4 hours ago, Franwax said:

Definitely ! The “advanced” rules section may have been a bit crammed, but it was perfectly possible to play monk/minor clan/a variety of ronin/imperials right from the core book. Oh and advanced schools too.

Now even the GC material is light - no Scorpion bushi !? Seriously...

I like a lot of things they did in this edition, but this is a sore point: having to wait for (and buy) a handful of supplements to have what should be right out of the box.

I'm very happy with the new edition but I agree with you. It is lacking some 20 more pages or so. Would have paid more for a couple more schools, techniques and invocations.

3 hours ago, Shosur0 said:

I'm very happy with the new edition but I agree with you. It is lacking some 20 more pages or so. Would have paid more for a couple more schools, techniques and invocations.

This may apply for system old heads, but for newbies like me, there is just the right amount to start the game off with now--almost too much for me to process, but not quite at that point.

But this Emerald Empire book has me super stoked for all the cool stuff it'll have in it.

What I hope FFG ends up doing is the WotC method of adventure/sourcebook/rules usually folded up together, sometimes in different ways. That seems to be a silver bullet for them so far.

On 11/8/2018 at 12:11 PM, nameless ronin said:

That seems like a fairly unbelievable statement without qualifying anything, but you're entitled to that opinion. That said, I think 100k copies of anything in the L5R line is probably a tall order already. The 5th edition D&D PHB sold about 800k copies over 4 years.

Let us start by excepting that D&D is the 800 pound gorilla in the room and what D&D does is not relavent to a VERY niche RPG. Sorry. It would be awesome if L5R did 200k books a year. They dont and are unlikely to do so.

I fully expect a book like "Clans of Rokugan" that may or may not have the great clans stuff in it, but will certainly have a "make your own minor clan" and then use the minor clans we know and love as a list of examples.

I expect a book for each clan then possibly elemental books. And possibly bushi, courtier, and shugenja books

2 hours ago, Daeglan said:

I expect a book for each clan then possibly elemental books. And possibly bushi, courtier, and shugenja books

Honestly, I don't think that's going to be feasible to provide enough materials for that.

More stuff for great clans, more for minor clans, some ronin stuff...

I am hoping for some non-Rokugan stuff, I love me some Burning Sands (yes, I know, it's not gonna be Burning Sands, but still)

I only have the ebook for 4th edition Burning Sands conversion, but that's not the topic. I for one want more info on the minor clans, 4th edition core book had it, so it kind of confused me so I fiugured it will be present in any expansions for it in some manner.

I feel that FFG is doing it similar to how they're doing the Star Wars lines, Edge of the Empire for example, people apparently want a clone wars era time period book, so they're making one as I write this I yhtink its at the printer ? {again different topic I wont detail further here} Its possible FFG might go the same route with L5R given its design

4th edition had a book for each Great Clan and from what I recall had a entirely new campaign as well for Second City. FFG might go similar path, Say a greast clan book called Secrets of the Crab or Way of the Crab or something, or maybe even Path of the Bushi or Path of the Daimyo or even Path of the Emporer {think about it wouldnt it be neat to actually BE the guy in charge of a vast empire ?}

Just my two cents ~shuts up and goes to bed~

4th ed had 1 book called Great Clans covering all great clans (including Mantis and Spider at that time). Earlier editions had 1 book for each clan and some other factions (Secrets of X and Way of X if I recall)

I just don't necessarily see 5th ed sustaining that many books. What I do think we need to cover (with the assumption that EE will cover Imperials and Monks and other stuff)

- More Great Clan stuff: Bayushi bushi and Phoenix Ishiken are missing, alongside Daidoji scout/harrier, Kuni Witchhunter and possibly some other stuff that could spin off into a whole school

- All minor clan stuff, including the new stuff

- Possibly more nonhuman/spirit stuff, if the Kitsune is not only a one-off

I just don't necessarily see 6 (great clan) +3 (bushi, shug, court) + 5 (element) = 14 books coming out of this edition in today's market.

