3 minutes ago, Daeglan said:It does matter when my point is screwing up so bad you need your friends to save you. Being used by a bad guy does not count as being saved by a friend.
Meanwhile, she was convinced that he was going to turn to the light, and thus would be an ally.
You asked when she needed the help of others to escape peril. This is an instance when she did.
2 minutes ago, Daeglan said:It does matter when my point is screwing up so bad you need your friends to save you. Being used by a bad guy does not count as being saved by a friend.
I guess this boils down to personal interpretation. Despite their biological relationship, in my mind Vader can in no way be considered Luke's friend.
Consider: all of Vader's actions thus far aren't friendly in the least
9 minutes ago, Daeglan said:It does matter when my point is screwing up so bad you need your friends to save you. Being used by a bad guy does not count as being saved by a friend.
I would argue that it is even worst... I mean, just how bad did you really screw up if the only way to survive is by getting used by the bad guy?
13 minutes ago, Daeglan said:And how much time is between A New Hope and Empire Strikes back? He was trained on some stuff by Ben on the Falcon and we know more time happened that we saw in the movie. So the Progression works. **** even Ezra gets a better learning the force arc than Rey.
Three years, but given that most, if not all of that time was spent as a part of the Alliance military, that doesn’t leave a lot of time for training in the Force now, does it.
11 minutes ago, Daeglan said:I guess you werent paying attention when it is quite obvious that Kylo used to her. He didnt save her to save her. He kept her from dying for personal gain. Whereas Vader Sacrificed himself to save Luke. See the difference?
Whether Kyle did it in order to use her is irrelevant. He still saved her life.
9 minutes ago, Nytwyng said:Did I say he didn’t use her?
She would have died without his action. That’s the very definition of saving her.
Exactly.
8 minutes ago, Daeglan said:that doesnt excuse bad writing. Lazy Storytelling.
It’s no bad or lazy writing, no worse than anything GL did in the OT or PT.
6 minutes ago, Daeglan said:It does matter when my point is screwing up so bad you need your friends to save you. Being used by a bad guy does not count as being saved by a friend.
No, it doesn’t. It doesn’t matter at all who saved her or why she was saved. All that matters is she was saved by someone else.
3 minutes ago, Nytwyng said:And not liking it doesn’t make it bad writing. It’s no lazier than anything else in the franchise (in particular, the examples you’re holding up as how to do it properly).
Precisely.
7 minutes ago, JorArns said:I guess this boils down to personal interpretation. Despite their biological relationship, in my mind Vader can in no way be considered Luke's friend.
Consider: all of Vader's actions thus far aren't friendly in the least
no but he did sacrifice himself to save Luke. and I didnt bring up Vader as an example. I brought Up Leia saving luke on Bespin and Han saving Luke on Hoth,
3 minutes ago, Tramp Graphics said:Three years, but given that most, if not all of that time was spent as a part of the Alliance military, that doesn’t leave a lot of time for training in the Force now, does it.
Whether Kyle did it in order to use her is irrelevant. He still saved her life.
Exactly.
It’s no bad or lazy writing, no worse than anything GL did in the OT or PT.
No, it doesn’t. It doesn’t matter at all who saved her or why she was saved. All that matters is she was saved by someone else.
Precisely.
I dont seem you recall saying the the Prequels were good writing.
1 minute ago, Daeglan said:I dont seem you recall saying the the Prequels were good writing.
Personally, I liked them, even Jar Jar. Are they perfect? Not by a long shot, but I still enjoyed them thoroughly.
1 hour ago, Nytwyng said:And not liking it doesn’t make it bad writing. It’s no lazier than anything else in the franchise (in particular, the examples you’re holding up as how to do it properly).
No but doing things that dont make sense does make it bad writing. For example Finn and Rose were able to leave the fleet to find a hacker. But they dont contact anyone to A. get fuel. B. get help. Holdo Doesnt tell Poe the plan which results in a mutiny. They Resistance Sacrifices their entire fleet to end up on a planet to be able to call for help... So what that tells me is the flagship doesnt have long range communications? WTF? All the threadfs that JJ left in EP VII for the next movie were effectively discarded. In none of the movie or the books do they explain how we go from return of the Jedi to the Force Awakens. Who is Snoke? Where did the First Order come from? How the **** did they get a feet so big they could effectively conquer everything with no one noticing? Why did the fleet not do what the Rebels used to do all the time scatter then regroup why didnt the fleet immediately jump out when the first order jumped in? The A wings, and X-wing and those bombers have hyper drives... there are so many actions taken by characters for plot reasons that dont make sense character wise. Leia yells at Poe for sacrificing all those shps then they turn around and do the same thing on an even bigger scale? Why didnt the First order just keep sending fighters to harass the resistance fleet.
This is all terrible writing.
3 minutes ago, Daeglan said:Holdo Doesnt tell Poe the plan which results in a mutiny.
This is all terrible writing.
Ah yes, terrible writing that the guy WHO LITERALLY JUST GOT DEMOTED FOR INSUBORDINATION doesn't get let in on the secret plan. The plan that he IMMEDIATELY leaks to the enemy when he does learn it?
20 minutes ago, jivjov said:Ah yes, terrible writing that the guy WHO LITERALLY JUST GOT DEMOTED FOR INSUBORDINATION doesn't get let in on the secret plan. The plan that he IMMEDIATELY leaks to the enemy when he does learn it?
which is terrible writing. And has them following basically the same path as Poe after they demoted him. That is bad writing.
4 minutes ago, Daeglan said:which is terrible writing. And has them following basically the same path as Poe after they demoted him. That is bad writing.
