Hi there,

Not sure if anyone else experienced the same, but the range 0-2 critical hits seem to wreak havoc on a party’s armors, and fast. It’s quite easy and standard to be hit with a severity 3-5 crit, which the Fitness roll reduces oftentimes to the most “harmless” range... but let it happen twice and the suit of armor is ruined.

Does it seem right? Is armor to be considered a consumable, that PC can easily replenish in friendly territory, like arrows? Or should it be considered commonplace to use the Smithing skill out in the field (I.e. not in a forge) for easy equipment maintenance and repairs?

These armors just seem a bit fragile as things stand...

I was mentioning this to a buddy, and came to solution for how to handle it, thought i could share it.

Plate armor is supposed to be an heirloom that's passed on from one generation to the next several times. It should definitely not be fragile.

Just now, nameless ronin said:

Plate armor is supposed to be an heirloom that's passed on from one generation to the next several times. It should definitely not be fragile.

I know, right? But now, even if you make it durable, it’s wasted after three lucky goons land a hit with two opportunities...

On the other hand, you can take as many crippling blows as you want and die in a perfectly pristine armor ?

I was pretty sure that people were supposed to be doing in-field maintenance with smithing during downtime. It's a TN1 Smithing(Earth) to remove Damaged.

I'd also say that destroyed doesn't mean reduced to flinders, just not useful currently, the rules suggest that you could use a destroyed weapon as an improvised weapon, if the GM approves. So, if there's a gash in the front of your armour, meaning people can just stab you in the gap, it's destroyed. There's no rule, but I'd say that a TN3 Smithing(Earth) could remove destroyed, unless there were specific circumstances (it was thrown into a volcano).

I don't see a problem, it is a narrative game. Just invent a rule that works at your table.

Yeah, field maintenance seems to be the way to go - assuming access to only a portable tool kit is enough for this type of work (possibly adjusting the TN if the tools are less than adequate).

Still seems way too easy to damage a set of armor. I’d probably wave this effect if the attack that inflicted the crit is obviously too weak. A goblin throws a stick at a proud Hida in lacquered armor and lands two opportunities? The damage does not even exceed the resistance of the armor and the Hida shrugs it off without even noticing? No way the armor is damaged.

A knife cutting the ropes that hold the breastplate together, now, that would be a credible instance of damaging the armor without remotely harming the wearer.

13 minutes ago, Franwax said:

Yeah, field maintenance seems to be the way to go - assuming access to only a portable tool kit is enough for this type of work (possibly adjusting the TN if the tools are less than adequate).

Still seems way too easy to damage a set of armor. I’d probably wave this effect if the attack that inflicted the crit is obviously too weak. A goblin throws a stick at a proud Hida in lacquered armor and lands two opportunities? The damage does not even exceed the resistance of the armor and the Hida shrugs it off without even noticing? No way the armor is damaged.

A knife cutting the ropes that hold the breastplate together, now, that would be a credible instance of damaging the armor without remotely harming the wearer.

thing is, if the armor doesnt get destroyed fast, the proud Hida is basically immune to critical hits (school ability)

so take that in consideration when you fix the game.

... once per round So one way to beat a Hida is to gang up on them and hope to score 2 crits in succession; the other way is just to pummel them until incapacitation and then crit (even at zero severity, this means they fall unconscious).

But yeah, they're tough; they're supposed to be! Anyway, these guys are likely to spend most of their time in Earth stance, so crit from opportunities is a remote possibility for them. And I have no problem damaging armor due to a Heartpiercing Strike.

Destroyed doesn't mean it turns into dust, it just means it is damaged enough to not be able to provide it's primary function until repaired - in case of armor, this being Physical Resistance. You can hammer it out with Smithing after combat is done, and then slap Durable on top.

40 minutes ago, Franwax said:

Yeah, field maintenance seems to be the way to go - assuming access to only a portable tool kit is enough for this type of work (possibly adjusting the TN if the tools are less than adequate).

Still seems way too easy to damage a set of armor. I’d probably wave this effect if the attack that inflicted the crit is obviously too weak. A goblin throws a stick at a proud Hida in lacquered armor and lands two opportunities? The damage does not even exceed the resistance of the armor and the Hida shrugs it off without even noticing? No way the armor is damaged.

A knife cutting the ropes that hold the breastplate together, now, that would be a credible instance of damaging the armor without remotely harming the wearer.

There are reasons why Minions are suggested to use only Opportunities options provided in their statblocks - this is one of them.

9 minutes ago, WHW said:

Destroyed doesn't mean it turns into dust, it just means it is damaged enough to not be able to provide it's primary function until repaired - in case of armor, this being Physical Resistance. You can hammer it out with Smithing after combat is done, and then slap Durable on top.

you found a rule to repair destroyed gear ?

I assume that cracked teapots are [Destroyed], as they can not perform their intended function of holding in the water. This would put routine maintenance at TN1 Earth Action that can be taken in narrative time, while repair to remove destroyed would be Earth TN3 downtime activity. That's how we reported using artisan rules during open beta and we never got corrected on that front.

4 minutes ago, WHW said:

I assume that cracked teapots are [Destroyed], as they can not perform their intended function of holding in the water. This would put routine maintenance at TN1 Earth Action that can be taken in narrative time, while repair to remove destroyed would be Earth TN3 downtime activity. That's how we reported using artisan rules during open beta and we never got corrected on that front.

seems like an efficient way to put it in words. i like it. i like "simple" fixes.

on another note, yeah, they should have done 2 betas. get the people to start grasping more of the system the second time around and nitpick a bit more on the system. but probably time/business constraint which are all too real in big companies like ffg/asmodee

On ‎11‎/‎3‎/‎2018 at 12:41 PM, WHW said:

I assume that cracked teapots are [Destroyed], as they can not perform their intended function of holding in the water. This would put routine maintenance at TN1 Earth Action that can be taken in narrative time, while repair to remove destroyed would be Earth TN3 downtime activity. That's how we reported using artisan rules during open beta and we never got corrected on that front.

This.

On ‎11‎/‎3‎/‎2018 at 11:36 AM, Franwax said:

A knife cutting the ropes that hold the breastplate together, now, that would be a credible instance of damaging the armor without remotely harming the wearer

I would wholeheartedly agree. Plate armour is essentially massive plates of solid metal held together with laces. 'Damaged' or 'destroyed' can quite realistically mean one or more of those is cut and one or more of the plates is hanging free. That's a quick and not especially challenging job to fix in a non-conflict scene, but is still enough to compromise your protection for the rest of the fight.

Thanks everyone! This helped me put some perspective around what armor damage can be and how repairs can be enacted. I still might not always apply the effect if the circumstances seem way too implausible but if it can be reasonably explained, it’s just part of the cost of doing business. And downtime maintenance does not have to be too onerous (especially seeing how easy it is to slap “Durable” on pretty much any kind of gear!).

Cheers!