9 hours ago, Captain Lackwit said:

That's just it though... Are the prequels so bad? Really honestly?

The prequels are pretty bad. The overall conception of the Clone Wars could be pretty good, even if it's different from how many fans imagined it, but the execution was horrible. The writing was terrible, the jokes had horrible delivery, and could we please just all agree to never put Hayden Christensen in a movie ever again?

Furthermore, the film lacked any subtlety whatsoever. There's one scene of a couple clones talking, and the Imperial symbol is displayed very prominently and obviously on the equipment behind them, just beating audience members over the head with the whole, "CLONES WILL MAKE WAY FOR THE EMPIRE!" message. I'm not saying the symbol can't be in the movie; but maybe we don't need to have the camera focused on it for a minute and a half?

11 hours ago, Captain Lackwit said:

yeah TLJ is understandably polarizing. I'm glad I'm on the side I am, and I'm excited to see that side grow over time, as this age of faux outrage comes to a close... But as for Rogue One...

You know what? I kind of get it. Rogue One is... Isn't all that great really. We get a lot of characters we don't really get a chance to care about, several unutilized elements, and really overall, the main thing people talk about from it is the Vader scene.

Nobody really talks about anything but the Vader scene and the space battles, because that's all fanservice stuff we love and wanted to see. Imagine if Rogue One had neither of those things! We'd be forced to talk about the far less interesting elements, like the rest of the film.

It's honestly my least favorite Star Wars film that isn't The Clone Wars... But, I don't hate it. I don't hate any Star Wars film. But out of them all, Rogue One is the least interesting to me personally.

Rogue One had a lot of great character concepts (<3 Baze & Chirrut! My Dinner with Imwe should be a film, and it's just those two in a bar talking !) and great actors, but no real plot or character development .

The movie absolutely nails the mood, the look, the feel, the texture. All of that is perfect . The rest is kind of... not bad. It's fine . I just don't love it like the rest, it doesn't capture the imagination over time like the rest.

//

Solo... one the biggest problems with Solo is that they released it in May, too soon after the most polarizing SW film, rather than in December. To quote my brother: "I would have gone to see it more than once, but the weather was nice and I wanted to do stuff outside." He went on that if it'd been released in December, when it'd been a year since the last time we saw a Star War, he'd have gone a few more times, since there isn't really anything else to do in the winter.

What else is even out this December? I mean, I love Newt Scamander, but he's not Han Solo. Meanwhile, it would have given time for TLJ controversy to have cooled somewhat. Folks just weren't hungry enough for more Star Wars yet.

13 hours ago, nikk whyte said:

Like, I get that people aren’t gonna like TLJ, but the hate solo gets is unfounded.

Get this: some people hate rogue one more than the prequels.

I mean, if it weren't for the racist Asian stereotypes in the Trade Federation, the racist Afro-Caribbean stereotypes in the Gungans, and the anti-Semetic stereotypes in Watto, I'd rate the Phantom Menace at least equal to Rogue One.

The prequels, for all their George-Lucas-Needs-An-Editor excesses (Midicholrians? Chosen Ones? 7 year old Anakin?* Politics and a plan from Palpatine which make no sense?), Episodes 2 and 3 having even less of a plot than Rogue One, went in a direction I just don't appreciate. There is a very campy, Flash Gordon vibe to everything. Very early Sci-Fi movies. It doesn't work for me. You get probably the worst performances in the career of the amazing actress Natalie Portman, because she's got nothing to worth with, and because this kind of stiffness was something George Lucas wanted. I'm grown up enough to recognize a difference between something being bad, and something being not-my-taste. A lot of nerds aren't this grown-up... just look at the hate Blizzard is getting for Diablo Infinity**... I mean, if you're not into mobile games, fine, but these entitled "adults" can't move on.

Anyhow, I love Burgers or Kale, but don't really like Hot Dogs or Asparagus. The flat affect and camp of the Prequels is just not something I enjoy. I love Cilantro, but it's the Devil's herb to a lot of folks.

* No shade on Jake Lloyd. Dude did his best, but he was a kid. That's on George Lucas and the casting directors. Jake Lloyd and Ahmed Best (who puts more into his role than anyone in the PT) have gotten far more hate than they deserve.

