If you put cloaking device on a small ship then swap it using cikatro (if that's allowed) how do you perform a decloak with a large base ship? Is it still a 2 speed?

Standard 1 speed boost or barrel roll, per the Rules Reference.

Just to clarify that it's a standard large base barrel roll. I've seen some debate on that issue however.

it's a boost or barrel roll as an effect (not an action, but still, it's a boost or barrel roll). the ships still follows the normal rules for resolving a boost or barrel roll, so large and medium ships definitely have to turn template sideways, using the speed one straight movement template.

if someone thinks you don't have to turn the template sideways as per normal when barrel rolling a large or medium ship, i'd love to see how they came to that conclusion using the rules as written.

6 hours ago, player2072913 said:

Just to clarify that it's a standard large base barrel roll. I've seen some debate on that issue however.

Most of the confusion was just a refusal to believe it was *supposed* to work as written.

I should know, a lot of it was me.

I've changed my mind since.

8 minutes ago, thespaceinvader said:

Most of the confusion was just a refusal to believe it was *supposed* to work as written.

I should know, a lot of it was me.

I've changed my mind since.

i'd like them to change it for medium, especially if the sith infiltrator is going to be medium base (which is a pretty fair assumption). or at least give it a ship ability that lets it decloak better.

because of happy fun times.

18 minutes ago, meffo said:

it's a boost or barrel roll as an effect (not an action, but still, it's a boost or barrel roll). the ships still follows the normal rules for resolving a boost or barrel roll, so large and medium ships definitely have to turn template sideways, using the speed one straight movement template.

if someone thinks you don't have to turn the template sideways as per normal when barrel rolling a large or medium ship, i'd love to see how they came to that conclusion using the rules as written.

Since there's an upcoming large-base ship (Darth Maul's Episode I Sith Infiltrator) that will likely have a Cloak action available to it... it's good to establish these rules in advance.

Just now, emeraldbeacon said:

Since there's an upcoming large-base ship (Darth Maul's Episode I Sith Infiltrator) that will likely have a Cloak action available to it... it's good to establish these rules in advance.

it's going to be large base!? no!!! what have you done, ffg? you have a source?

Just now, meffo said:

it's going to be large base!? no!!! what have you done, ffg? you have a source?

Only offhand observation... the base I saw for the Sith Infiltrator looked scaled to a Large size rather than Medium... though that may not be the case, upon further investigation!

hrm. ffg needs to get their scale right! i'm still a bit disgusted that the HWK is on a small base. it should be medium or even large (its larger than a firespray). i hope they fix the silencer as well, the miniature is immense!

medium base seems to fit the infiltrator best, even if it could fit on a large base as well. just looking at size numbers from wookiepedia here...

Considering that a small base decloak is double the size of a regular barrel roll then why wouldnt a medium or large base be double their regular barrel roll? A half base (width of 1 template) doubled would be a full base or length of the 1 template. Of course leave it to FFG to not full define what they mean in the rules.

23 minutes ago, Kanawolf said:

Considering that a small base decloak is double the size of a regular barrel roll then why wouldnt a medium or large base be double their regular barrel roll? A half base (width of 1 template) doubled would be a full base or length of the 1 template. Of course leave it to FFG to not full define what they mean in the rules.

Because that's not what the rules say.

The rules are clear.

On 11/3/2018 at 4:58 PM, meffo said:

i'm still a bit disgusted that the HWK is on a small base. it should be medium or even large (its larger than a firespray)

No it isn't.

Not even close.

The former stats for the HWK are disastrously wrong. It's obvious from several moments in the Jedi Knight cutscenes that the HWK isn't much bigger than an X-Wing.

FFG went to LFL for the stats, and they were given the correct value of 16m. I wouldn't rely on Wookieepedia for stats. The Moldy Crow article says 16m, and the HWK says 29m while both cite the same source as their reference. Obviously that can't be right.

The 29m length comes from the WotC version of the RPG, which was almost as notorious as the original WEG books for getting things wrong. That's also the origin of the idea of the HWK as a freighter. Again, Dark Forces and Jedi Knight don't really support that. The Crow is much more like a heavy fighter in the little we see of it in both games.

6 hours ago, GuacCousteau said:

No it isn't.

Not even close.

The former stats for the HWK are disastrously wrong. It's obvious from several moments in the Jedi Knight cutscenes that the HWK isn't much bigger than an X-Wing.

FFG went to LFL for the stats, and they were given the correct value of 16m. I wouldn't rely on Wookieepedia for stats. The Moldy Crow article says 16m, and the HWK says 29m while both cite the same source as their reference. Obviously that can't be right.

