I see so much anti-vehicle talk everytime people talk lists.

Are they really that bad, not counting bikes.

The only real stinker is the T-47. The AT-RT's configurations are pretty versatile, and with proper support the AT-ST can make a real mess of things (Although the activation spam craze works against it). And the T-47 can still do some work if you support it- It's just <1.5 speeder bikes for almost twice their cost.

Bikes and ATRTs are solid platforms for each faction, with the others requiring a little more work to make them worth their points. Though lately it's far easier to make the ATST a threat, especially with it taking Day 1 at gencon.

I personally think the astromechs will make the T47s viable again. If you have two of your squads outfitted with these guys, you can either keep them close or give them a decent spread so your T47 is picking up health every turn. Either as healing outposts say range 3-4 of each other, or keep them close and have them drop two health on the T47 per turn if it's just doing donuts and shooting.

Of course that assumes that's how the astromech works!

1 hour ago, jocke01 said:

I see so much anti-vehicle talk everytime people talk lists.

Are they really that bad, not counting bikes.

No they are actually a viable choice, its the usual rock paper scissors, at the moment its all about activations as the more activations you have the more you can "generally" score objectives the majority of which are not vehicle friendly, however as a result impact weapons (other than the DLT) are being cut from lists, which if you cut too much is going to leave people vulnerable to .... you guessed it... vehicles.

So it all comes down to your gaming groups current meta. There is no denying though that mathematically, on paper, the T47 is one of the least effective units, but can be a key unit that can bring you a victory, especially if everhone isnt expecting armor and forget to bring their more serious impact weapons.

I dont think they are bad, it just depends on the list and how they are utilized.

The general feel of them being "bad" is most likely due to the fact that we really don't have a selection of vehicles available at the moment while having a decent assortment of infantry/troopers available and on the way (Palp, Chewie, Royal Guards, Wookie Warriors, Specialists)

The biggest thing holding vehicles back is they cannot usually contribute directly to the win condition (meeting objectives). Breakthrough is the sole exception. (Edit: brought to my attention key positions can be done with vehicles as well).

Activation spam is incredibly powerful in many scenarios, and is hard to counter without doing the same thing.

That said, I refuse to play the game of buying excess of today’s things to do the full spam. I still play the AT-ST, though my tactics with it have evolved from all purpose anti-everything to a dedicated area cleaner.

When I suspect the meta is going to heavily favor trooper units over armor, I tend to run the AT-ST with the grenade launcher. I either aim and shoot, or if I’ve gotten Veers into position for him to spot, move + shoot on the AT-ST.

Those trooper spams are much less exciting when I delete one every turn, while troopers can move into objective spots.

I really think that terrain makes a big difference for vehicles. Giving the t-47 lots of terrain to zoom over and around can help quite a bit.

Its the AtSt time to shine with all the min sniper spam about

As weird as this may sound, I feel that snipers are a huge buff to vehicles. I have been playing an ATST, Veers, 10 activation list, and the thing is nasty. Having 3 snipers to up the activation count on an ATST list is huge, and it's hard for opponents with spam because they don't out activate me too much, and once the ATST starts deleting units, I gain the activation advantage. Thing is near invincible too and can dominate a central objective. The T47 is objectively really poor, but I'd say Bikes, ATRTs, and ATSTs are all very viable. Just try not to have less than 10 activations!

@ScummyRebel Minor note, vehicles can also help with the objectives in Key Positions, since it also only checks for "unit leaders" without a "trooper" requirement.

6 hours ago, Squark said:

The only real stinker is the T-47. The AT-RT's configurations are pretty versatile, and with proper support the AT-ST can make a real mess of things (Although the activation spam craze works against it). And the T-47 can still do some work if you support it- It's just <1.5 speeder bikes for almost twice their cost.

And for a side that doesn’t have speeder bikes...and it has armor, so anything without impact is unlikely to cause any damage at all. ?

I used to think this way about the vehicles, but a recent re-try on the AT-ST and I believe differently. I was wrecking with the AT-ST. It was a ton of fun too. I have recently lost to a nice dual AT-RT list paired with 2 snipers. This game is balanced! Except T-47, maybe we’ll see a huge comeback. More of a start really lol

I feel like somehow FFG knew when everything was going to come out and they planned the entire release? Maybe T-47s will be in the “meta” during Christmas because of all the melee coming in these next few waves...

The at-rt is good. I find that Ive wiped out entire squads in one roll against stormtroopers. Ive never tried it against rebels but they die even quicker. Its area denial. Troopers won’t go near it if they can. You support it will infantry and it will shine

1 hour ago, lukecook said:

I used to think this way about the vehicles, but a recent re-try on the AT-ST and I believe differently. I was wrecking with the AT-ST. It was a ton of fun too. I have recently lost to a nice dual AT-RT list paired with 2 snipers. This game is balanced! Except T-47, maybe we’ll see a huge comeback. More of a start really lol

I feel like somehow FFG knew when everything was going to come out and they planned the entire release? Maybe T-47s will be in the “meta” during Christmas because of all the melee coming in these next few waves...

Seems likely, imagine Palpatine with 4 units of imperial guards (or Vader with 3). That’s a brutal charging melee force.