That said, I hope to see the afore mentioned missing stuff show up at least, if not more. I also like the DLC stuff like the Mantis, but I am partial to PDF-s, so that is a personal decision.

2 hours ago, Horvagab said:

More Great Clan stuff: Bayushi bushi and Phoenix Ishiken a  re missing, alongside Daidoji scout/harrier, Kuni Witchhunter and possibly some other stuff that could spin off into a whole school

+1 (or 4) to these. And the poor Asako! (Loremaster or Henshin... looks like not all Great Clans families got a school in the Corebook after all ).

But the Asako Loremasters are in the book?

All families got a school.

oh you're absolutely right.. my bad!

So Henshin only then.

10 hours ago, Daeglan said:

Let us start by excepting that D&D is the 800 pound gorilla in the room and what D&D does is not relavent to a VERY niche RPG. Sorry. It would be awesome if L5R did 200k books a year. They dont and are unlikely to do so.

I referenced D&D first because I actually have an approximate sales figure for that and second because L5R being a very niche RPG is the point. Even more so since FFG seems to prefer to keep print runs small (although I can only really judge that in regards to the SW RPG, which is a lot less of a niche). The bigger the print run, the cheaper each individual book is. In printing, the setup cost is significant unless you go for high volume. That's quite pertinent when it comes to deciding on creating five or ten small print run products or just one, hopefully with a larger print run.

really hope there won't be single clan books. there was a choice to vote against it during the beta, so it was at least on the table. The Great Clans and Secrets of the Empire from 4e did a perfectly fine job at presenting that information in single sourcebooks, and I hope that we'll get books like them in 5th rather than the old way of/secrets of books, or even the masters of series where it grouped several clans together.
If i had to guess; we'll get a City of Lies adventure book soonish. If not the next product, the one after. Seems to be what they did with Star Wars and 40k.

1 hour ago, llamaman88 said:

really hope there won't be single clan books. there was a choice to vote against it during the beta, so it was at least on the table. The Great Clans and Secrets of the Empire from 4e did a perfectly fine job at presenting that information in single sourcebooks, and I hope that we'll get books like them in 5th rather than the old way of/secrets of books, or even the masters of series where it grouped several clans together.
If i had to guess; we'll get a City of Lies adventure book soonish. If not the next product, the one after. Seems to be what they did with Star Wars and 40k.

If they manage to bring out a City of Lies book while I'm still running the 1e campaign, that would be great.

2 hours ago, nameless ronin said:

I referenced D&D first because I actually have an approximate sales figure for that and second because L5R being a very niche RPG is the point. Even more so since FFG seems to prefer to keep print runs small (although I can only really judge that in regards to the SW RPG, which is a lot less of a niche). The bigger the print run, the cheaper each individual book is. In printing, the setup cost is significant unless you go for high volume. That's quite pertinent when it comes to deciding on creating five or ten small print run products or just one, hopefully with a larger print run.

It ceased being "very niche" when 3.5 OA used Rokugan as the default setting. It's not first tier, true, but only D&D and Pathfinder seem to occupy the first tier.

The move to a more storygame approach is actually likely to broaden the appeal, despite alienating not a few grogs.
The more inclusive revision to the setting is going to broaden the appeal.
The backing of FFG is likely to broaden the exposure.
The reset of the storyline has returned a few grogs who disliked the setting changes of editions 2-4.
The simpler mechanics have returned a few who felt old-l5r was mechanical in the wrong places.

In regards to City of Lies, it is adaptable as far as I am aware. though I would love to use the Four Winds Saga wit hte new system. I myself loved Second City and City of Lies campaigns. the new books will have tosomehow add those elements or maybe release their own versions

6 hours ago, AK_Aramis said:

It ceased being "very niche" when 3.5 OA used Rokugan as the default setting. It's not first tier, true, but only D&D and Pathfinder seem to occupy the first tier.

The move to a more storygame approach is actually likely to broaden the appeal, despite alienating not a few grogs.
The more inclusive revision to the setting is going to broaden the appeal.
The backing of FFG is likely to broaden the exposure.
The reset of the storyline has returned a few grogs who disliked the setting changes of editions 2-4.
The simpler mechanics have returned a few who felt old-l5r was mechanical in the wrong places.

