We all noticed that Chewie gets an action before he gets to avenge his freshly fallen comrade, but did you notice that Chewie now works on himself?

Due to the way ships are destroyed in 2e, he isn’t removed until the end of that initiative step. This means when that last hull goes, he has a number of options. Catch a target lock, boost into range, and make your last roar count.

Great catch!

Still worthless if we can only fit 2 A-wings next to him. Squad cost (both Chewie's and the A-wings) will determine how usable this ability really is.

I’ll still fly him even if he has just Poe as his wingman. As @nikk whyte mentioned, he will get a ‘Chew’s Wrath’ if he’s destroyed, or will avenge Poe with a double tap attack.

Resistance Chewie will force opponents to make choices, he’s thematic, and he’s a bad***** Wookiee, so he’s going to see rotation in my squads.

15 hours ago, BlodVargarna said:

Chew’s Wrath’ if he’s destroyed

Only if it happens during the init 4 portion of the Engagement Phase. Chewy will just be removed otherwise when Chewy is destroyed.

Edit: @Punning Pundit and @AllWingsStandyingBy . I was wrong, BlodVargarna is correct. Rules Reference Page 9 under Destroying Ships: If an effect triggers after a ship is destroyed, the effect resolves immediately before the ship is removed.

For quick reference if you don't want to dig out the PDF http://infinitearenas.com/xw2rules/index.php?page=destroying-ships

37 minutes ago, BVRCH said:

Still worthless if we can only fit 2 A-wings next to him. Squad cost (both Chewie's and the A-wings) will determine how usable this ability really is.

I had a 1.0 build with Chewie, Expertise, Harpoon Missiles, Scavenger Crane and 4 Z-95s. Every time a Z died, Chewie would load his carcass into the missile tube and shoot it right back at the enemy!

Just now, skotothalamos said:

I had a 1.0 build with Chewie, Harpoon Missiles, Scavenger Crane and 4 Z-95s. Every time a Z died, Chewie would load his carcass into the missile tube and shoot it right back at the enemy!

Yeah but we don't have access to headhunters anymore. He's not really worth building around if the RZ-2's are 35pts each. The resistance don't have dirt cheap cannon fodder to abuse. The Falcon is most likely going to take up half the list unless they re-cost large bases in general (which they might). You also need to take into account its arc. You can't just take a 360 pot shot anymore.

I don't like using strategies that rely on my ships being blown up at the best of times and that's my personal problem, but I just can't see his value with having his ability triggering a max of 4 times, and more realistically 2 times.

2 minutes ago, BVRCH said:

Yeah but we don't have access to headhunters anymore. He's not really worth building around if the RZ-2's are 35pts each. The resistance don't have dirt cheap cannon fodder to abuse. The Falcon is most likely going to take up half the list unless they re-cost large bases in general (which they might). You also need to take into account its arc. You can't just take a 360 pot shot anymore.

I don't like using strategies that rely on my ships being blown up at the best of times and that's my personal problem, but I just can't see his value with having his ability triggering a max of 4 times, and more realistically 2 times.

The Resistance Falcon should be somewhat cheaper than the Rebel version (fewer shields, Rotate action is red). If RZ-2's are 35 each, flying three alongside Chewie should leave you some modest room (20ish points?) for upgrades, maybe even more if you account for the expected upcoming points reduction to large base ships. It's not exactly a swarm, but it's more bonus attacks than 2.0 Quickdraw is likely to ever get from her ability.

9 minutes ago, BVRCH said:

Yeah but we don't have access to headhunters anymore. He's not really worth building around if the RZ-2's are 35pts each. The resistance don't have dirt cheap cannon fodder to abuse. The Falcon is most likely going to take up half the list unless they re-cost large bases in general (which they might). You also need to take into account its arc. You can't just take a 360 pot shot anymore.

I don't like using strategies that rely on my ships being blown up at the best of times and that's my personal problem, but I just can't see his value with having his ability triggering a max of 4 times, and more realistically 2 times.

Might change if they add some stuff in from the new kiddie series.

43 minutes ago, nexttwelveexits said:

The Resistance Falcon should be somewhat cheaper than the Rebel version (fewer shields, Rotate action is red). If RZ-2's are 35 each, flying three alongside Chewie should leave you some modest room (20ish points?) for upgrades, maybe even more if you account for the expected upcoming points reduction to large base ships. It's not exactly a swarm, but it's more bonus attacks than 2.0 Quickdraw is likely to ever get from her ability.