There’s a part of me that wants to run Vader and Emporer together with 2 x 4 Guards (it fits... just), so you can have 4xmove in a turn with the guards to run across the table and hit people in the face turn 1!

11 hours ago, OccasionallyCorrect said:

I personally think the astromechs will make the T47s viable again. If you have two of your squads outfitted with these guys, you can either keep them close or give them a decent spread so your T47 is picking up health every turn. Either as healing outposts say range 3-4 of each other, or keep them close and have them drop two health on the T47 per turn if it's just doing donuts and shooting.

Of course that assumes that's how the astromech works!

The only problem with that is that the T-47 moves at 3 (not to mention the size of its base) and the astromech unit would move at 2, so hard to keep up and heal. Assuming the astromech works that way. ?

Another big problem with vehicles is the discrepancy in units with Impact in the different factions. The Imperials get more Impact weaponry than the rebels at better prices. Having the ubiquitous and cheap DLT-19 on stormtroopers makes armoured vehicles not so tough on an opposing side. Though the AT-ST does ok against another imperial list (due to its massive 11 health), it does much better against rebels. The AT-RT cannot make such a claim reaching the end of its health quickly. The AT-RT could really get helped by the astromech, but the only unfortunate thing is that the AT-ST could as well (they don’t move much). The inclusion of an astromech on the imperial side could make the AT-ST near unkillable, at least until the unit healing it is killed.

*And before I get called a whiny Rebel player, I play both sides. ☯️

5 hours ago, Derrault said:

And for a side that doesn’t have speeder bikes...and it has armor, so anything without impact is unlikely to cause any damage at all. ?

My point was it's incredibly inefficient. Like I said, it can still good work in the right circumstances; It was a nightmare in the hands of one of my opponents during the early days, but it was pretty obvious she could have wreaked even more havoc with two units of bikes. Yes, the Rebels don't have speeder bikes, but they do have other good units, so taking an inneficient one in lieu of some of them is a big risk.

As for armor... The only list I can think of that lacks the impact and crit generation to deal with a T-47 is a Wonder Twins build using flamethrower AT-RTs (or naked AT-RTs). Most other lists will still have enough impact to down a T-47 unless it spends the first few turns hiding. And Luke is a better late game cleaner than the Airspeeder.

7 hours ago, JediPartisan said:

The only problem with that is that the T-47 moves at 3 (not to mention the size of its base) and the astromech unit would move at 2, so hard to keep up and heal. Assuming the astromech works that way. ?

Another big problem with vehicles is the discrepancy in units with Impact in the different factions. The Imperials get more Impact weaponry than the rebels at better prices. Having the ubiquitous and cheap DLT-19 on stormtroopers makes armoured vehicles not so tough on an opposing side. Though the AT-ST does ok against another imperial list (due to its massive 11 health), it does much better against rebels. The AT-RT cannot make such a claim reaching the end of its health quickly. The AT-RT could really get helped by the astromech, but the only unfortunate thing is that the AT-ST could as well (they don’t move much). The inclusion of an astromech on the imperial side could make the AT-ST near unkillable, at least until the unit healing it is killed.

*And before I get called a whiny Rebel player, I play both sides. ☯️

If you put astromechs in two squads and have they spread around the table, you cover enough area to give the T47 a couple of places it can choose to stop since it can cover so much of the board. Two full moving actions and a shooting actions should be enough to keep you in range. Now you're strafing back and forth while picking up a single health per turn. Who knows, it could work.

I think the thing to keep in mind about vehicles is that they are Support units. There is a reason that Corps units are the ones with the minimum requirement. Something else to keep in mind is that Legion is less than a year old. If FFG maintains their current release schedule we should be getting more units, that haven't been announced yet, in February and March. At that point we will have a game that has been out for a year and will look a lot different than it did last April a week after release.

On 11/3/2018 at 9:56 PM, NeonWolf said:

I think the thing to keep in mind about vehicles is that they are Support units. There is a reason that Corps units are the ones with the minimum requirement. Something else to keep in mind is that Legion is less than a year old. If FFG maintains their current release schedule we should be getting more units, that haven't been announced yet, in February and March. At that point we will have a game that has been out for a year and will look a lot different than it did last April a week after release.

It was strongly implied we won't be

Just now, Tirion said:

It was strongly implied we won't be

We won't be what? Receiving more units after the Specialists?

2 hours ago, NeonWolf said:

2 hours ago, Tirion said:

It was strongly implied we won't be

We won't be what? Receiving more units after the Specialists?

I think at minimum we need an extra heavy choice for each faction before they focus on clone wars stuff for a while. Thinking the DF.9 for rebels (the other Hoth turret) http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/DF.9

and maybe that hover tank from R1 for imperials.

7 hours ago, NeonWolf said:

We won't be what? Receiving more units after the Specialists?

Getting monthly releases. But no one was sure if they meant a calendar year or just until the end of 2018

1 hour ago, Tirion said:

Getting monthly releases. But no one was sure if they meant a calendar year or just until the end of 2018

I was under the impression, from all of the various developer videos, that they had two years (24 months) worth of monthly releases already planned. Where are you getting the impression that isn't the case?

It was something from way back when at this point. Couldn't even tell you what exactly.

If 2 years is the case that is awesome!