Its "terrible writing" that Poe is punished for his actions? Do you expect him to be an Ubermensch who does no wrong?
9 minutes ago, jivjov said:Its "terrible writing" that Poe is punished for his actions? Do you expect him to be an Ubermensch who does no wrong?
No it is terrible writing for them to punish him for doing the same thing they are about to do. Poe sacrificed a squadron to destroy a huge ship. Then Holdo and Company are gonna sacrifice the whole fleet to accomplish nothing. We are gonna fly to this planet to call for help and we are gonna sacrifice ALL of our capital ships to do so. None of this makes any sense militarily. I dont buy the resistance flagship not being able to make the call. That is dumb. That is bad writing. And the fact Rose and Finn were able to leave the fleet and come back unnoticed? Really? And you didnt think a refueling vessel might be a good idea while you were out? Or help
13 minutes ago, jivjov said:Its "terrible writing" that Poe is punished for his actions? Do you expect him to be an Ubermensch who does no wrong?
Apparently yes, he does expect Poe to have carte blanche to do whatever and suffer no consequences. Likely because Poe is a white male, and as such can do no wrong in Daeglan's extremely biased eyes.
Just now, Daeglan said:And the fact Rose and Finn were able to leave the fleet and come back unnoticed?
They, uh, were noticed. Rewatch the film. Holdo straight up says "What was that on sensors?" and its only because Lt. Connix is at the sensor station that they weren't immediately discovered.
It's becoming increasingly clear that you either haven't ever watched TLJ or only watched it once, and instead of citing things from the actual film you're just regurgitating points from RLM or one of the "Ruin Manbaby" twitter accounts.
Just now, jivjov said:They, uh, were noticed. Rewatch the film. Holdo straight up says "What was that on sensors?" and its only because Lt. Connix is at the sensor station that they weren't immediately discovered.
It's becoming increasingly clear that you either haven't ever watched TLJ or only watched it once, and instead of citing things from the actual film you're just regurgitating points from RLM or one of the "Ruin Manbaby" twitter accounts.
the first order is who i am talking about
And the film establishes that the smaller ships are sensor shielded from the First Order, and its not til DJ tells them to be looking for them that they do a focused scan to find them.
Maybe actually watch the film before coming back to this discussion?
And none that address the major problem. Why would the first order not be doing the kind of scan to find the smaller ships? If they can detect them that is the kind of scan you would ALWAYS be doing. And Why the **** did Finn and Rose not make the needed call while they were away? Why did they not get fuel? You keep focusing on minor elements that don't address the bad writing. And I have watched the movie multiple times. The holes get bigger and bigger if you pay attention. Because characters keep making bad decisions for plot reasons. Not character reasons.
Just now, Daeglan said:And none that address the major problem. Why would the first order not be doing the kind of scan to find the smaller ships? If they can detect them that is the kind of scan you would ALWAYS be doing. And Why the **** did Finn and Rose not make the needed call while they were away? Why did they not get fuel? You keep focusing on minor elements that don't address the bad writing. And I have watched the movie multiple times. The holes get bigger and bigger if you pay attention. Because characters keep making bad decisions for plot reasons. Not character reasons.
Huh...its almost like "Your overconfidence is your weakness" wasn't a problem unique to Palpatine. It's almost like characters don't always make the perfectly optimal decisions in all instances. If they did, now THAT would be terrible writing, because people don't always make perfectly optimal decisions.
Just now, jivjov said:Huh...its almost like "Your overconfidence is your weakness" wasn't a problem unique to Palpatine. It's almost like characters don't always make the perfectly optimal decisions in all instances. If they did, now THAT would be terrible writing, because people don't always make perfectly optimal decisions.
well except they are trying to keep them from escaping....So you are going to do something that might allow them to escape? Is that logical? There is overconfidence and then there is outright stupid. This is outright stupid.
Just now, Daeglan said:well except they are trying to keep them from escaping....So you are going to do something that might allow them to escape? Is that logical? There is overconfidence and then there is outright stupid. This is outright stupid.
And they did keep the capital ships from escaping. Congrats.
Just now, jivjov said:And they did keep the capital ships from escaping. Congrats.
And the capital ships are not the actual threat.
Just now, Daeglan said:And the capital ships are not the actual threat.
Huh, its almost like the First Order's overconfidence was their weakness.................
WATCH THE BLOODY FILM
I have watched the bloody. They make horribly bad writing decisions.
And none of your excuses change the fact the writing is terrible.
5 minutes ago, Daeglan said:I have watched the bloody. They make horribly bad writing decisions.
And none of your excuses change the fact the writing is terrible.
Except you've yet to actually point out any "terrible writing". Just endless whining that every character didn't behave perfectly optimally at all times.
Just now, jivjov said:Except you've yet to actually point out any "terrible writing". Just endless whining that every character didn't behave perfectly optimally at all times.
No. What I pointed out are things that don't make sense in character. Like we are all gonna die if we don't get out from under the thumb of the first order. So I am not going to do anything that will improve the odds. just get this random hacker who might defeat the tracking. Not gonna call for help? Not get fuel. Meanwhile Leia who had been in the Rebel Alliance for how long? Who used to have the rebel alliance scatter to avoid tracking doesn't use that trick? No they choose to sacrifice the fleet. It isn't that the choices are sub optimal. It is that they are out right stupid decisions that make no sense militarily. If someone is an admiral they should make better decisions. Add to that that Rose knows about how the tracking works but Holdo doesn't? really? I just don't buy it.