Yeah I expect pretty much exactly that math as well, but I still wouldn't be comfortable trying to play that trigger with such a small squad. The scavenged Falcon will drop even quicker and 20ish pts either allows for some missiles and nothing else, or some upgrades on Chewie with nothing on the A-wings. None of that seems worth it to me. The missile option seems the most viable but I think I'd rather the generic Falcon and more upgrades/or ace RZ-2 pilots.

I guess I thought his ability was fundamentally poor in 1e, and whilst buffed in 2e, it's still a bad ability in my opinion.

41 minutes ago, Hiemfire said:

Might change if they add some stuff in from the new kiddie series.

That is a possibility.

54 minutes ago, Hiemfire said:

Only if it happens during the init 4 portion of the Engagement Phase. Chewy will just be removed otherwise when Chewy is destroyed.

He’s removed at the end of whatever initiative phase it is when he dies. Said initiative phase doesn’t end until all ability triggers finish, so he’ll get the shot from his ability when he himself dies, yes.

I will add that I think his value will rise if he's cheap enough to allow a good stand alone squad next to him. Then his ability is a nice bonus to an already good squad. I just don't see value in building around his ability.

12 minutes ago, SpiderMana said:

He’s removed at the end of whatever initiative phase it is when he dies. Said initiative phase doesn’t end until all ability triggers finish, so he’ll get the shot from his ability when he himself dies, yes.

1. You're right.

2. It's moot: If an effect triggers after a ship is destroyed, the effect resolves immediately before the ship is removed.

http://infinitearenas.com/xw2rules/index.php?page=destroying-ships

He gets his bonus action and attack period, unless he's already done a bonus attack then just the action...

This means a Stressed, Ionized or Locked Resistance Chewy at 1 hp left and having not performed a bonus attack already could Electronic Baffle the stress in the End Phase, take the damage destroying himself, perform his bonus action and bonus attack, and then be removed. There is no requirement for the destruction to have been from enemy fire...

Resistance Theme: I ain't going out that easy...

1 hour ago, BVRCH said:

Still worthless if we can only fit 2 A-wings next to him.

I mean, in 1e Quickdraw pretty much had a hard limit of 3 bonus attacks per game, frequently only getting two, and was still one of the most popular pilots.

2e Resistance Chewie's ability gives him the action economy to make those bonus attacks count. If you can get two triggers out of that during a game, that might be enough spike damage to turn a game with what remains.

There's a lot of difference between a mid-PS large-base turret ship and a high PS but slightly clunky fighter like an SF (lots of red on the dial, only one white hard turn, not too much green, only a barrel roll), but an ability granting extra attacks doesn't have to trigger often to be potent.

1 hour ago, BVRCH said:

Squad cost (both Chewie's and the A-wings) will determine how usable this ability really is.

Yup.

Might even be able to fit Chewie and 3 A-Wings, or maybe even 2 X-Wings.

Resistance Falcon is objectively a bit worse than Rebel Falcon, so maybe as low as 74 points (10 points lower than Rebel Chewie at 84; 4 per shield, 2 for the red rotate). Pilot ability is potentially stronger, though.

Have we seen the shield/hull breakdown on A-Wings? If they do have 5 total HP, I wouldn't be surprised to see them close to 40, which might fit 3 with Chewie. Per threat cards, they've got a few aces with some upgrades in the 2-threat range, which probably works out to around 50 points, so having a generic around 40 doesn't seem odd.

Meanwhile, there are 4 T-70 dials in the conversion kit, so perhaps they'll be under or exactly fifty points for the cheapest generics. Folks from FFG have made statements on prices, that they'll be really expensive, but we've seen the ship cards... generics don't look so far ahead of T-65s to be baseline much more than 9-10 points ahead. Even if at something like 55 points, getting two X-Wings along side a Falcon would probably work.

But until we get the points list, we won't know.

8 minutes ago, theBitterFig said:

Have we seen the shield/hull breakdown on A-Wings?

Not that I can find.

2 hours ago, BVRCH said:

Yeah but we don't have access to headhunters anymore.

Derp. I seriously just keep spacing this whole “seven factions” thing.

1 hour ago, theBitterFig said:

I mean, in 1e Quickdraw pretty much had a hard limit of 3 bonus attacks per game, frequently only getting two, and was still one of the most popular pilots.

