10 points overcosted?

terrible linked actions?

3-3-3-3 stat line is beautiful tho.

So you say they’re overcosted, yet then give a reason that they may need the point cost it’s given. There fine.

I’m not sure it’s overcosted so much as current gameplay theory aka the “meta” likes more than 2 ships in a list. Note that the tie defender, the other premium ship, didn’t make it high in ranking at Mynock Open.

Their time will come at some point I am sure. Just needs the right combination to be unlocked and someone will find a way to fly them well.

comparing to a defender is wrong because the Defender gets the free evade and the white k-turns, not to mention the extra hull. The defender is an much better chassis.

They are overcosted, even for a 3/3/3/3 chassis. The linked actions are bad, the ship ability is okay, but not great.

Look at it this way, base Corran Horn is 75 points. You can take supernat Luke for the same price.

So your point exactly? Just because a ship is expensive doesn’t mean it’s not warranted.

I've flown the generics with just R4. They are green dice dependant, their linked action saves a turn when zooming past the enemy to rearm.

Based on my personal testing of them, I do believe the chassis is over costed. Now, I'm not sure if it's ten points over costed, but some sort of price reduction does feel warranted, at least for the generics.

For those who feel they are fine, what are you putting on them? What their squad mates?

With all the Bullseye abilities flying around, I'd put anything with a large base ahead of the E-Wing.

And probably quite a few medium sized bases as well.

Some guys at my LGS have been trying pair of the I4s with Proton Torps, FCS, and R3 astromechs along side a third ship, which has been a variety of things.

I4 isn't bad, 2x Proton Torps with TL and Focus hits like a Mac truck. You aren't terribly likely to take one of them off the board before they get a torpedo off.

I'm glad you can't fit three of them with Torpedos in a list together.

1 hour ago, Wiredin said:

10 points overcosted?

terrible linked actions?

3-3-3-3 stat line is beautiful tho.

"Worst Ship In Game" award goes to The Jumpmaster and it's not even close.

The Knave is 11pts overcosted. No in-depth analysis for this conclusion, just that I have 4 of them. ?

37 minutes ago, SabineKey said:

Based on my personal testing of them, I do believe the chassis is over costed. Now, I'm not sure if it's ten points over costed, but some sort of price reduction does feel warranted, at least for the generics.

For those who feel they are fine, what are you putting on them? What their squad mates?

Definitely not 10 points overcosted I agree, 3-5 I'd say.

45 minutes ago, Cgriffith said:

So your point exactly? Just because a ship is expensive doesn’t mean it’s not warranted.

so what is your point? The E-Wing is over priced for what it does, it's hard to fit into lists when there are other ships that can fill similar roles for a lot cheaper. Example, Sabine will often have focus/evade every turn, 3 dice attack, and is fairly nimble... and almost half the cost. E-wings will rarely have double green tokens, which it wants, and needs more upgrades to be effective. The chassis is not self sufficient.

My point is that it needs some help.

it needs a cost reduction or a change to it's linked actions, or both! I love the E-wing, I want it to be powerful and effective, but it's hard to fit it into a list where almost any other ship is a better option.

E's cost a lot of points for the action and dice economy they bring to the table. It definitely doesn't feel a full 1.5x as good as an X-Wing, even though 1-hards, 3/4/5-blue straights, better action bar, and LRS are all upsides.

Is 3 Knave Squadron Escorts, with nothing but Ion Torpedoes, too strong? Because that already doesn't fit in 200 points.

What about 3x Knaves, with R4s, Protons, and FCS? That's pretty strong - l3 doesn't matter for locks with LRS, and it's a nasty alpha strike; plus baked in rerolls and a great dial. That's a lot of dice coming at you from range 2/3 that you don't get much say in.

It's also fully 225 points.

So, is it really that much stronger than the X/X/Y torpedo builds? Are you more scared of those I3 generics than I5 Luke Supernaturaling around or Thane flipping crits, I6 Wedge stripping your dice, I5 Norra opting out of damage?

And even if you are, Knaves could drop by 8 points each and that build still doesn't fit. Drop 'em by 6 each, and either R4 or FCS has to go.

1 hour ago, Wiredin said:

10 points overcosted?

terrible linked actions?

3-3-3-3 stat line is beautiful tho.

10 Points overcosted at least; possibly more regarding Corran Horn, who's ability has been relegated to the point of near uselessness. We need a reason to pick it over the likes of Wedge, Luke, and Thane and paying 9 points more than wedge for the lowest generic is not going to cut it; especially when X-Wings are a better torpedo boat than it for a much cheaper cost. I know it has some advantages over an X-Wing for the sake of being half A-Wing, but it's just a massively inefficient way to spend points when it cannot token stack to protect its own investment like a Defender or Super T H I C C Whisper. And I know a bunch of people are all going to clammer about "finding the right build" and "flying it right", but that's BS. If it was good, people would be playing it.