** I think there's a legit criticism that Diablo Infinity looks to be the first game in the Diablo franchise without a playable Black character. Diablo I in 1996 had a beautiful Avery Brooks of a Sorcerer. Diablo II in 2000 had a glorious Denzel of a Paladin and a stunning Beyonce of a Sorceress. Diablo III had, at best, Mustasfa Shakir's Bushmaster of a Witch Doctor, but still. Diablo Infinity? The only D3 class which *doesn't* make the transition is the Witch Doctor, and they include the late addition Necromancer. Having an Asian Mage in Li-Ming is good, but POC representation in Diablo has sadly gone down. I mean, the Black Paladin was literally replaced by a White Crusader.

19 minutes ago, theBitterFig said:

There is a very campy, Flash Gordon vibe to everything. Very early Sci-Fi movies.

No, no. The movie featured Command er Cody, not Command o Cody. Completely different character.

12 hours ago, The Penguin UK said:

Really? All I'm seeing is more and more people disliking it. AT for all the comments people had about prequels and TFA being bad, the failure of Solo and the cancellation of projects is a direct result of TLJ backlash.

Regardless, it was a terrible movie and I'm glad I'm on the side I am.

Hahaha. Yeah, Empire Strikes Back was terrible too wasn't it?

11 hours ago, JJ48 said:

The prequels are pretty bad. The overall conception of the Clone Wars could be pretty good, even if it's different from how many fans imagined it, but the execution was horrible. The writing was terrible, the jokes had horrible delivery, and could we please just all agree to never put Hayden Christensen in a movie ever again?

Furthermore, the film lacked any subtlety whatsoever. There's one scene of a couple clones talking, and the Imperial symbol is displayed very prominently and obviously on the equipment behind them, just beating audience members over the head with the whole, "CLONES WILL MAKE WAY FOR THE EMPIRE!" message. I'm not saying the symbol can't be in the movie; but maybe we don't need to have the camera focused on it for a minute and a half?

lol what the **** are you talking about?

11 hours ago, theBitterFig said:

Rogue One had a lot of great character concepts (<3 Baze & Chirrut! My Dinner with Imwe should be a film, and it's just those two in a bar talking !) and great actors, but no real plot or character development .

The movie absolutely nails the mood, the look, the feel, the texture. All of that is perfect . The rest is kind of... not bad. It's fine . I just don't love it like the rest, it doesn't capture the imagination over time like the rest.

//

Solo... one the biggest problems with Solo is that they released it in May, too soon after the most polarizing SW film, rather than in December. To quote my brother: "I would have gone to see it more than once, but the weather was nice and I wanted to do stuff outside." He went on that if it'd been released in December, when it'd been a year since the last time we saw a Star War, he'd have gone a few more times, since there isn't really anything else to do in the winter.

What else is even out this December? I mean, I love Newt Scamander, but he's not Han Solo. Meanwhile, it would have given time for TLJ controversy to have cooled somewhat. Folks just weren't hungry enough for more Star Wars yet.

I mean, if it weren't for the racist Asian stereotypes in the Trade Federation, the racist Afro-Caribbean stereotypes in the Gungans, and the anti-Semetic stereotypes in Watto, I'd rate the Phantom Menace at least equal to Rogue One.

The prequels, for all their George-Lucas-Needs-An-Editor excesses (Midicholrians? Chosen Ones? 7 year old Anakin?* Politics and a plan from Palpatine which make no sense?), Episodes 2 and 3 having even less of a plot than Rogue One, went in a direction I just don't appreciate. There is a very campy, Flash Gordon vibe to everything. Very early Sci-Fi movies. It doesn't work for me. You get probably the worst performances in the career of the amazing actress Natalie Portman, because she's got nothing to worth with, and because this kind of stiffness was something George Lucas wanted. I'm grown up enough to recognize a difference between something being bad, and something being not-my-taste. A lot of nerds aren't this grown-up... just look at the hate Blizzard is getting for Diablo Infinity**... I mean, if you're not into mobile games, fine, but these entitled "adults" can't move on.

Anyhow, I love Burgers or Kale, but don't really like Hot Dogs or Asparagus. The flat affect and camp of the Prequels is just not something I enjoy. I love Cilantro, but it's the Devil's herb to a lot of folks.

* No shade on Jake Lloyd. Dude did his best, but he was a kid. That's on George Lucas and the casting directors. Jake Lloyd and Ahmed Best (who puts more into his role than anyone in the PT) have gotten far more hate than they deserve.

