Trajectory Sim
Yes, it should exist. Yes it needs a minor point increase.
Yes, but Tragedy Stimulator should be limited to ships that do not have missile or toro slots.
Yes, and the cost is fine. Just don't let Nym reload.
15 minutes ago, Okapi said:Yes, and the cost is fine. Just don't let Nym reload.
Bomblet + R2 astro on Havoc... Scurrg doesn't have the reload action so that is the only way Nym can, and apparently Bomblet generator "sucks".
The only price point this card deserves is 200 points.
Keep the cost the same. You get a weapons disabled token when you launch.
I think it should be the ship ability for the resistance bomber.
I always felt it wasn't good for the game. It felt unfair somehow.
I'm sure there are a lot of "solutions" that we could come up with, but I doubt any will be implemented by FFG.
The card is here to stay, sadly.
I am not a great fan of that either. Bombs in general feel strange in this game, but the possibility to launch them forward makes the whole thing quite a bite OP.
I personally think this should be far more expensive, or not available at all.
But okay... other people just love that.
Edited by Schu81It really doesn't feel particularly unfair to me.
It might be a bit too cheap, especially in combination with seismics. But that's a fixable status.
The number of ships that can take it isn't even that high. Does it really matter if (2.0) Scurrgs can throw proton bombs around? Seems like it's mostly seismics (cheap, huge area affected) and/or Punishers (Traj Sim platform that's also a phenomenal munitions boat and jouster) that's bothering people?
Of course it should. It's fun, both using it and facing it. I play games for the challenge. This upgrade forces you to fly differently, to adapt to the current scenario. Some people are ok with that - I'm one of them.
1 hour ago, Jo Jo said:Keep the cost the same. You get a weapons disabled token when you launch.
I mean, this is a really good idea, but FFG is never going to change the text on cards in 2.0. The whole idea of 2.0 was that they could tinker with point costs finally so that they didn't ever need to issue errata to card text again.
32 minutes ago, Bad Idea Comics said:Of course it should. It's fun, both using it and facing it. I play games for the challenge. This upgrade forces you to fly differently, to adapt to the current scenario. Some people are ok with that - I'm one of them.
This is a very naive view. Do you grant that it's possible that some challenges which force the opponent to adapt can be overwhelmingly constraining, such that it gives the player an unduly strong advantage? Because if X-Wing is going to be a healthy competitive game (goodness knows 1.0 was anything but), then they game has to actively correct for all the elements that put an unfair disadvantage (read: "challenge") for their points.
It's great if people like playing against the quirky new challenge stuff on their basement tables with friends in a throwaway casual game of X-Wing. In that setting, sure, let one player fly 200pts against 400pts for the "added challenge," if the players so desire. Enjoy it! Live it up! But in a competitive game where players are traveling to events and hoping for as fair and healthy of a playing field as possible, it is possible that "challenging" stuff can be too problematic.
Trajectory Simulator and the Spacetug Tractor Array are certainly contenders.
18 minutes ago, AllWingsStandyingBy said:
I mean, this is a really good idea, but FFG is never going to change the text on cards in 2.0. The whole idea of 2.0 was that they could tinker with point costs finally so that they didn't ever need to issue errata to card text again.
Yeah... I know 
What I hate most about Trajectory Simulator is you can't really fly a Tie Swarm competitively. If you run into a list throwing bombs, you basically have no shot of winning unless your opponent screws up badly. Feels like 1.0 still.
Edited by Jo JoLol
Obviously it deserves to exist and is fine
Idk why people like pointing fingers at it when high I seems to be BASTLY more prevelent
Even redline abuses his I 5 fully modded torps FAR more than his Sims
People seem to love misattributing blame when it comes to power combos
3 minutes ago, ficklegreendice said:Lol
Obviously it deserves to exist and is fine
Idk why people like pointing fingers at it when high I seems to be BASTLY more prevelent
Even redline abuses his I 5 fully modded torps FAR more than his Sims
People seem to love misattributing blame when it comes to power combos
To me the arguments over Trajectory Sim read like an old fight from 1.0 that just popped back up because a currently strong ship can take it, even if doing so drastically reduces that ship's viability when compared to what it IS being taken with...
56 minutes ago, AllWingsStandyingBy said:
This is a very naive view. Do you grant that it's possible that some challenges which force the opponent to adapt can be overwhelmingly constraining, such that it gives the player an unduly strong advantage? Because if X-Wing is going to be a healthy competitive game (goodness knows 1.0 was anything but), then they game has to actively correct for all the elements that put an unfair disadvantage (read: "challenge") for their points.