2e Resistance Chewie's ability gives him the action economy to m  ake those bonus attacks count. If you can get two triggers out of that during a game, that might be enough spike damage to turn a game with what remains.

There's a lot of difference between a mid-PS large-base turret ship and a high PS but slightly clunky fighter like an SF (lots of red on the dial, only one white hard turn, not too much green, only a barrel roll), but an ability granting extra attacks doesn't have to trigger often to be potent.

The opportunity to make bonus attacks doesn't make them potent either though, case in point Corran. A lot of people are making this comparison to Quickdraw but I don't think its a fair one. The double tap on it's own isn't Quickdraw's strength, but the combo of Quickdraw's initiative and the fact his ability can be a big deterrent to fire back, especially in 1e where he had LWF dice. You needed to make sure you took as many shields as possible in one hit to shut him down. The i6 also means he actually can arc dodge even if the ship isn't the most manoeuvrable.

Chewie has to loose one of his ships to trigger which puts you at deficit to start with, but he also becomes the primary target as if you take him down first he only triggers once. Now I realise the value of a target man, but with how easily the rebel falcon melts in 2e, this resistance version isn't going to be around for long when focused on. The SF has been toned down, but so has the Falcon. Its a larger target to start with, but its rotate and boost are red, has less health as well as already having less green dice in comparison to the SF, and it no longer has a 1 turn. This falcon needs the title to function well, which is an additional cost, and it's also going to need crew like Han to survive as long as possible. Even if he is 75pts naked, he's not likely to be run naked. Is the potential bonus attack worth that many points? With a couple upgrades Chewie is probably going to be worth 2 X-wings. I personally would rather the extra gun.

1 hour ago, theBitterFig said:

Yup.

Might even be able to fit Chewie and 3 A-Wings, or maybe even 2 X-Wings.

Resistance Falcon is objectively a bit worse than Rebel Falcon, so maybe as low as 74 points (10 points lower than Rebel Chewie at 84; 4 per shield, 2 for the red rotate). Pilot ability is potentially stronger, though.

Have we seen the shield/hull breakdown on A-Wings? If they do have 5 total HP, I wouldn't be surprised to see them close to 40, which might fit 3 with Chewie. Per threat cards, they've got a few aces with some upgrades in the 2-threat range, which probably works out to around 50 points, so having a generic around 40 doesn't seem odd.

Meanwhile, there are 4 T-70 dials in the conversion kit, so perhaps they'll be under or exactly fifty points for the cheapest generics. Folks from FFG have made statements on prices, that they'll be really expensive, but we've seen the ship cards... generics don't look so far ahead of T-65s to be baseline much more than 9-10 points ahead. Even if at something like 55 points, getting two X-Wings along side a Falcon would probably work.

But until we get the points list, we won't know.

You're cost estimation I agree with, but if it is accurate it doesn't give me any confidence in his strength. As I said before I personally would not be building a strategy that hinges on losing ships in a 3 to 4 ship list. As I also said before, if the cost of the other ships allows for strong wingmates that have their own function, then sure Chewie as a little bonus to the squad would be great. If he is the crux of the list with that fewer ships, of which are just generics, then I can't see his value.

That was all my original comment was stating, his value is solely dependent on cost. In my opinion, the added offensive and defensive capability of Rey is worth the extra cost without even knowing it, so is Han's i6. If the generic is cheap enough, the resistance crew could more than make up for Chewie's unique ability, all the while not relying on wingmates to activate.

Furthermore, both T-70 and RZ-2 look quite good. If I can take 2 of those over Chewie, there's not much incentive for me. I haven't even taken into account the comparative value of the bomber either.

5 hours ago, Hiemfire said:

Only if it happens during the init 4 portion of the Engagement Phase. Chewy will just be removed otherwise when Chewy is destroyed.

Nice catch, but if he gets an attack then and there it might be worth it.

40 minutes ago, ForceM said:

Nice catch, but if he gets an attack then and there it might be worth it.

Um... I was wrong... Check out page 9 of the Rules Reference. Destroying Ships. He gets his destroyed proc regardless of when he was destroyed and what caused him to be destroyed.

Sometimes there is value in things even if they never proc. Chewy may still have some decent use as a fat, dangerous distraction, if you can get him to be survivable enough to cope with the attention.

1 hour ago, Cuz05 said:

Sometimes there is value in things even if they never proc. Chewy may still have some decent use as a fat, dangerous distraction, if you can get him to be survivable enough to cope with the attention.

is he? Dengar can throw you back a proton torpedo and is in 6.