** I think there's a legit criticism that Diablo Infinity looks to be the first game in the Diablo franchise without a playable Black character. Diablo I in 1996 had a beautiful Avery Brooks of a Sorcerer. Diablo II in 2000 had a glorious Denzel of a Paladin and a stunning Beyonce of a Sorceress. Diablo III had, at best, Mustasfa Shakir's Bushmaster of a Witch Doctor, but still. Diablo Infinity? The only D3 class which *doesn't* make the transition is the Witch Doctor, and they include the late addition Necromancer. Having an Asian Mage in Li-Ming is good, but POC representation in Diablo has sadly gone down. I mean, the Black Paladin was literally replaced by a White Crusader.

So regarding Rogue One... Yeah, the concepts are good. It does nail the feel and everything, but you're dead on. Not a lot of development and such.

As for SOLO's release date, yeah, it was a stupid, stupid time to release it. I don't know where they got the idea that that was a good idea at all. "Hey, whether or not it was good or bad, let's release a Star Wars movie that, while actually very good to perfectly fine, will not do well in light of a movie that is EXTREMELY polarizing! That's smart!" said like, nobody ever..? Poor SOLO. Suffered so, so so **** hard in NO way that it deserved at all...

As for the stereotypes... Look, all these years later, I still don't draw those connections. Yeah I've seen them pointed out but I just go, "Uh-huh. No, these are aliens from different worlds. We should probably see them that way."

I mean.

It's pretty racist to see Watto as jewish just because he has a giant nose and likes money. I really feel like there's more problem in seeing the stereotype, honestly.

As for a flash gordon vibe... Eh? I guess? But, I don't think so. As for one drawing grown-up comparisons... Can't say I jive with that tbh. I don't think it's very adult to belittle others, even if there's no error in saying a lot of nerds do indeed need to grow the **** up in general. I'm also sorta' with the Diablo guys- despite HATING blizzard and not giving a **** about Diablo, I'm like, "Okay that's kinda' not cool, they want something for PC and you're ignoring a market that's there? Cool, great. OG fans no longer good enough confirmed. :/"

Which hey, might sound ironic coming from somebody who loves the ST I guess. But at 26 it's not like I'm a young new fan.

8 minutes ago, Captain Lackwit said:

But at 26 it's not like I'm a young new fa  n

? ? 26 is young when you take into account that the tail end of the Baby Boomers were just becoming parents when ANH was released...

49 minutes ago, Hiemfire said:

? ? 26 is young when you take into account that the tail end of the Baby Boomers were just becoming parents when ANH was released...

Yeah, yeah, but let's not gatekeep here.

I predate the prequels. I'm a veteran fan by those standards.

4 minutes ago, Captain Lackwit said:

Yeah, yeah, but let's not gatekeep here.

Oh I'm not... You just made me chuckle is all.

On 11/3/2018 at 10:59 AM, HammerGibbens said:

PUT ? POE ? DAMERON ? IN ? A ? TIE/SF!

Hopefully Finn gunner slot too.

13 hours ago, theBitterFig said:

What else is even out this December? I mean, I love Newt Scamander, but he's not Han Solo. Meanwhile, it would have given time for TLJ controversy to have cooled somewhat. Folks just weren't hungry enough for more Star Wars yet.

Whats out in December? Well pretty sure that Bumblebee (Transformers ET edition), Deadpool 2 (The heavily edited PG-13 cut for the kiddies), and lets be honest the big one which is why Solo is no where near December Mary Poppins Returns.

Lets look at Disney's line up for the year starting at May.

May: Solo

June: Incredibles 2

July: Ant-Man and Wasp

August: Christopher Robin

September: ---

October: ---

November: Nutcracker (Considering the week it came out it could technically be considered an October release), Ralph Breaks the Internet

December: Mary Poppins

Bob Iger has already gone on record as saying he wanted to just get it out there and that he pushed it, likely just wanting that nightmare of a production to end. But generally Disney doesn't want its product competing, May was a horrible place to drop Solo with Infinity War still raking money in from late April and then having Deadpool 2 hit and dropping the film on a notoriously bad weekend but Disney/LFL probably expected that the Star Wars brand could still sell it well enough to be profitable. June they weren't going to drop Solo, not with a highly anticipated Incredibles sequel, July was more Marvel and one that didn't do all that much better than the first film last I checked, and then August was a Disney live action adaptation/sequel flick so their summer was pretty packed. September is not a great time to drop a family film with school starting back up, and October generally isn't all that great of a release window but would likely have been the best for Solo as there would be literally nothing out there competing with it aside from Venom. November has Nutcracker and a Disney animated film coming out, one at the tail end of October/beginning of November and one at the end of November so that month was out. And then Mary Poppins which is something that Disney is clearly expecting to do very well and is their winter film for the year. Had Mary Poppins not come out then they could have likely slotted Solo there.