The 29m length comes from the WotC version of the RPG, which was almost as notorious as the original WEG books for getting things wrong. That's also the origin of the idea of the HWK as a freighter. Again, Dark Forces and Jedi Knight don't really support that. The Crow is much more like a heavy fighter in the little we see of it in both games.

i refuse to discuss it, since it's already been done at length in other places. lets just say i disagree. the scale varies wildly from place to place. it does seem larger than 16 meters in "the last padawan", as well as in lots of places throughout the dark forces games. it is very small for a freighter, sure, but it's still a freighter. please note that i'm well aware that it's portrayed as a lot smaller than the 29 meters from wookiepedia throughout the dark forces games as well.

i will agree to disagree. you may be right, but i hope not. this is not the place to discuss it. still going to keep my hopes up for a complete rework of this ship from FFG in the future.

thank you for your input. sorry for posting it here in the first place.

17 hours ago, thespaceinvader said:

Because that's not what the rules say.

The rules are clear.

I would argue that. The decloak say to "barrel roll using the 1 template". Not to barrel roll using the medium/large ship rules. The small ship decloak is twice that of a barrel roll, why wouldn't the larger ships have twice the sideways movement?

47 minutes ago, Wolfshead said:

I would argue that. The decloak say to "barrel roll using the 1 template". Not to barrel roll using the medium/large ship rules. The small ship decloak is twice that of a barrel roll, why wouldn't the larger ships have twice the sideways movement?

Which template do medium/large base ships use normally when they barrel roll?

And (more importantly) why should decloak have to specify that a large base ship performs a large base barrel roll? Large base ships already perform large base barrel rolls. Unless a rule somewhere says otherwise, which the decloak rule doesn't. When you read the decloak instruction (for a medium/large base ship, perform a barrel roll using the 1 speed template), the next step is to turn to the entry on barrel rolls and do what it says there (use the long edge of the template for medium/large base ships). Since nothing in the decloak rule alters the barrel roll rule for large base ships, you do what it says and use the long edge.

And, just in case any doubt lingers, a ship barrel rolling using the long edge of the 2 speed template could go further forward or backward than a ship using the long edge of the 1 speed template. The length of the template actually matters, which is why they went out of their way to specify that the 1 speed is used for large/medium decloaks.

45 minutes ago, nexttwelveexits said:

Which template do medium/large base ships use normally when they barrel roll?

And (more importantly) why should decloak have to specify that a large base ship performs a large base barrel roll? Large base ships already perform large base barrel rolls. Unless a rule somewhere says otherwise, which the decloak rule doesn't. When you read the decloak instruction (for a medium/large base ship, perform a barrel roll using the 1 speed template), the next step is to turn to the entry on barrel rolls and do what it says there (use the long edge of the template for medium/large base ships). Since nothing in the decloak rule alters the barrel roll rule for large base ships, you do what it says and use the long edge.

And, just in case any doubt lingers, a ship barrel rolling using the long edge of the 2 speed template could go further forward or backward than a ship using the long edge of the 1 speed template. The length of the template actually matters, which is why they went out of their way to specify that the 1 speed is used for large/medium decloaks.

Cause Fantasy Flight specializes in writing rules that are terrible? If that was the case, then why not write it as Med/Large ships perform a standard barrel roll for their size?

3 minutes ago, Wolfshead said:

Cause Fantasy Flight specializes in writing rules that are terrible? If that was the case, then why not write it as Med/Large ships perform a standard barrel roll for their size?

To keep it consistent with the way the rest of the decloak rules are written.

6 hours ago, Wolfshead said:

I would argue that. The decloak say to "barrel roll using the 1 template". Not to barrel roll using the medium/large ship rules. The small ship decloak is twice that of a barrel roll, why wouldn't the larger ships have twice the sideways movement?

So you look at the rules for barrel rolling and they tell you what to do with that template. Which has a distinction between small and medium/large ships.

It's clear.

Then why not just have the small base cloak just be a standard barrel roll then of a 1 template instead of a 2 template? I guess someone should ask them just in case it becomes more prevalent.

Because they want the small bases to move more than the large.

8 hours ago, Wolfshead said:

I would argue that. The decloak say to "barrel roll using the 1 template". Not to barrel roll using the medium/large ship rules. The small ship decloak is twice that of a barrel roll, why wouldn't the larger ships have twice the sideways movement?

ok - i understand that you don't like it, but there is no other way to barrel roll a medium/large base ship in the rules. if the intention was to barrel roll any other way than the rules reference describes, it would have been stated.

2 hours ago, Kanawolf said:

Then why not just have the small base cloak just be a standard barrel roll then of a 1 template instead of a 2 template? I guess someone should ask them just in case it becomes more prevalent.

why? because that's how the rules were written. if you want to know why they were written in this way, i suggest you turn your question to the development team instead of asking the community.

59 minutes ago, meffo said:

Then why not just have the small base cloak just be a standard barrel roll then of a 1 template instead of a 2 template? I guess someone should ask them just in case it becomes more prevalent.

May be because cloacking an small ship is easier than cloacking a big ship? So, the big ship cannot hide his position too much.

If you want a technical explanation ?

Message sent guess will see ?