I think is usefulness will depend in thr cost, and so far I haven't been impressed by rebels efficiency. Let's hope it doesn't affect the resistance too. (aka future-rebel)

8 hours ago, BVRCH said:

The opportunity to make bonus attacks doesn't make them potent either though, case in point Corran. A lot of people are making this comparison to Quickdraw but I don't think its a fair one. The double tap on it's own isn't Quickdraw's strength, but the combo of Quickdraw's initiative and the fact his ability can be a big deterrent to fire back, especially in 1e where he had LWF dice. You needed to make sure you took as many shields as possible in one hit to shut him down. The i6 also means he actually can arc dodge even if the ship isn't the most manoeuvrable.

Chewie has to loose one of his ships to trigger which puts you at deficit to start with, but he also becomes the primary target as if you take him down first he only triggers once. Now I realise the value of a target man, but with how easily the rebel falcon melts in 2e, this resistance version isn't going to be around for long when focused on. The SF has been toned down, but so has the Falcon. Its a larger target to start with, but its rotate and boost are red, has less health as well as already having less green dice in comparison to the SF, and it no longer has a 1 turn. This falcon needs the title to function well, which is an additional cost, and it's also going to need crew like Han to survive as long as possible. Even if he is 75pts naked, he's not likely to be run naked. Is the potential bonus attack worth that many points? With a couple upgrades Chewie is probably going to be worth 2 X-wings. I personally would rather the extra gun.

You're cost estimation I agree with, but if it is accurate it doesn't give me any confidence in his strength. As I said before I personally would not be building a strategy that hinges on losing ships in a 3 to 4 ship list. As I also said before, if the cost of the other ships allows for strong wingmates that have their own function, then sure Chewie as a little bonus to the squad would be great. If he is the crux of the list with that fewer ships, of which are just generics, then I can't see his value.

That was all my original comment was stating, his value is solely dependent on cost. In my opinion, the added offensive and defensive capability of Rey is worth the extra cost without even knowing it, so is Han's i6. If the generic is cheap enough, the resistance crew could more than make up for Chewie's unique ability, all the while not relying on wingmates to activate.

Furthermore, both T-70 and RZ-2 look quite good. If I can take 2 of those over Chewie, there's not much incentive for me. I haven't even taken into account the comparative value of the bomber either.

That all makes enough sense. Mostly, when comparing QD, it's more about the scale of bonus attacks which are needed, if the shell is effective enough. Corran is so pricey, and his bonus attacks aren't necessarily even bonus attacks, since he can't attack the next round. Chewie is... probably a bit closer to Corran, but might be OK enough.

Mostly, I think there's a decent shot that Chewie "isn't that bad" and fun lists with him can kinda work, not really that Chewie is large-tournament-top-tables.

As to Chewie needing a bunch of upgrades, maybe, but Scum Han Solo doesn't really need too many. Title and Trick Shot are the only two which are mandatory, but scum does have potent cheap crew and gunners. I can half imagine a Chewie which goes pretty lean. Not a lot of meat on those porgs.

//

1 hour ago, DerRitter said:

is he? Dengar can throw you back a proton torpedo and is in 6.

I think is usefulness will depend in thr cost, and so far I haven't been impressed by rebels efficiency. Let's hope it doesn't affect the resistance too. (aka future-rebel)

One big difference is that Chewie punishes folks who ignore Chewie, but Dengar punishes folks who attack Dengar. Chewie is kinda-but-not-really a big furry Biggs. Perhaps Chewie opens space for some A-Wings to thrive. If shooting down an A-Wing means Chewie gets a Focus/Lock range 1 attack on you, maybe you just shoot Chewie instead.

//

Throughout it all: we'll need to see points.

Here’s a thought: Resistance and FO won’t be out long enough before January to get a really good idea of points costs for their individual things. Now this could mean they price them conservatively, since they won’t have a chance to nerf/buff their points for 6 months or so.

But.

If FFG is already planning to give a lot of large ships points decreases, it could also mean the Falcon and Starfortress won’t be pointed as conservatively.

2 hours ago, SpiderMana said:

If FFG is already planning to give a lot of large ships points decreases, it could also mean the Falcon and Starfortress won’t be pointed as conservatively.

Well, point-for-point they already made the Scum Falcon radically cheaper than it's Rebel counterpart (or the Decimator). Might as well do the same with the Resistance Falcon. Gotta move 'dem new ships!