'm assuming from this, that bombs can be launched but mines, Conner Nets and loose cargo can't.

1 hour ago, Stoneface said:

I think you might be incorrect on this. The RRG Appendix shows a Punisher using Trajectory Simulator to launch a Proton Bomb. I'm assuming from this, that bombs can be launched but mines, Conner Nets and loose cargo can't.

They can be launched using a trajectory simulator.

That only works during the system phase.

So the only way for

To launch on death is if he dies in the system phase and could equip a trajectory simulator and he can't even equip a trajectory simulator.

There is no devices that can be launched without the trajectory simulator currently so deathfire has nothing that can be launched when he dies (yet).

30 minutes ago, Stoneface said:

I think you might be incorrect on this. The RRG Appendix shows a Punisher using Trajectory Simulator to launch a Proton Bomb. I'm assuming from this, that bombs can be launched but mines, Conner Nets and loose cargo can't.

You are assuming wrong, mine can in fact be launched... There is absolutely no rules that prevent anything from being launched. You just need a rules that say that you can launch it, I suggest you go read Constable Zuvio...

34 minutes ago, Icelom said:

They can be launched using a trajectory simulator.

That only works during the system phase.

So the only way for

To launch on death is if he dies in the system phase (and I don't think there is a way to die in the system phase).

There is no devices that can be launched without the trajectory simulator currently so deathfire has nothing that can be launched when he dies (yet).

He also can't use TSim.

This topic has been discussed to death(!) - Deathfire's ability lets him use the text on an equipped device upgrade. If that text says he can drop the device, he can drop it. If that tezxt says he can launch it, he can launch it.

Further evidence that he can't launch it is that nothing says what template he should use. The upgrades themselves say what template to use, there's no default.

49 minutes ago, thespaceinvader said:

He also can't use TSim.

1

Thanks, did not even cross my mind as you cant launch when he dies even if he could equip it.

15 hours ago, Icelom said:

They can be launched using a trajectory simulator.

That only works during the system phase.

So the only way for

To launch on death is if he dies in the system phase and could equip a trajectory simulator and he can't even equip a trajectory simulator.

There is no devices that can be launched without the trajectory simulator currently so deathfire has nothing that can be launched when he dies (yet).

Just to be clear, can Deathfire drop a device outside of the System Phase if he is destroyed?

Just now, Stoneface said:

Just to be clear, can Deathfire drop a device outside of the System Phase if he is destroyed?

Yes, as per his ability.

The reason he can't launch one is he has no way to launch a device. If there was a device that could be launched then he could do that (as per his ability) but since there are no devices that can be launched he cannot launch anything.

Currently, there are only 2 ways to launch a device.

Both of those ways explain to you that you can launch instead of drop and how to launch the device.

Deathfire does not replace a drop with a launch or explain in any way how to launch, therefore you need something that can be launched for his ability to launch it (and again there is nothing in the game currently that is a launched device).

I hope this explains everything well enough.

2 minutes ago, Icelom said:

Yes, as per his ability.

The reason he can't launch one is he has no way to launch a device. If there was a device that could be launched then he could do that (as per his ability) but since there are no devices that can be launched he cannot launch anything.

Currently, there are only 2 ways to launch a device.

Both of those ways explain to you that you can launch instead of drop and how to launch the device.

Deathfire does not replace a drop with a launch or explain in any way how to launch, therefore you need something that can be launched for his ability to launch it (and again there is nothing in the game currently that is a launched device).

I hope this explains everything well enough.

One last question. On page 9 of the RRG under devices, it gives instructions on how to drop and launch those devices. Wouldn't Deathfire' s pilot ability allow him to launch a device using the 1 straight template? It seems, to me at least, that his ability and the constable' s is pretty much the same only stated a little differently.

Just now, Stoneface said:

One last question. On page 9 of the RRG under devices, it gives instructions on how to drop and launch those devices. Wouldn't Deathfire' s pilot ability allow him to launch a device using the 1 straight template? It seems, to me at least, that his ability and the constable' s is pretty much the same only stated a little differently.

Exactly!

No nebulous mention of 'futureproofing' or arguing non-existent 'intent', however, good luck in getting some of the more, militant, members to accept this.

3 minutes ago, Damo1701 said:

Exactly!

No nebulous mention of 'futureproofing' or arguing non-existent 'intent', however, good luck in getting some of the more, militant, members to accept this.

Sometimes the more experienced players have a better grasp of the differences in the way FFG presents abilities. There were more than a few first edition cards that were dissected because of verbiage used.

33 minutes ago, Stoneface said:

One last question. On page 9 of the RRG under devices, it gives instructions on how to drop and launch those devices. Wouldn't Deathfire' s pilot ability allow him to launch a device using the 1 straight template? It seems, to me at least, that his ability and the constable' s is pretty much the same only stated a little differently.

Please quote which template it indicates should be used.

I'll wait.

48 minutes ago, Stoneface said:

One last question. On page 9 of the RRG under devices, it gives instructions on how to drop and launch those devices. Wouldn't Deathfire' s pilot ability allow him to launch a device using the 1 straight template? It seems, to me at least, that his ability and the constable' s is pretty much the same only stated a little differently.

Where on page 9 does it say to use a 1 straight? No where.

It says to "1. Take the template indicated on the upgrade card." - Page 9 of the rules reference.