2 minutes ago, Wiredin said:

so what is your point? The E-Wing is over priced for what it does, it's hard to fit into lists when there are other ships that can fill similar roles for a lot cheaper. Example, Sabine will often have focus/evade every turn, 3 dice attack, and is fairly nimble... and almost half the cost. E-wings will rarely have double green tokens, which it wants, and needs more upgrades to be effective. The chassis is not self sufficient.

My point is that it needs some help.

it needs a cost reduction or a change to it's linked actions, or both! I love the E-wing, I want it to be powerful and effective, but it's hard to fit it into a list where almost any other ship is a better option.

It can be effective be creative. My goodness build around the ship, there are other ship just as pricey. Just because you like the ship doesn’t mean it needs to be decreased in cost. I like Vader doesn’t mean he’s getting a points decrease. Find a way to build around it, List build.

The crying needs to stop.

@Cgriffith

I see you laughed at my post. What did you find amusing?

If it was my premise that the E-Wing was over costed, perhaps you could do me the courtesy of answering the questions I asked in that post. Do you have experience with the craft to back up your opinion that it is fine?

2 minutes ago, SabineKey said:

@Cgriffith

I see you laughed at my post. What did you find amusing?

If it was my premise that the E-Wing was over costed, perhaps you could do me the courtesy of answering the questions I asked in that post. Do you have experience with the craft to back up your opinion that it is fine?

One might also ask what kind of testing you did - and what factors pointed towards an overcost, and what size of reduction are we talking about.

6 minutes ago, Cgriffith said:

It can be effective be creative. My goodness build around the ship, there are other ship just as pricey. Just because you like the ship doesn’t mean it needs to be decreased in cost. I like Vader doesn’t mean he’s getting a points decrease. Find a way to build around it, List build.

The crying needs to stop.

Dude you’ve been wailing at the top of your lungs about quadjumpers in that thread, this is more than a little hypocritical.

I’ve flown a pair of them once and while they were sort of fun, they weren’t great. Barely even good. The other “pricey ships” are better. The Defender is a monster with the Juke/Free Evade combo alone. The Guri...I mean the Starviper, has that sweet, sweet Barrel Roll of Infinite Possibilities.

That said, a good combo could make it great. I suggested a Talent in the last E-Wing thread that would prevent them from changing their target lock, but would allow them take a focus action instead. Suddenly, their poor linked actions become great.

1 hour ago, SabineKey said:

Based on my personal testing of them, I do believe the chassis is over costed. Now, I'm not sure if it's ten points over costed, but some sort of price reduction does feel warranted, at least for the generics.

For those who feel they are fine, what are you putting on them? What their squad mates?

I agree here, I've been flying PhilGC's twin E-Wing list for several weeks now, and all Corran has to do is roll badly in one engagement phase, and you're chasing a 100pt deficit. I think a 10pt decrease is potentially too far, but a decrease between 3-8pts will be fair. Likewise if that 1 turn wasn't red, I think people might have less of an issue with the cost.

8 minutes ago, ThinkingB said:

10 Points overcosted at least; possibly more regarding Corran Horn, who's ability has been relegated to the point of near uselessness. We need a reason to pick it over the likes of Wedge, Luke, and Thane and paying 9 points more than wedge for the lowest generic is not going to cut it; especially when X-Wings are a better torpedo boat than it for a much cheaper cost. I know it has some advantages over an X-Wing for the sake of being half A-Wing, but it's just a massively inefficient way to spend points when it cannot token stack to protect its own investment like a Defender or Super T H I C C Whisper. And I know a bunch of people are all going to clammer about "finding the right build" and "flying it right", but that's BS. If it was good, people would be playing it.

It's certainly thematic: it's meant to be better than the X-Wing, but pilots hate it. That said, there is a knack for flying the E-Wing as it currently is. You fly it like an X-Wing, it'll die. Fly it like a Defender, it'll still probably die, but might not die quite so quickly (that's my opinion based on playing E-Wings exclusively for the last few weeks). That said, the model is overcosted, and no amount of "get good" is going to fix that.

7 minutes ago, Cgriffith said:

It can be effective be creative. My goodness build around the ship, there are other ship just as pricey. Just because you like the ship doesn’t mean it needs to be decreased in cost. I like Vader doesn’t mean he’s getting a points decrease. Find a way to build around it, List build.

The crying needs to stop.

Building around the ship only gets you so far though, and yes creativity with the E-Wing is key. However, You're spending around 1/3 of your points on even a naked Knave, for a model that has one evade and one hit point more than an X-Wing which is 2/3 of the cost. It does become problematic to build effectively and efficiently under such constraints. That said, saying that "the crying needs to stop" isn't exactly a positive way to debate a topic. People have issues, let them share them.