3 hours ago, Captain Lackwit said:

Hahaha. Yeah, Empire Strikes Back was terrible too wasn't it?

You've lost me...

3 hours ago, The Penguin UK said:

You've lost me...

The Empire Strikes Back met some pretty cold *** reception when it first came out. I imagine that with social media it would have been panned at least half as hard as TLJ.

But now look. ESB is widely regarded as the best Star Wars film period. Despite being wholly and completely different from the first.

Sit on that thought for a while and get back to me on it in a few years.

2 hours ago, Captain Lackwit said:

The Empire Strikes Back met some pretty cold *** reception when it first came out. I imagine that with social media it would have been panned at least half as hard as TLJ.

But now look. ESB is widely regarded as the best Star Wars film period. Despite being wholly and completely different from the first.

Sit on that thought for a while and get back to me on it in a few years.

Haven't seen much criticism of TLJ for being too different from TFA though. It's possible that some of its aspects will age well (Luke being a cynic, for instance), but I doubt some of the others will, like the overlong Canto Bight section, the weaponized hyperspace, and the mixed messages ("Sacrifice yourself to save your friends! Wait, we don't do that! No, we do!").

The prequels were criticized for being different, but I didn't mind that; the problem was the script. TPM was a decent idea horribly executed, TFA was an unimaginative idea well executed. TLJ was an uneven mess with some genuinly great moments and a lot of "wha?"

20 minutes ago, Okapi said:

Haven't seen much criticism of TLJ for being too different from TFA though. It's possible that some of its aspects will age well (Luke being a cynic, for instance), but I doubt some of the others will (the overlong Canto Bight section, the weaponized hyperspace, the mixes messages ("Sacrifice yourself to save your friends! Wait, we don't do that! No, we do!").

The prequels were criticized for being different, but I didn't mind that; the problem was the script. TPM was a decent idea horribly executed, TFA was an unimaginative idea well executed. TLJ was an uneven mess with some genuinly great moments and a lot of "wha?"

One of my fundamental issues with the new trilogy is that it isn't all that interesting of an era, with it just repeating the small band of rebels vs the big empire. The prequels had bad/stilted writing and bad direction both which are Lucas' fault but at least the time was interesting to explore, especially the clone wars which offered different stories than what the OT would provide.

Down the line it will be less of an issue but the fact is that those who have read the old EU/Legends also have something to compare the ST to, and while some things are better some are worse. Of course the books quality generally depended on the writer but so far I generally find that so far I prefer the overall shape of the old EU. I'll give Episode 9 a chance but if I don't care for it and the ST overall I'll probably just head cannon post ROTJ stuff with a mix of the old timeline and new, with the new characters, and ship designs.

2 hours ago, Captain Lackwit said:

The Empire Strikes Back met some pretty cold *** reception when it first came out. I imagine that with social media it would have been panned at least half as hard as TLJ.

But now look. ESB is widely regarded as the best Star Wars film period. Despite being wholly and completely different from the first.

Sit on that thought for a while and get back to me on it in a few years.

That may be true. I happen to think that ESB is the weakest of the original triology. But the reasons for them being poorly recieved are likely different.

TLJ subverts character arcs and has non-sensical ideas and plot devices. It has unsubtle and confused messages.

Empire may have been different, but it wasn't bad - it didn't destroyed the established work from the previous movie. TLJ did.

You're allowed to like it, I'm glad you did. But I think there's a lot of suggestion that Disney are scrabbling to fix what proved to be a bit of a mess.

For ****s' sake, who allowed this fun thread to become faction-driven pettiness...again??????? "I hate it when he does that..."

Back to topic, I'd like to see Wedge in a Rebel Delta 7 and Sarkli in an imperial LAAT. Rebel Strike 4 life!

The only issue I see with cross-faction builds is that it forces people to buy out-of-faction.

23 minutes ago, JJ48 said:

The only issue I see with cross-faction builds is that it forces people to buy out-of-faction.