It's great if people like playing against the quirky new challenge stuff on their basement tables with friends in a throwaway casual game of X-Wing. In that setting, sure, let one player fly 200pts against 400pts for the "added challenge," if the players so desire. Enjoy it! Live it up! But in a competitive game where players are traveling to events and hoping for as fair and healthy of a playing field as possible, it is possible that "challenging" stuff can be too problematic.
Trajectory Simulator and the Spacetug Tractor Array are certainly contenders.
Not naive, simply taking an upgrade for what it is. I can work around it. It creates an advantage for some ships. That's OK.
Frankly, it amazes me how many folks seem to see major problems when I still see none. Not truly major ones. I'm having a blast with the game, trajectory simulator and all. Rising to a challenge isn't something to be avoided - it's what makes the game fun. When you fly against me I hope you're challenged and I hope you and your list challenge me too. Otherwise, what's the point?
Really, and I've mentioned this before, I'd much rather discuss how to defeat Trajectory Simulator lists. What are people doing to overcome them? How are you using range control to your advantage? How are flankers working for you? Do you alpha strike the Traj Sim ship? What do you do against multiples? Are you seeing more Proton Bombs or Seismics with them? Lets answer those questions before we start down the path of OMFGITSOPNERFIT.
32 minutes ago, Bad Idea Comics said:Rising to a challenge isn't something to be avoided - it's what makes the game fun. When you fly against me I hope you're challenged and I hope you and your list challenge me too. Otherwise, what's the point?
Again, I feel like you are strawman-ing us here. No one is saying that X-Wing should be a game without challenges, or that challenges are not fun or cannot be enjoyed.
But we are discussing the question of whether the particular challenge Trajectory Simulator presents to certain list-archetypes is an unduly, unfairly, overly challenging disadvantage for the points that the card currently costs. Because a game that wants to be a balanced competitive game shouldn't be rife with hard-counters and silver-bullets. Because then tournaments are being decided as much, if not more, by who happens to randomly pair against whom and not by the actual decisions players are making on the table.
1 hour ago, AllWingsStandyingBy said:I mean, this is a really good idea, but FFG is never going to change the text on cards in 2.0. The whole idea of 2.0 was that they could tinker with point costs finally so that they didn't ever need to issue errata to card text again.
I do like that change, and they could handle it in the rules reference without errata to the card itself. Just make "launching" a bomb always give you a weapons disabled token, while "dropping" doesn't.
I like the idea of Trajectory Sim and it's a fun mechanic, but it also strongly suppresses other list types I consider fun (e.g. Howl swarm). Overall I'm not sure whether it's a net benefit to the game in its current form.
2 hours ago, Schu81 said:I am not a great fan of that either. Bombs in general feel strange in this game, but the possibility to launch them forward makes the whole thing quite a bite OP.
I personally think this should be far more expensive, or not available at all.
But okay... other people just love that.
I don't totally agree. Bombs and mines were always part if the Star Wars extended Universe. The X-Wing series of Books for example, though they were not heavily utilized. They were a weapons option in the X-Wing PC games as well, back in the day. So I'm ok with their inclusion. I am also a fan of how they allow a player to alter the battlefield. Such things have long been a part of a military's arsenal. But the launching of bombs I'm less comfortable with. Missiles, Torpedoes, those are things that are generally launched, but bombs, with a few notable exceptions like the dam buster bombs used in WWII, are meant to be dropped, or in the case of mines, placed. Even in Star Wars episode 8, those godawful, butt ugly bombers "Dropped" the bombs on the Dreadnaught. (They also showed lasers arcing in space, so take this with a grain of salt.)
I guess if you're going to launch bombs, then you need to stop calling them bombs and start calling them mortars.
18 minutes ago, KburgBob said:I guess if you're going to launch bombs, then you need to stop calling them bombs and start calling them mortars.
???? The irony is that dropping bombs in game doesn't reflect them actually being dropped but launched out the back of the ship with a low pressure "mortar" and Trajectory Simulator follows how bombing really works...
1 hour ago, Hiemfire said:???? The irony is that dropping bombs in game doesn't reflect them actually being dropped but launched out the back of the ship with a low pressure "mortar" and Trajectory Simulator follows how bombing really works...
In the old X-Wing PC games, the bomb would just drop and stay right were you left it. Probably not terribly realistic, but an easy to understand concept. I have to admit, I really miss those games. The ones that they came up with later for the consoles didn't "Feel" right.
When do I get bombs I can move with manuever templates?