Regardless of what we consider "niche" (yet bear in mind that if the SW RPG is not 1st tier, the L5R RPG is probably not even 2nd tier either), can we agree L5R printruns are fairly small? I think that if the core book sells 100k copies over 5 years, FFG will consider that a rousing success. The supplements? I wonder what the minimum number they need to sell will be for those to be meaningfully profitable.

EDIT: Wrong topic, duh.

17 hours ago, nameless ronin said:

Regardless of what we consider "niche" (yet bear in mind that if the SW RPG is not 1st tier, the L5R RPG is probably not even 2nd tier either), can we agree L5R printruns are fairly small? I think that if the core book sells 100k copies over 5 years, FFG will consider that a rousing success. The supplements? I wonder what the minimum number they need to sell will be for those to be meaningfully profitable.

I doubt it. 300pp for $50 indicates a pretty high initial run. Assuming cheap printing in china, probably 4-10 thousand units. That's on par with the initial print runs for Star Wars. It assumes that their pricing is sane - typically 8-10 x the printing cost, and that the license fees for FFG Star Wars are on order of $2 per copy. (Books that size and color in runs of 4K can be as low as $6 per copy; 8K+ drops it to about $5 per copy.)

4K, if it sells out in a quarter, is enough to put it on the top 10 at ICV2.

3 hours ago, AK_Aramis said:

I doubt it. 300pp for $50 indicates a pretty high initial run. Assuming cheap printing in china, probably 4-10 thousand units. That's on par with the initial print runs for Star Wars. It assumes that their pricing is sane - typically 8-10 x the printing cost, and that the license fees for FFG Star Wars are on order of $2 per copy. (Books that size and color in runs of 4K can be as low as $6 per copy; 8K+ drops it to about $5 per copy.)

4K, if it sells out in a quarter, is enough to put it on the top 10 at ICV2.

Indie RPGs like Trudvang, Zweihänder, Coriolis or Tales from the Loop get funded on Kickstarter if they reach 1000-1500 hardcovers backed for. And that's without printing in China. Granted, they don't all have the same production value, but still. 4K, even 10K, is not that high a print run compared to what actual small-timers go for. More to the point though, that's for core books - the best sellers of an RPG. I'm curious about the supplements. Those are the topic here.

On 11/10/2018 at 1:05 PM, AK_Aramis said:

It ceased being "very niche" when 3.5 OA used Rokugan as the default setting. It's not first tier, true, but only D&D and Pathfinder seem to occupy the first tier.

The move to a more storygame approach is actually likely to broaden the appeal, despite alienating not a few grogs.
The more inclusive revision to the setting is going to broaden the appeal.
The backing of FFG is likely to broaden the exposure.
The reset of the storyline has returned a few grogs who disliked the setting changes of editions 2-4.
The simpler mechanics have returned a few who felt old-l5r was mechanical in the wrong places.

Oriental adventures has ALWAYS been very niche

Mention of OA made me remember the only OA book I dont have is exotic arms guide, but back on topic

Emerald Empire, what clan info can we expect ? What shall we speculate on >? Me I want a Scorpion Bushi and also a proper setup for rules regarding Shinobi creation or even --dare I type it-- Cross greatlcan families

41 minutes ago, Ni Fang said:

Mention of OA made me remember the only OA book I dont have is exotic arms guide, but back on topic

Emerald Empire, what clan info can we expect ? What shall we speculate on >? Me I want a Scorpion Bushi and also a proper setup for rules regarding Shinobi creation or even --dare I type it-- Cross greatlcan families

I'm sorry to say but you are unlikely to get what you want in Emerald Empire. 8 of the 9 schools in the book have been named and the as yet unnamed school is likely another Imperial school.

I'm hoping for a timeline, mainly to see if there are any changes pre-1123 from the reboot.

11 hours ago, Ni Fang said:

or even --dare I type it-- Cross greatlcan families

Okay Yasuki Hachi, calm down.