True, but quick builds are more casual and posted online so I think it would be friendly to proxying. I love when they make lore appropriate or fun builds like the Chewie loaded falcon, the door gun U-Wing, Battle of Yavin Luke and would like to see more. Heck, I'd like to see multiple build options for movie and show characters to replicate scenes from them. So far the escalation games I've had the chance to play have been really great so more of that please FFG.

3 minutes ago, Animewarsdude said:

True, but quick builds are more casual and posted online so I think it would be friendly to proxying. I love when they make lore appropriate or fun builds like the Chewie loaded falcon, the door gun U-Wing, Battle of Yavin Luke and would like to see more. Heck, I'd like to see multiple build options for movie and show characters to replicate scenes from them. So far the escalation games I've had the chance to play have been really great so more of that please FFG.

I haven't actually tried Escalation yet. I'll have to see if anyone in my group is interested.

34 minutes ago, JJ48 said:

I haven't actually tried Escalation yet. I'll have to see if anyone in my group is interested.

Its great fun if you can get a group of 3 to 4 to do it. I'd recommend only doing a game starting with 2 threat and then going to 3 instead of 2-3-4 since there aren't tons of 4 threats ship options and it helps make the game not too long. Doing a 2-3 threat game also means you can even have it where you fly the same ship and level it up to a 3 threat one when it is destroyed, which again helps speed things up a little.

1 minute ago, Animewarsdude said:

2-3-4 since there aren't tons of 4 threats

2 x threat 2 should = 1 threat 4.

2 minutes ago, Animewarsdude said:

Its great fun if you can get a group of 3 to 4 to do it. I'd recommend only doing a game starting with 2 threat and then going to 3 instead of 2-3-4 since there aren't tons of 4 threats ship options and it helps make the game not too long. Doing a 2-3 threat game also means you can even have it where you fly the same ship and level it up to a 3 threat one when it is destroyed, which again helps speed things up a little.

Does it have to be a single ship, or for 4 could you spawn a pair of 2s?

12 minutes ago, JJ48 said:

Does it have to be a single ship, or for 4 could you spawn a pair of 2s?

Not sure, in all our games we've only done the one ship, so that everyone only has the one ship. Not sure if that decision was made to keep the quicker pace to the game by only focusing on planning one ship's dial or if it was a case of keeping things more even with everyone only having one ship. The rules don't dissuade doing a pair of ships, but the one in the rulebook also is focused on a 1 on 1 game rather than a 3 or 4 free for all which I find a bit more fun.

Wedge and Hobbie as TIE Fighter pilots for Empire.

7 hours ago, Okapi said:

Haven't seen much criticism of TLJ for being too different from TFA though. It's possible that some of its aspects will age well (Luke being a cynic, for instance), but I doubt some of the others will, like the overlong Canto Bight section, the weaponized hyperspace, and the mixed messages ("Sacrifice yourself to save your friends! Wait, we don't do that! No, we do!").

The prequels were criticized for being different, but I didn't mind that; the problem was the script. TPM was a decent idea horribly executed, TFA was an unimaginative idea well executed. TLJ was an uneven mess with some genuinly great moments and a lot of "wha?"

But it IS different from a lot of Star Wars films we've seen, that's for sure. I can agree that Canto Bight is definitely a bit long of a detour.

7 hours ago, The Penguin UK said:

That may be true. I happen to think that ESB is the weakest of the original triology. But the reasons for them being poorly recieved are likely different.

TLJ subverts character arcs and has non-sensical ideas and plot devices. It has unsubtle and confused messages.

Empire may have been different, but it wasn't bad - it didn't destroyed the established work from the previous movie. TLJ did.

You're allowed to like it, I'm glad you did. But I think there's a lot of suggestion that Disney are scrabbling to fix what proved to be a bit of a mess.

jesus christ

I am not usually at a loss for words but, alright.

7 hours ago, player3010587 said:

For ****s' sake, who allowed this fun thread to become faction-driven pettiness...again??????? "I hate it when he does that..."

Back to topic, I'd like to see Wedge in a Rebel Delta 7 and Sarkli in an imperial LAAT. Rebel Strike 4 life!

It happens every **** time . Believe me I know I'm not innocent here either, though what gets me is that I feel barely allowed to like something.

I know it's been said before, but we need to say it again! Maarek Stele in a gunboat! That ability off a Proton Torp would be epic madness, not to mention how good I5 would be for a boat!