None of the devices have a launch template indicated...

All of those cards say use a 1 straight to "drop" none of them have anything listed for launch.

Deathfire does not say you can launch instead of dropping like the 2 other cards do (deathfire and constable zuvio are worded very differently not "pretty much the same"). Deathfire does not have a way to change a dropped thing into a launched thing like they do.

So there is nothing currently that he can launch on death.

By your logic he should be able to attack out of arc and beyond range 3 when he dies because it says "he can attack" so therefore all rules about attacking can be ignored to force that attack. It makes no sense.

1 hour ago, Icelom said:

Where on page 9 does it say to use a 1 straight? No where.

It says to "1. Take the template indicated on the upgrade card." - Page 9 of the rules reference.

None of the devices have a launch template indicated...

All of those cards say use a 1 straight to "drop" none of them have anything listed for launch.

Deathfire does not say you can launch instead of dropping like the 2 other cards do (deathfire and constable zuvio are worded very differently not "pretty much the same"). Deathfire does not have a way to change a dropped thing into a launched thing like they do.

So there is nothing currently that he can launch on death.

By your logic he should be able to attack out of arc and beyond range 3 when he dies because it says "he can attack" so therefore all rules about attacking can be ignored to force that attack. It makes no sense.

By your logic, we'll just pick apart a well reasoned and referenced post, because we don't like a pilot ability, shall we?

The simple answer has always been to follow the rules.

1) Deathfire is allowed a post-destruction launch, explicitly stated on his pilot card.

2) Rules Reference tells us exactly how to handle a launch.

3) Device upgrade card tells us how to deploy said device.

Deathfire is providing an exception to the device card with the explicit wording of 'launch' so can deploy this device out of his front guides.

No interpretation needed.

21 minutes ago, Damo1701 said:

No interpretation needed.

This was addressed in the official rules thread. Deathfire cannot launch devices that cannot normally be launched. Its explicitly stated in the rules, however you interpret what the card says.

49 minutes ago, Damo1701 said:

By your logic, we'll just pick apart a well reasoned and referenced post, because we don't like a pilot ability, shall we?

The simple answer has always been to follow the rules.

1) Deathfire is allowed a post-destruction launch, explicitly stated on his pilot card.

2) Rules Reference tells us exactly how to handle a launch.

3) Device upgrade card tells us how to deploy said device.

Deathfire is providing an exception to the device card with the explicit wording of 'launch' so can deploy this device out of his front guides.

No interpretation needed.

How are people still arguing about this when there's an official answer from FFG stating you can't do it. I mean you're right, no interpretation is needed as this exact question has already be conclusively answered.

55 minutes ago, Damo1701 said:

By your logic, we'll just pick apart a well reasoned and referenced post, because we don't like a pilot ability, shall we?

The simple answer has always been to follow the rules.

1) Deathfire is allowed a post-destruction launch, explicitly stated on his pilot card.

2) Rules Reference tells us exactly how to handle a launch.

3) Device upgrade card tells us how to deploy said device.

Deathfire is providing an exception to the device card with the explicit wording of 'launch' so can deploy this device out of his front guides.

No interpretation needed.

wishful thinking is not rules as written, though. ?

50 minutes ago, AramoroA said:

How are people still arguing about this when there's an official answer from FFG stating you can't do it. I mean you're right, no interpretation is needed as this exact question has already be conclusively answered.

So, a card that says I CAN launch, ACTUALLY needs that section removing does it?

Where is the rules reference update for this please, so I can edit my Deathfire card.

2 minutes ago, Damo1701 said:

So, a card that says I CAN launch, ACTUALLY needs that section removing does it?

Where is the rules reference update for this please, so I can edit my Deathfire card.

it's in the pinned post at the top of this forum.

he may be able to launch devices in the future, so be sure to keep a copy of his current card.

2 hours ago, Damo1701 said:

2) Rules Reference tells us exactly how to handle a launch.

Which template does it tell us to use?

37 minutes ago, Damo1701 said:

So, a card that says I CAN launch, ACTUALLY needs that section removing does it?

Where is the rules reference update for this please, so I can edit my Deathfire card.

Wat?

It'll be in the next rules reference, it's answered by FFG in this every forum as people are saying. Deathfire cannot launch a device that can not normally be launched. I'm really baffled as to why you're even considering he can as FFG have officially said he cannot. I mean yeah blah blah blah forum posts are not included in the official rules etc but you're really reaching here.

I'll say again: the best analogy for Deathfire's "drop or launch" is his "perform an attack" effect. Each device, as well as each attack, has a specified way in which it happens. Devices specify how they are dropped or launched on their cards. Attacks specify ranges and arcs.

Deathfire does not grant the ability to attack something out of range, or something out of arc. Deathfire does not grant the ability to place devices by means other than the ways specified on the card.

This has been confirmed by FFG.

When FFG makes a device similar to this fan-made upgrade , then Deathfire will be able to launch that device. If Deathfire only said that you could drop a device then he would be unable to launch this Jam Jar, but since his text says he can drop or launch a device then he could either drop one of the current devices or launch a Jam Jar upon dying.

Again, this is not a real upgrade . Merely an example of a potential device that follows all of the existing rules of X-Wing Second edition.

Sorry I kicked this ant hill.