1 hour ago, ScummyRebel said:

I’m not sure it’s overcosted so much as current gameplay theory aka the “meta” likes more than 2 ships in a list. Note that the tie defender, the other premium ship, didn’t make it high in ranking at Mynock Open.

That's because the TIE/Defender is competing with some of the most under-costed ships in the game: Whisper & Redline. The TIE/D's biggest problem is that it's getting out-competed by very efficient in-faction ships that want it's spot in a list. Rebels, on the other hand, do not have any clear 'runaway' meta-defining pilots that are nudging the E-Wing out. The TIE/D is miles better than E-Wing point-for-point, because it has far better bulk with it's built in free Evade and has a means to flip its arc around every turn without sacrificing its actions, getting around the biggest challenge facing jousters.

If you gave the E-Wing the TIE/D's dial and Evade token and pricetag, I'm sure you'd see them in plenty of Rebel lists at the moment.

1 hour ago, Zarovichx said:

"Worst Ship In Game" award goes to The Jumpmaster and it's not even close.

I'll see your jumpmaster and raise you the Ghost! Seriously both are terrible and far far worse than an E-wing but I think the generic Lothal Rebel and the Ghost platform in general is a contender for worst 2.0 ship. 70 points for target practice. You can pay an extra 30-34 points to give it an incredibly weak rear arc that you could shoot a bonus 2-3 dice out of. But now you are sitting at 100+ points. Bring an Arc-170 and Veteran Tail Gunner and you can do the same for half the cost. Don't even get me started about how bad the turrets are on it. Currently the only remotely viable pilot is Hera and it's just because of her pilot skill, and you want to run her naked or pretty near so and don't rely on her to contribute much to your list. At least Dengar is still pretty deadly.

Anyways back to the point of those thread. The E-wing is pretty good, not the best but decent. Being able to lock from across the map means it's one of the few ships with double offensive mods in a fight, combine that with th deadly proton torps and they are able to punch out heavy hit and run strikes without any support. They also have TIE Defender stat-lines for 11 points cheaper. And that's just for the generics.

Corran is the only pilot in the game that can take R2 (or R2-D2) astromech and actually use it to gain shields without being otherwise affected.

Gavin is the closest thing the Rebels have to a swarm offensive boosting commander which ups everyone's damage to crits.

All in all they are a unique ship, way better than their first edition incarnation. And give them a try with Torpedos before you move back to X-wings.

For fun with Crits and shield regen try:

E-cstacy

(74) Corran Horn
(8) R2-D2
(3) Fire-Control System
(9) Proton Torpedoes
(1) Marksmanship
(7) Hull Upgrade
Points 102

(68) Gavin Darklighter
(2) "Chopper"
(3) Elusive
(8) Advanced Sensors
(9) Proton Torpedoes
(8) Afterburners
Points 98

Total points: 200

Or to see Gavin modify 2 dice attacks x6 try:

Rogue Squadron Raid

(68) Gavin Darklighter
Points 68

(32) Gray Squadron Bomber
(4) Dorsal Turret
(8) Veteran Turret Gunner
Points 44

(32) Gray Squadron Bomber
(4) Dorsal Turret
(8) Veteran Turret Gunner
Points 44

(32) Gray Squadron Bomber
(4) Dorsal Turret
(8) Veteran Turret Gunner
Points 44

Total points: 200

I've been pretty happy with Gavin as a squad leader, and I think Elusive, Advanced Sensors and either Chopper or R4 is my favourite build. He is expensive at 81 points, but usually pulls his weight. He's somewhat matchup dependent as he doesn't like getting hit with too many 3-4 dice attacks, and prefers targets with as few shields as possible. Initiative has surprisingly been less important, as a boost/roll > sloop makes him extremely slippery and/or a very good blocker. Just don't get caught at R1 by multiple ships.

When not even Nathan Eide is flying E-Wings, you know things are bad.

I'll say, I think Knaves have potential in Quickbuild format. A naked Knave Squadron Escort is 2 threat, which means 4 per list. That'd be up against Blue X-Wings or Gold Y-Wings with Torpedoes.

1 hour ago, Wiredin said:

comparing to a defender is wrong because the Defender gets the free evade and the white k-turns, not to mention the extra hull. The defender is an much better chassis.

They are overcosted, even for a 3/3/3/3 chassis. The linked actions are bad, the ship ability  is okay, but not great.

Look at it this way, base Corran Horn is 75 points. You can take supernat Luke for the same price.

I don't get your point....

Corran is 74, if you put a r4 on him (2points) you can have a very better dial with more blue manouvers compared to a defender (except for the white k turn)

So you can easely make 2 linked actions evrey turn and take off the stress. (None of the defenders can do it)

(Repsitioning in lock is actually very powerful on a i 5 ship like corran with a torpedo slot but also without it)

And it still cost 8 points less than rexler....

It in not so bad....